Calling all mantis shrimp experts

[FlowerMama]

ha, the video. too funny.

[Mustang Boy]

Does anyone know of another site that sells mantis shrimp along with gorgs and sponges for a decent price besides kp aquatics?

 

Check out Richard at TBSaltwater. http://tbsaltwater.com/ordering/pricelist.html

 

And have fun here in Florida on your vacation you will have a blast cruising the beaches collecting critters.

[dixie reefer]

^^Thanks! I grew up there and definitely miss it! Once my husband gets out of the army, we'll be moving back!

[dixie reefer]

Picking up this guy tonight! A local reefer found him in his lr and is just giving him to me. The tank is still cycling so I'll just throw him into one of my sumps until the cycle is done.

 

[Tamberav]

ooo bright green with bright yellow legs it looks like Nice score!

[FlowerMama]

aaw. it looks like mine!!! I love the bright green. Size?

[dixie reefer]

He's 2".

[FlowerMama]

nice! Thought it looked bigger. Do you know if it's female or male?

 

Color: Variable; green, brown, cream, solid to mottled; meral spot purple (darker in males)

Distinguishing Characters: Purple meral spot; females with small black dots over body

[dixie reefer]

I have no clue, this is the only picture the guy sent me. I'm picking it up tonight, I'll postmore pictures then.

[dixie reefer]

Lookie here!

 

[BigRed10]

Very cool, congrats

[dixie reefer]

Finally made a thread

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/340729-dixies-mantis-adventure/?p=4629013

[MrSquiggle]

Anyone here have a smithii and can share molting experience?  Tips, do's and don'ts? We believe our smitthii is preparing to molt and want to make sure we do not make any major mistakes.  Thanks in advance.

[Snow_Phoenix]

5 hours ago, MrSquiggle said:

Anyone here have a smithii and can share molting experience?  Tips, do's and don'ts? We believe our smitthii is preparing to molt and want to make sure we do not make any major mistakes.  Thanks in advance.

I used to have a smithii several years ago. With her molts, I didn't do anything special except let her eat a little bit before she closed up her burrow and vanished a week or two to molt fully. Before each molt, I noticed she would be a bit more aggressive than usual and hit anything that came near her burrow (eg. tweezers, snails etc.). So that was the only indication I received that she was going to molt.

 

The important thing is to not overfeed your mantis, because some of them have a habit of storing excess food in their burrows, where it rots and *might cause an ammonia spike. 

If your smithii closes up his/her burrow, don't shake/remove/mess with the rock she/he is in. Just let him/her be. If all goes well, you'll see him/her again very soon. If you have any fish (eg. damsels etc.) in the same tank as your smithii, feed lightly. Monitor levels - if your smithii doesn't appear after 3 weeks and there's a large ammonia/nitrate spike/major algae bloom, then he/she might have died in his/her burrow. Honestly, it's just a waiting game. Be patient - your mantis should be fine. 🙂 

[MrSquiggle]

11 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

I used to have a smithii several years ago. With her molts, I didn't do anything special except let her eat a little bit before she closed up her burrow and vanished a week or two to molt fully. Before each molt, I noticed she would be a bit more aggressive than usual and hit anything that came near her burrow (eg. tweezers, snails etc.). So that was the only indication I received that she was going to molt.

 

The important thing is to not overfeed your mantis, because some of them have a habit of storing excess food in their burrows, where it rots and *might cause an ammonia spike. 

If your smithii closes up his/her burrow, don't shake/remove/mess with the rock she/he is in. Just let him/her be. If all goes well, you'll see him/her again very soon. If you have any fish (eg. damsels etc.) in the same tank as your smithii, feed lightly. Monitor levels - if your smithii doesn't appear after 3 weeks and there's a large ammonia/nitrate spike/major algae bloom, then he/she might have died in his/her burrow. Honestly, it's just a waiting game. Be patient - your mantis should be fine. 🙂 

Thanks so much for the insight.  Did you cover the tank?  To create a dark environment?  We have covered for the last 24 hours, no lights etc.  We can change this tomorrow if this is not necessary.  I read that in general bright light takes an adjustment period.  We have only had Shrimpy for 2 weeks and the aquarium we got him or her from did not have too much light.   I need guidance here as we went from low light to bright and now darkness.  Your thoughts?  Thanks in advance.  🙂  Also to be honest we opened the entry to the lair twice very early and yes Shrimpy was aggressive but seemed fully intact, ie not molting yet.  We hare hopeful we did not stress the little guy too much.  The thing is the rock that he or she is in is quite small and does not seem to have another exit.  If the space is too small to molt do you perhaps think darkness may encourage the smithii to venture out into the open to finish the molt if the rock is to small a space to rotate and squirm etc.   Is the blanket over the tank overkill now?  I only wish I was more informed earlier.  Our intentions are pure yet we must not make mistakes like we have been doing in future.  It is all learning but we are quite attached and don't want to loose shrimpy to a lack of knowledge.  Lastly we note that shrimpy took a full lance fish into the lair before he enclosed it.  I will link a video to show size and please do not judge us for the actions seen within it.  It is not a mistake we will make again...  Here is the video...

 

Since we got shirmpy he has been building a door, yet we moved the tank out into the lounge room and this was a very stressful experience in hindsight.  I saw shrimpy overwhelmed and sort of jerking his tail a bit. Since we moved 4 days ago he or she seemed to settle and then shut up shop again.  It was then we read about this being connected to molting.  Sorry to all for our inexperience.  😞

 

 

 

[MrSquiggle]

As you can see the rock on the lower left, is Shrimpy's lair, it does not seem big enough for movement required to molt.  Also there only appeared to be one entrance that has now been closed for two days and nights.  There is a 4 day old lance fish in there with Shrimpy.  I worry on the space and on the stress we have caused thus far.  I hope the choice of darkness does help here but am myself in the dark.  Also we do not know the age of Shrimpy and we also do not know how if the closing up shop was perhaps stress related foremost and may lead to a stress molt to early / not at the ideal time.  I only wish we knew earlier.  Apologies guys.  

[Snow_Phoenix]

1 hour ago, MrSquiggle said:

Thanks so much for the insight.  Did you cover the tank?  To create a dark environment?  We have covered for the last 24 hours, no lights etc.  We can change this tomorrow if this is not necessary.  I read that in general bright light takes an adjustment period.  We have only had Shrimpy for 2 weeks and the aquarium we got him or her from did not have too much light.   I need guidance here as we went from low light to bright and now darkness.  Your thoughts?  Thanks in advance.  🙂  Also to be honest we opened the entry to the lair twice very early and yes Shrimpy was aggressive but seemed fully intact, ie not molting yet.  We hare hopeful we did not stress the little guy too much.  The thing is the rock that he or she is in is quite small and does not seem to have another exit.  If the space is too small to molt do you perhaps think darkness may encourage the smithii to venture out into the open to finish the molt if the rock is to small a space to rotate and squirm etc.   Is the blanket over the tank overkill now?  I only wish I was more informed earlier.  Our intentions are pure yet we must not make mistakes like we have been doing in future.  It is all learning but we are quite attached and don't want to loose shrimpy to a lack of knowledge.  Lastly we note that shrimpy took a full lance fish into the lair before he enclosed it.  I will link a video to show size and please do not judge us for the actions seen within it.  It is not a mistake we will make again...  Here is the video...

 

Since we got shirmpy he has been building a door, yet we moved the tank out into the lounge room and this was a very stressful experience in hindsight.  I saw shrimpy overwhelmed and sort of jerking his tail a bit. Since we moved 4 days ago he or she seemed to settle and then shut up shop again.  It was then we read about this being connected to molting.  Sorry to all for our inexperience.  😞

 

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, MrSquiggle said:

As you can see the rock on the lower left, is Shrimpy's lair, it does not seem big enough for movement required to molt.  Also there only appeared to be one entrance that has now been closed for two days and nights.  There is a 4 day old lance fish in there with Shrimpy.  I worry on the space and on the stress we have caused thus far.  I hope the choice of darkness does help here but am myself in the dark.  Also we do not know the age of Shrimpy and we also do not know how if the closing up shop was perhaps stress related foremost and may lead to a stress molt to early / not at the ideal time.  I only wish we knew earlier.  Apologies guys.  

No need to apologize. It doesn't matter how big or small the rock is, your mantis will burrow into it and create a new tunnel/host of tunnels. They're surprisingly flexible and can U-turn within their tunnels pretty quickly, if there's enough room to execute such a move. Most of the time, there's only one exit/entrance. The lance fish is dead, am I correct? Then you might want to remove it because all it will do is rot in your sandbed (I think I glimpsed it in your video). If it's alive, you might still want to remove it because I don't think it's suitable for a tank that size. 

Every time one of my mantises molted, I still kept a regular lighting schedule, but only because all my mantises were in reef tanks (most of the time, anyway) and the corals needed the light. Since yours is a FOWLR, it's up to you to forgo your lighting - nothing will happen to the shrimp anyway. Don't stress out too much. Let nature take its course. And don't move any of the rocks around or upend anything in the tank - let your shrimp molt in peace. But if you're too worried, test the water weekly until the shrimp shows up again. Usually a mantis would take around 1 to 2 weeks to molt successfully. It's the prolonged molts you have to watch out for - that was how I lost my G. platysoma, Morpheus, more than a month ago, when he didn't show up for 3+ weeks. 

[MrSquiggle]

10 hours ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

 

No need to apologize. It doesn't matter how big or small the rock is, your mantis will burrow into it and create a new tunnel/host of tunnels. They're surprisingly flexible and can U-turn within their tunnels pretty quickly, if there's enough room to execute such a move. Most of the time, there's only one exit/entrance. The lance fish is dead, am I correct? Then you might want to remove it because all it will do is rot in your sandbed (I think I glimpsed it in your video). If it's alive, you might still want to remove it because I don't think it's suitable for a tank that size. 

Every time one of my mantises molted, I still kept a regular lighting schedule, but only because all my mantises were in reef tanks (most of the time, anyway) and the corals needed the light. Since yours is a FOWLR, it's up to you to forgo your lighting - nothing will happen to the shrimp anyway. Don't stress out too much. Let nature take its course. And don't move any of the rocks around or upend anything in the tank - let your shrimp molt in peace. But if you're too worried, test the water weekly until the shrimp shows up again. Usually a mantis would take around 1 to 2 weeks to molt successfully. It's the prolonged molts you have to watch out for - that was how I lost my G. platysoma, Morpheus, more than a month ago, when he didn't show up for 3+ weeks. 

Thank you very much...  the lance fish you saw in the video was removed.  As I had damaged the entrance hole to the lair that evening I presented another lance fish and Shrimpy took this into the lair (that rock you saw in the video) and did not eject the uneaten parts before closing up shop.  So now it is almost a week in and that lance fish is still in the lair (sealed in).  Hence I cannot remove it.  Today I am taking a water sample to the aquarium to be tested for all levels of relevance.  The tank is now also due for a 20-30 percent water change.  Would you delay this?  I will of course present the finding of the water test here for consideration.  As I mentioned before due to our decision to cover the tank I made a further decision to remove the two corals from the tank in case they were beginning to rot.  I have these in a bucket under lighting, however without the water flow (they are in still water) I doubt they will make it.

 

I guess my two concerns at the moment are the enclosed lance fish, and the water quality.  I will make the assumption that the rock that Shrimpy has been hammering away in for about 2 weeks has enough room inside it for him or her to molt.  I will advise water results and await your feedback before doing anything else as I am beginning to loose faith that my decisions are sound.

[Snow_Phoenix]

1 hour ago, MrSquiggle said:

Thank you very much...  the lance fish you saw in the video was removed.  As I had damaged the entrance hole to the lair that evening I presented another lance fish and Shrimpy took this into the lair (that rock you saw in the video) and did not eject the uneaten parts before closing up shop.  So now it is almost a week in and that lance fish is still in the lair (sealed in).  Hence I cannot remove it.  Today I am taking a water sample to the aquarium to be tested for all levels of relevance.  The tank is now also due for a 20-30 percent water change.  Would you delay this?  I will of course present the finding of the water test here for consideration.  As I mentioned before due to our decision to cover the tank I made a further decision to remove the two corals from the tank in case they were beginning to rot.  I have these in a bucket under lighting, however without the water flow (they are in still water) I doubt they will make it.

 

I guess my two concerns at the moment are the enclosed lance fish, and the water quality.  I will make the assumption that the rock that Shrimpy has been hammering away in for about 2 weeks has enough room inside it for him or her to molt.  I will advise water results and await your feedback before doing anything else as I am beginning to loose faith that my decisions are sound.

If you're doing a WC, don't drain the tank fully - 20% WC sounds good enough. I'd keep up with the regular WCs since they are part of maintenance. Why not get your own test kits and test the water on your own? That'll be a lot more easier than going to your LFS every time to test something (of course, if your LFS is nearby, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle, but if it's a distance, then maybe just get your own kits). 

Since she accepted the lancefish, she's most likely consuming it - how big is the lancefish you gave her, and how big is your mantis in general? I usually feed a very, very small slice of parang fish roe or frozen shrimp which is half the size of my mantis's head every time. Any uneaten and abandoned food is usually removed within the hour, but if my mantis had dragged the food back into his/her lair, I'd leave it because they do eventually eat it (usually). And since the food helping is very small, even if it is left to disintegrate, it usually doesn't cause a major ammonia/nitrate spike. 

If the corals were rotting, then good call on removing them. What corals were they, btw?

[MrSquiggle]

2 hours ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

If you're doing a WC, don't drain the tank fully - 20% WC sounds good enough. I'd keep up with the regular WCs since they are part of maintenance. Why not get your own test kits and test the water on your own? That'll be a lot more easier than going to your LFS every time to test something (of course, if your LFS is nearby, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle, but if it's a distance, then maybe just get your own kits). 

Since she accepted the lancefish, she's most likely consuming it - how big is the lancefish you gave her, and how big is your mantis in general? I usually feed a very, very small slice of parang fish roe or frozen shrimp which is half the size of my mantis's head every time. Any uneaten and abandoned food is usually removed within the hour, but if my mantis had dragged the food back into his/her lair, I'd leave it because they do eventually eat it (usually). And since the food helping is very small, even if it is left to disintegrate, it usually doesn't cause a major ammonia/nitrate spike. 

If the corals were rotting, then good call on removing them. What corals were they, btw?

Hi Blenny Lover!  Thanks for your reply.  Ok so some good news....  Firstly the Aquarium is 5 minutes up the road so travel is cool.  Got results on the

 

water as follows;

 

Ammonia: 0

Nitrites: 0

Nitrates: 5

Carbon Hardness  / Alkalinity:  8

Salt: 31

 

[I jotted these down quickly so my have some terminology wrong here]

 

I was advised the only concerning issues is the Salt @ 31.  I am advised 35 is the target.

 

SO

 

Today I have done a 30% water change.  I am not comfortable or experienced enough to prepare my own water at this point so for the next two days instead of using RO water to top up the tank I will use reef water.  This should in theory bring the salinity up slowly instead of in one go.  Thoughts here?

 

The corals were not rotting but due to the removal of the lights (as I read is often done for a mantis during molting) I assumed the corals would die and hence begin to rot in the next two weeks.  It was a preemptive move to remove them.  They do appear to be struggling anyway due to no wave maker, so I will return them this afternoon to the aquarium for revival in optimal conditions.

 

The lance fish: Ok here I have been making a mistake.  The lance fish we have been feeding every three days has been about half the size of the mantis.  Shrimpy is pretty small, about 8-9cm long head to tail.  Any idea of age here?  Feeding has been irregular.  First two feeds she (will assume she from now on till otherwise discovered) was only eating say a third of this lance fish.  We then removed the rest within the hour as you do.   Then the day before I disturbed her she took a lance fish about half her size and seemed to eat all of it except the head and bones.  So I then thought ok, a full lance fish is not too much.  Then right before she shut up shop (only 2 days after the massive feed) she took a lance fish into her lair and shut it down. I did not expect this to happen, in hindsight I see the over feeding was an issue.  I now assume this was lunch for the week etc, however noting only 2 days before she ate most of one half her size, I worry the now entombed lance fish is mostly untouched and potentially rotting.  I am thankful the above water readings do not raise any major alarms.  I also note the rock she is locked down in is porous, so water can flow in and out of it to prevent any major spikes in the rock itself.

 

The corals: not sure their names... I will insert a photo here...

 

 

Learning a lot here.  This is a great forum.  I only hope my mistakes thus far do not end in bad news for Shrimpy.   

 

Last question.  Any concerns with the limited lighting?  I want to make it dark enough so that if Shrimpy begins to find the current lair too enclosed to molt, she will be confident in sneaking out of the lair to finish molting.  Hence the low light.

 

Apologies for the spelling mistakes, I rushed this reply out.

[MrSquiggle]

Regarding Shrimpy's size, he may be a bit larger, hard to recall when I saw him fully stretched out.

[Snow_Phoenix]

1 hour ago, MrSquiggle said:

Hi Blenny Lover!  Thanks for your reply.  Ok so some good news....  Firstly the Aquarium is 5 minutes up the road so travel is cool.  Got results on the

 

water as follows;

 

Ammonia: 0

Nitrites: 0

Nitrates: 5

Carbon Hardness  / Alkalinity:  8

Salt: 31

 

[I jotted these down quickly so my have some terminology wrong here]

 

I was advised the only concerning issues is the Salt @ 31.  I am advised 35 is the target.

 

SO

 

Today I have done a 30% water change.  I am not comfortable or experienced enough to prepare my own water at this point so for the next two days instead of using RO water to top up the tank I will use reef water.  This should in theory bring the salinity up slowly instead of in one go.  Thoughts here?

 

The corals were not rotting but due to the removal of the lights (as I read is often done for a mantis during molting) I assumed the corals would die and hence begin to rot in the next two weeks.  It was a preemptive move to remove them.  They do appear to be struggling anyway due to no wave maker, so I will return them this afternoon to the aquarium for revival in optimal conditions.

 

The lance fish: Ok here I have been making a mistake.  The lance fish we have been feeding every three days has been about half the size of the mantis.  Shrimpy is pretty small, about 8-9cm long head to tail.  Any idea of age here?  Feeding has been irregular.  First two feeds she (will assume she from now on till otherwise discovered) was only eating say a third of this lance fish.  We then removed the rest within the hour as you do.   Then the day before I disturbed her she took a lance fish about half her size and seemed to eat all of it except the head and bones.  So I then thought ok, a full lance fish is not too much.  Then right before she shut up shop (only 2 days after the massive feed) she took a lance fish into her lair and shut it down. I did not expect this to happen, in hindsight I see the over feeding was an issue.  I now assume this was lunch for the week etc, however noting only 2 days before she ate most of one half her size, I worry the now entombed lance fish is mostly untouched and potentially rotting.  I am thankful the above water readings do not raise any major alarms.  I also note the rock she is locked down in is porous, so water can flow in and out of it to prevent any major spikes in the rock itself.

 

The corals: not sure their names... I will insert a photo here...

 

 

Learning a lot here.  This is a great forum.  I only hope my mistakes thus far do not end in bad news for Shrimpy.   

 

Last question.  Any concerns with the limited lighting?  I want to make it dark enough so that if Shrimpy begins to find the current lair too enclosed to molt, she will be confident in sneaking out of the lair to finish molting.  Hence the low light.

 

Apologies for the spelling mistakes, I rushed this reply out.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but does 31 = 1.021 SG? And 35 is roughly 1.026 SG, am I correct? (Might be wrong here)

We usually run reef tanks at 1.025, and FOWLRs can go as low as 1.023. If you're running it at 1.021, then that's quite low, salinity-wise, and would explain why your corals aren't faring well. 

Also, what do you mean by 'reef water'? Is it premixed salt water from your LFS?

I usually use DI to mix my saltwater (don't use tap in any case) but most reefers on the site use RODI and mix the water themselves. 

Rather than feeding the entire lancefish, just feed the soft flesh of the lancefish which has been sliced into smaller chunks (no bones or head thrown into the mix). This would be a better option to feed your mantis. 

Also, I'm not sure what the coral on the left is (too unclear for me) but the right looks like Xenia. Xenia is a soft coral, usually easy to take care off, and once settled in, it can spread like a weed. Some people like it though, due to the motion it brings. If ever you change your mind and want to keep those corals, you'll need to gradually increase your salinity and insert a small powerhead/wavemaker in the tank to increase flow. 

 

I don't know what type of lights you currently have, but you need lights suitable for a marine tank, and not the normal white LEDs or tubes that is used for freshwater tanks. 

P.S. You might also consider making a build thread for your mantis in the journal section. You'll get more varied responses from other reefers on there as compared to this thread alone. 🙂 

EDIT: Just used an online calculator. 31ppt = 1.023~ SG (okay for FOWLR, not too okay for reef). 35ppt = 1.026~ SG (a little bit too high for reef). Ideally, you should aim for 33 to 34ppt if you plan on keeping that coral. Otherwise, your current salinity isn't too bad if you're getting rid of the coral and making your tank a FOWLR. (Use a refractrometer to check your salinity btw, those cheap plastic hydrometers are unreliable).

[MrSquiggle]

7 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

I'm not 100% sure about this, but does 31 = 1.021 SG? And 35 is roughly 1.026 SG, am I correct? (Might be wrong here)

We usually run reef tanks at 1.025, and FOWLRs can go as low as 1.023. If you're running it at 1.021, then that's quite low, salinity-wise, and would explain why your corals aren't faring well. 

Also, what do you mean by 'reef water'? Is it premixed salt water from your LFS?

I usually use DI to mix my saltwater (don't use tap in any case) but most reefers on the site use RODI and mix the water themselves. 

Rather than feeding the entire lancefish, just feed the soft flesh of the lancefish which has been sliced into smaller chunks (no bones or head thrown into the mix). This would be a better option to feed your mantis. 

Also, I'm not sure what the coral on the left is (too unclear for me) but the right looks like Xenia. Xenia is a soft coral, usually easy to take care off, and once settled in, it can spread like a weed. Some people like it though, due to the motion it brings. If ever you change your mind and want to keep those corals, you'll need to gradually increase your salinity and insert a small powerhead/wavemaker in the tank to increase flow. 

 

I don't know what type of lights you currently have, but if you need lights suitable for a marine tank, and not the normal white LEDs or tubes that is used for freshwater tanks. 

P.S. You might also consider making a build thread for your mantis in the journal section. You'll get more varied responses from other reefers on there as compared to this thread alone. 🙂 

EDIT: Just used an online calculator. 31ppt = 1.023~ SG (okay for FOWLR, not too okay for reef). 35ppt = 1.026~ SG (a little bit too high for reef). Ideally, you should aim for 33 to 34ppt if you plan on keeping that coral. Otherwise, your current salinity isn't too bad if you're getting rid of the coral and making your tank a FOWLR. (Use a refractrometer to check your salinity btw, those cheap plastic hydrometers are unreliable).

Again thank you.  Much to digest in your post, I will do the necessary research.  The "reef water" apparently comes directly from the ocean.  The lady at the aquarium mentioned it is good to have reef salt as a backup as "sometimes after a storm the reef water can be murkey" - I took this as an indication it comes directly from the ocean.  I will clarify this when I return the corals today.  🙂

[MrSquiggle]

20 hours ago, MrSquiggle said:

Again thank you.  Much to digest in your post, I will do the necessary research.  The "reef water" apparently comes directly from the ocean.  The lady at the aquarium mentioned it is good to have reef salt as a backup as "sometimes after a storm the reef water can be murkey" - I took this as an indication it comes directly from the ocean.  I will clarify this when I return the corals today.  🙂

As per a suggestion I have made a thread specifically for beginners who have a smithii... 

[MrSquiggle]

If you have or have had a smithii please join the above...  Thanks again to all that have help us so far OOO