The Graveyard-Shiznit is hitting the fan!

[jadedanime]

Hey guys, so a few of you are aware that I am planning a mantis tank. I've seen three in person so far, and I am in love. So I've been researching around and I think I've got a plan.

 

I wanted to stay around $150, but lets face it, it's not reasonable. So I said to myself, I can do $250. So here it is, my $250 plan for a mantis tank:

 

The Tank: Pro Clear acrylic iTank

Heater: none. Yet. My dorm keeps my tank around 80-82 degrees.

Pump: again comes with tank, will most likely add something. 98 gph

Light: stock. Will add blues

Stunner strip for blues.

5-8 lbs of Dry sand

5-8 lbs base rock and live rock from my other tank.

1 lb of rubble in sump (waiting on nice piece to show up...)

Filter floss

Possible chemipure, carbon, etc.

 

THE MANTIS: wennerae.

 

Other inhabitants:

Talbot damsel (added 8-23-13)

Blue legs

Orange legs

 

Corals:

Some euphyllia..not sure which. Maybe frogspawn

Orange and purple gorgs (7-13)

Yumas

Maxi mini nem

 

Anything else I find at the LFS that doesn't need a ton of light.

 

 

So what do you all think? I'm planning on getting this thing wet by the middle of July after I return from Virginia. And I move back to campus the last week in August, so I want this tank wet, cycled and ready for stomatopody goodness by September at the latest.

 

Edited out: egg crate. Flower nem.

Edited in:

 

 

So welcome to:

[vietdam89]

sounds awesome. cant wait to see it. i'd love to set up a mantis tank one day

[jadedanime]

sounds awesome. cant wait to see it. i'd love to set up a mantis tank one day

Thanks vietdam! I'm itching to get this thing started but petco is closed for today. Maybe Tuesday when I pick up my pom pom crab from my LFS I'll get the tank.

 

Thanks for tuning in too

[Islandoftiki]

Following along!

 

I would think egg crate would trap detritus, skip it. You're also using an acrylic tank, so there should be no worries either way. If you want extra protection for the bottom, put a piece of acrylic to cover the bottom of the tank and seal it in place so crud can't get under it and cause a nitrate problem. I wouldn't stress on it though.

[jadedanime]

Following along!

 

I would think egg crate would trap detritus, skip it. You're also using an acrylic tank, so there should be no worries either way. If you want extra protection for the bottom, put a piece of acrylic to cover the bottom of the tank and seal it in place so crud can't get under it and cause a nitrate problem. I wouldn't stress on it though.

 

You know I was thinking the same thing this morning. Ok so skipping the egg crate. Fine by me, lowers expenses, if even just five dollars lol

[noidster]

Pretty sure, according the information in the mantis shrimp forums on reefcentral, that even smaller odontodactylus do not do well in reef lit tanks. Also 5g is too small for a havanensis. N.Wennerae or N.Oerstedii on the other hand, is also available at sealife inc, and can tolerate any light you want, and should do fine in a 5g.

[jadedanime]

Pretty sure, according the information in the mantis shrimp forums on reefcentral, that even smaller odontodactylus do not do well in reef lit tanks. Also 5g is too small for a havanensis. N.Wennerae or N.Oerstedii on the other hand, is also available at sealife inc, and can tolerate any light you want, and should do fine in a 5g.

 

I've already hashed that issue out with the mantis experts on here. Aka the wonderful Islandoftiki in this thread as well as others. Also, this isn't a reef lit tank. It's got stock freshwater white lighting. If I increase the lights, it would be to a par30 bulb. Which I'm pretty sure a lot of people use over their mantis tanks. I'm not too worried about that yet though, as the most I will probably add will be the stunner strip. That's not really a lot of light.

 

Oerstedii are great and all, but I don't think they are as interactive as havanensis. I like wennerae as well, but again, not as active.

 

As for being small, the reasons people prefer to keep mantids in larger tanks is that they can break the glass. I have acrylic. Another concern is water quality. I have very good husbandry, and when I am not home, I will have an tunze nano, or the tank will be moving to my friends house, who has kept mantids and who I trust immensely.

 

What are your general concerns? Have you kept a mantis before or just trusting what you read? I have seen mantids in as small as 2 gallon tanks with no problem. It just depends on the person and the mantis.

 

If issues arrive, I have backup plans.

[noidster]

I've already hashed that issue out with the mantis experts on here. Aka the wonderful Islandoftiki in this thread as well as others. Also, this isn't a reef lit tank. It's got stock freshwater white lighting. If I increase the lights, it would be to a par30 bulb. Which I'm pretty sure a lot of people use over their mantis tanks. I'm not too worried about that yet though, as the most I will probably add will be the stunner strip. That's not really a lot of light. Oerstedii are great and all, but I don't think they are as interactive as havanensis. I like wennerae as well, but again, not as active. As for being small, the reasons people prefer to keep mantids in larger tanks is that they can break the glass. I have acrylic. Another concern is water quality. I have very good husbandry, and when I am not home, I will have an tunze nano, or the tank will be moving to my friends house, who has kept mantids and who I trust immensely. What are your general concerns? Have you kept a mantis before or just trusting what you read? I have seen mantids in as small as 2 gallon tanks with no problem. It just depends on the person and the mantis. If issues arrive, I have backup plans.

Been keeping them since early 2000. Shell rot, inadequate space, are my concerns. You seem to have your mind made up though. Good luck Mantis breaking glass is pretty much not going to happen. That is not the reason for size concerns. Bummer when people keep animals in less than ideal conditions for their own selfish reasons. par 30 is WAY too much light. With odontodactylus its coral or shrimp. Do some more research, and make a logical choice. I would trust a professor that has been dealing with them for decades over your friend.

[sodiumchloride]

..Bummer when people keep animals in less than ideal conditions for their own selfish reasons.

 

..I would trust a professor that has been dealing with them for decades over your friend.

 

I don't mean to sound contentious to anyone but this is very true. I also got slack-jawed by these stomatopods when I first saw one and have been doing my homework on them in hopes of keeping one in due time. Roy Caldwell is a very legitimate source and approachable for questions.

 

I know this is the nano forum and compact is chic, but I personally think it's our duty to make sure our captive animals are at least discernibly content in its living conditions. The reality is that you can't really say anything without sounding like an unsolicited social justice warrior and at the end everyone is to make their own choices.

[jadedanime]

Been keeping them since early 2000. Shell rot, inadequate space, are my concerns. You seem to have your mind made up though. Good luck Mantis breaking glass is pretty much not going to happen. That is not the reason for size concerns. Bummer when people keep animals in less than ideal conditions for their own selfish reasons. par 30 is WAY too much light. With odontodactylus its coral or shrimp. Do some more research, and make a logical choice. I would trust a professor that has been dealing with them for decades over your friend.

 

I don't mean to sound contentious to anyone but this is very true. I also got slack-jawed by these stomatopods when I first saw one and have been doing my homework on them in hopes of keeping one in due time. Roy Caldwell is a very legitimate source and approachable for questions.

 

I know this is the nano forum and compact is chic, but I personally think it's our duty to make sure our captive animals are at least discernibly content in its living conditions. The reality is that you can't really say anything without sounding like an unsolicited social justice warrior and at the end everyone is to make their own choices.

No mind completely not made up. Thank you for your input though, I appreciate it. Although adding the professor bit I think was a bit unneeded. No offense but being a professor means very little. You could be a doctor of marine biology and have cruddy tanks. And then there could be a school janitor with the most gorgeous tanks in the world. However, I understood your point if you were referring to Roy and not yourself. He has quite the know how and I definitely respect him and his knowledge.

 

I also take offense to the selfish comment. I am by no means trying to put this mantis in less than ideal conditions. If I was doing that I would be like others who toss it in, and then go oh what did I just buy? I believe the sump which add the extra volume to be crucial to this tank. Essentially it'll be a 6.5 gallon. I understand no its not the ocean, that's the only ideal situation by my book. If I keep water pristine, give him food and make sure no harm comes to him, essentially that he is indeed content, where am I going wrong? I think people think that by putting something in a box is being cruel. Well this isn't an incredibly small box, this is a pretty decent box. It's in the size ratio of a small ranch house to humans, which I understand means absolutely nothing, but it gives some perspective. Mantids don't generally roam about anyway, they climb on the rock work to hunt, or dig in the sand by their den. Also lets put it this way, it's not a peacock, this mantis is about half that size.

 

Also thank you for your concerns with the light, like I said though, I probably will only be adding a stunner strip, which is virtually nothing. It's part of the reason ill be choosing low light corals for this system.

 

I am by no means trying to make this situation the only one. I still may choose to get a wennerae. I don't know yet. I invite criticism and those with experience to join in on this.

[noidster]

Oh no, I'm not a professor. Roy L. Caldwell, who is Professor of Integrative Biology at the University of California at Berkely is who I was referring to, that I trust information from. The mantis shrimp forums at reef central, specifically the one on the virtues of the small odontodactylus species is where you should look.

[Islandoftiki]

Sorry folks, I've been reading most of these posts on my cell phone while on-the-go and distracted I'm just going back and getting caught up on what I missed.

 

Looks like there's come consternation about the tank/mantis combination. I'm sorry if my enthusiasm for the O. Havanensis and my not paying attention to the details of the build led this in the wrong direction. I think we should take that species off the table for this specific tank setup. More appropriate for the O. Havanensis would be a low light 20 long or similar type of tank.

 

No need for anyone to go all tang police as jadedanime is obviously still very open to input and the build hasn't even started yet.

 

So, anyhow, sorry about any confusion I might have put in your mind, but for this particular tank, I'd stick with one of the other smaller mantis species.

 

Or... For a similar amount of money, you could probably throw together a nice 20 long with a couple of modified AC filters, one for chemical filtration and one for a small HOB fuge. You could even skip the lighting, which is a big expense. Honestly, my unlighted peacock tank is just as fun as my 10 gallon mixed reef, only much cheaper, easier to maintain and less stress.

[patback]

I'd stay away from lps that isn't covered in flesh. My havanensis whacks at any coral skeleton I put in. It's possible to keep them, but I wouldn't spend much money on the frags.

[patback]

I also think everyone who hasn't kept certain species shouldn't cast aspersions on wht is NEEDED.(notice I didn't say ideal) I'll throw it out there that I planned on movin my baby havanensis to my 15 gallon tank when it grew up ( I got it and it was a tiny little fella). I never saw a need to upgrade however, and as far as it being "difficult to keep" due to shell rot, needing a lightless tank, and being sensitive to water parameters; let's just say mine is doing fine in my t5 powered 3 gallon tank that hasn't had a water change in a few months.

 

Think of everyone who says you need to basically dedicate your life to keepig an octopus. Criley kept his in a 20h and you can not say that he didn't live a long time as far as pusses go.

[sodiumchloride]

When I first started keeping aquariums, I often asked whether I could keep x species in a y sized tank, despite research indicating otherwise. This was more or less seeking approval from like-minded careless people. As I continued on and got over the sense of entitlement of keeping whatever I want to make things for me (not for anything else); I quickly realized how the stocking guidelines were indeed instilled for a good reason, no matter how inconvenient it may be for people.

 

For me, I would follow the guidelines found @ http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/arthropoda/crustacea/malacostraca/eumalacostraca/royslist/ while knowing that this is coming from someone who has dedicated their life in studying and observing mantis shrimps. I would feel better and enjoy the set up more while knowing that the mantis is living within decent living conditions.

 

If you do enough water changes even puffers who are prone to releasing stunting hormonal compounds into the water will grow to an adequate size, but there is a distinction between thriving and surviving. Ethical judgement should always be practiced when dealing with live specimens- doesn't matter if it's a dog, cat, or fish/inverts. Although temporarily housing a juvenile in an undersized tank is definitely practical, the lack of concern and overall complacency for a jam-packed micro sized tank is less than respectable. For this ideology to be accepted under the guise of an apparent pico/nano trend would be very off-putting.

 

Just an observation from someone who is very new to the world of nano tanks.

[Islandoftiki]

One thing to keep in mind in Dr. Roy's recommendation for tank size is total water volume and not so much the size of the living space (depending on species). Example, Dr, Roy states, "A 22 gal is too small for a 6 inch O. s. [O. Scyllarus] not because of the physical space but because of the fact that such a small volume of water can quickly go off." Hence why a 40 gallon tank is recommended for an O.Scyllarus. You could have a 20 gallon display with a 20 gallon sump and still have a happy, healthy mantis. Or at least that's how I interpret it.

[jadedanime]

Wow.well that exploded while I was at work. ... Well where to start. I completely agree with tiki with the tank recommendations. That's how I interpreted them as we'll. But if its a matter of husbandry, I've already stated that my husbandry will be spotless. I understand that many may have concerns who do not know me, but I know myself, and you can believe me if you choose. But I can understand that concern.

 

As for patback, do you ever want to upgrade? I mean right now you I don't, but could you see yourself having to do so in the future?( I have room for only a 5 as it will put me at my twenty gallon limit for my dorm (I have the other reef, and a ten gallon fw))

 

I am probably just going to do stock lighting and sunlight after some careful consideration. It's just easier. And safer.

 

I completely agree with the not ideal thing too, I want to know what is needed. I assure you that most small mantises can be happy in a smaller than tank than Roy suggests. However, again as tiki said, I am by no means made up in my decisions. I may actually email SeaLife when I get a chance and ask what color wennerae they currently carry. I would obviously prefer a green one.

 

Ok...didn't quote you all, so I hope you have followed or are paying close attention to the thread.

 

Please continue this discussion, it is helping me tremendously

[jadedanime]

Added flower nem to the list of coral/livestock.

[patback]

Do I have intentions of upgrading? N... No. I mean, I would ideally rather have the little fella in the 15, especially since its just sitting empty, but my motto is, if its not broke, don't fix it. Everything in the mantis tank is spot on and I see a tank transfer with a new sand bed and more rock plus the move being more hazardous than the lack of gallonage. Mantises unfortunately don't have long lives, so I'd rather not risk it at this point.

 

In my last post, I just want to point out that I wasn't singling anyone out. I just feel that if you are in "that ballpark", its up to the individual. Everyone says at minninum 4 foot tanks for yellow tangs, but there has been an increase in 40b owners that throw one in and experience no aggression or health issues.

[Nate17]

Added flower nem to the list of coral/livestock.

Flower anemones are the best

[jadedanime]

Yea I like them just not sure if maxi mini and flower nems should be mixed. Probably an either or deal.

 

Flower anemones are the best

[Nate17]

Flower nems are very easy to care for and will usually only move like a couple inches from where you put them and they stay there. I've never had a maxi mini so I can't help you there but flower nems aren't really harmful either they never hurt my other corals

[jadedanime]

Oh I know they are pretty mellow nems. I'm just worrying that if either decides to take a trip, the tank is only so big, if they touch would there be ww3? Lol

[Nate17]

I'm not sure but that would be quite a site and probably not end up too well haha

[jadedanime]

Lol exactly. So probably a maxi... Just cuz I like them. But I know a place with good flower nems.