The "BEST" Amino Acid?

[basser1]

Saw this article on Reef-Builders about Two Little Fishies "AcroPower".......

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/12/05/acropower-review/

 

They make some pretty strong claims about it. While I keep mostly SPS, it looks like this is good for any type of corals...

 

Is this better than Zeovit???

[malady]

I tried zeovit, worked great but pricey so I switched to red sea reef energy.

 

Acropower def. sounds interesting I might have to try this

[basser1]

I tried zeovit, worked great but pricey so I switched to red sea reef energy.

 

Acropower def. sounds interesting I might have to try this

 

 

Yeah that whole zeovit program is pricey. Plus the SPS tanks I've seen using zeovit lightens the SPS corals colors, almost too pastel for my taste.

 

But like you, I may try this too

[Arkayology]

Yeah that whole zeovit program is pricey. Plus the SPS tanks I've seen using zeovit lightens the SPS corals colors, almost too pastel for my taste.

 

But like you, I may try this too

There are plenty zeovit tanks with non-pastel SPS. Most of the tanks that have super light SPS are using zeospur, which causes a reduction in the amount of zooxanthellae density in the coral. This brings out the lighter colors. That being said, the KZ amino acid is pretty good stuff.

[jedimasterben]

While dissolved amino acids can be taken up by corals (and can supply around 20% of their daily nitrogen intake), most are biosynthesized internally. Organic and inorganic nitrogen in the water can make up 100% of their daily nitrogen intake if needed.

 

The main benefit from amino acid supplements (IMHO the only real reason for dosing them specifically) is that proline, aspartic acid, and glutamine elicit a rapid and intense feeding response, aka polyp extension, after which they should be fed foods according to the typical particle size that the coral feeds upon.

 

 

Here is a good article on amino acids (with actual data as to what goes on): http://jeb.biologists.org/content/211/6/860.full.pdf

[Asureef]

Saw this article on Reef-Builders about Two Little Fishies "AcroPower".......

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/12/05/acropower-review/

 

They make some pretty strong claims about it. While I keep mostly SPS, it looks like this is good for any type of corals...

 

Is this better than Zeovit???

 

"AcroPower", nice, you should try it Basser1 and let me know.

How come I don't see a single Acropora in the review?

[basser1]

"AcroPower", nice, you should try it Basser1 and let me know.

How come I don't see a single Acropora in the review?

 

 

I may just do that!!

 

I think their point is, this stuff works for all corals not just acros. They do make mention of their 250 gallon SPS dominated tank though. Plus the thing that jumps out to me is they doesn't cotribute to algae growth, no refrigeration is needed and doesn't elevate Nitrates and Phosphates (a real bonus).......

[jedimasterben]

Plus the thing that jumps out to me is they doesn't cotribute to algae growth,

That's bullshit.

no refrigeration is needed

The amino acids will break down much more quickly if not refrigerated.

and doesn't elevate Nitrates and Phosphates (a real bonus).......

Also more bullshit. Amino acids are nitrogenous. When they break down (which happens quickly in our tanks), they turn into nitrogenous wastes, aka nitrate (nitrite, ammonia also).

 

Just marketing speak. They know people understand nitrate and phosphate are bad, and if their product says it doesn't have them or make them, then people will feel more comfortable with it and buy it since they don't know any better.

[1.0reef]

I'm with Jedi....

[basser1]

That's bullshit.

The amino acids will break down much more quickly if not refrigerated.

Also more bullshit. Amino acids are nitrogenous. When they break down (which happens quickly in our tanks), they turn into nitrogenous wastes, aka nitrate (nitrite, ammonia also).

 

Just marketing speak. They know people understand nitrate and phosphate are bad, and if their product says it doesn't have them or make them, then people will feel more comfortable with it and buy it since they don't know any better.

 

Jedi.... Did you read the "review"?? This isn't coming from the manufacturer. I'm assuming it's from real world results from their tanks.

[jedimasterben]

Jedi.... Did you read the "review"?? This isn't coming from the manufacturer. I'm assuming it's from real world results from their tanks.

I did, and what they say is absolute bullshit. I'm too lazy at this point to look at the TLF website and see what it lists for the description, or what their press release says, but I'd imagine that info was lifted from one of those sources.

 

Claiming a nitrogenous product does not produce nitrate is an outright lie.

[hypostatic]

The amino acids will break down much more quickly if not refrigerated.

Amino acids are nitrogenous.

 

I thought amino acids were pretty stable molecules? I don't know what goes into the bottle, but pure amino acids should have a shelf life of years if they're kept in a cool/dark place. Though I guess there could be enzymes and cofactors in there as well that might screw things up... but still, they're pretty simple/stable molecules

 

pic for reference

[Acielot]

I'm not well versed in organic chemistry but being that they are organic compound I'd imagine that they would begin to decay significantly as soon as the bottle is opened.

[jedimasterben]

 

I thought amino acids were pretty stable molecules? I don't know what goes into the bottle, but pure amino acids should have a shelf life of years if they're kept in a cool/dark place. Though I guess there could be enzymes and cofactors in there as well that might screw things up... but still, they're pretty simple/stable molecules

 

pic for reference

Like you said, pure amino acids, but these amino products contain things that have the amino acids in them - for instance, Seachem Fuel contains chlorella, which is a whole host of goodies once it is broken down or eaten directly.

[metrokat]

Zeph mentioned acro power to me a few weeks ago and it has been on my list of things to buy after I use up the 5 other amino products I already have .....

[Nocturnal]

Well, thymine is not without it's charm but for my money adenine can't be beat.

[hypostatic]

so do people add pure amino acids into their tanks? You can buy them relatively cheaply in powder form:

 

http://www.vitacost.com/source-naturals-l-proline-powder

http://biovea.us/product_detail.aspx?PID=2090&TI=GGLUS&C=N&gclid=CPX2-8OPnLsCFcTm7AodI1EAJw

 

and a little less cheaply is you want molecular grade stuff:

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/g1626?lang=en&region=US&cm_mmc=Google_Cell-Culture-_-search-_-BSM-Dynamic-ads-_-Bioactive-Small-Molecules

 

though it would still be cheaper than the commercial reef additives. especially considering that you'd be starting with pure product, so you'd have to dilute it, meaning you'd have a massive amount of dosing solution to use

[nova423]

There are plenty zeovit tanks with non-pastel SPS. Most of the tanks that have super light SPS are using zeospur, which causes a reduction in the amount of zooxanthellae density in the coral. This brings out the lighter colors. That being said, the KZ amino acid is pretty good stuff.

+1

[hypostatic]

The main benefit from amino acid supplements (IMHO the only real reason for dosing them specifically) is that proline, aspartic acid, and glutamine elicit a rapid and intense feeding response, aka polyp extension, after which they should be fed foods according to the typical particle size that the coral feeds upon.

 

 

Here is a good article on amino acids (with actual data as to what goes on): http://jeb.biologists.org/content/211/6/860.full.pdf

 

Also, considering the paper you cited, why wouldn't you recommend dosing for the 3 amino acids that were uptaken the most by corals in the paper (valine, asparagine, histidine)? Also, any idea why they didn't test all the amino acids?

[jedimasterben]

Also, considering the paper you cited, why wouldn't you recommend dosing for the 3 amino acids that were uptaken the most by corals in the paper (valine, asparagine, histidine)

Do you feed your tanks (either fish or corals)? If so, you're putting in all of the amino acids that are necessary (if any cannot be biosynthesized).

Also, any idea why they didn't test all the amino acids?

More than likely it is difficult to run the tests that they did with accuracy, or they didn't see it as necessary, or any other possibility lol

 

so do people add pure amino acids into their tanks? You can buy them relatively cheaply in powder form:

I have considered it, yes. Basically just the three main that elicit a feeding response, leaving the others out, and then feeding the tank a protein-rich (protein breaks down into an astonishing amount of amino acids) mixture of clam, mussel, shrimp, oyster. Basically following the Blu-Coral method's pappone recipe.

[tibbsy07]

This has some good information http://www.coralscience.org/main/articles/nutrition-6/amino-acids It uses that paper that Ben linked and reviews it with another.

 

As for amino acids, they will break down a bit, but we keep them in powdered form on the shelf for a while without issue... That being said, considering they contain amine groups, saying that they will not produce any nitrate waste is interesting... They may not produce any DIRECTLY, but that's a wording choice. It's like restaurants saying "We don't add MSG" and people think it means there is no MSG. No - there is, they just don't add any additional MSG... In this case, I'm not sure I'd buy the whole no nitrate waste thing, though I believe that nitrile formation is more common from amines than other reactions, however I am not a chemist, least of all an organic chemist. The claim also says no phosphates... But this all assumes the amines or amino groups aren't being utilized by microbes in a way that results in extra waste. Remember - when you dose a tank, you aren't just dosing fish and coral/inverts. There are countless microbes in that tank that will also utilize anything you put it.

 

As far as the best aminos to add - If you are going to add any, you'll need to know which amino acids can and can't be synthesized by the corals. Any of the AAs that can be synthesized by the coral or their symbionts, it'd be a waste to add them. Any that can't be made by the organisms should be given. Adding ones that can be made won't hurt, but it's more important to supply what can't be made than what can be made. Adding proteins is good too - proteins are nothing more than long chains of amino acids.

[hypostatic]

Do you feed your tanks (either fish or corals)? If so, you're putting in all of the amino acids that are necessary (if any cannot be biosynthesized).

 

But how many AAs are they actually getting if they only happen to catch a food particle every once in a while? Wouldn't it be more effective to just increase the concentration of AAs in the water?

 

Also, If i'm understanding correctly, it seems that you wouldn't be dosing amino acids for your corals to uptake them directly, but in order to induce polyp extension for other foods to be ingested

[ReviloM]

Just to diffuse the "brain smoke" in this thread: Has anyone here, besides me, thought smell of Aquavitro Fuel smells great?

[jedimasterben]

But how many AAs are they actually getting if they only happen to catch a food particle every once in a while? Wouldn't it be more effective to just increase the concentration of AAs in the water?

 

Also, If i'm understanding correctly, it seems that you wouldn't be dosing amino acids for your corals to uptake them directly, but in order to induce polyp extension for other foods to be ingested

Adding amino acids to the water, in the order of only a few milliliters of fluid (which contains very, very tiny amounts of the actual product, the rest is deionized water) will be as small of a concentration in the water as adding food, so that is a moot point.

 

And yes, that I would say is really the thing that these should be dosed for, as just a means of making them eat more!

 

Just to diffuse the "brain smoke" in this thread: Has anyone here, besides me, thought smell of Aquavitro Fuel smells great?

I've never actually smelled it, but I think I'm going to now, you have me curious.

[ReviloM]

I've never actually smelled it, but I think I'm going to now, you have me curious.

It's a unique smell. It doesn't make you cringe so it's essentially a "good" smell.