What are PAR requirements to grow and keep SPS corals?

[rkum19]

What are PAR requirements to grow and keep SPS corals??

[nanoreef-R]

Wonder how long this thread will stay on topic...

[rkum19]

Just wondering what people have to say

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/1/lines/view

[Bill Nye]

SPS covers a lot of different types of coral....

[markalot]

A lot lower than that article mentions.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/3/aafeature1

 

My research and opinions follow, this is not fact.

 

The answer, as far as i can tell, really is difficult to come by. A coral can survive in a lot lower light than most "like" but the coloration of a coral might be related to too much light, so while an acro can thrive (live well and grow well) in say 500 par it might need 800 par to show good color. Another SPS might color well at and require 500 par and start to bleach at 800.

 

Color of acros is also related to the tanks parameters, which introduces more spin to the equation.

 

Here is an older article trying to use actual tank data to set expectations: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/aafeature

 

Tank #4 is probably the only one that applies to SPS.

[Amphiprion1]

I know recommendations are now much lower than they used to be. At one point, we were keeping 400w Iwasaki lamps powered by PFO ballasts on 75g (or smaller) tanks and growing things well (and very quickly). We now know that not every coral requires this ridiculous intensity and can grow just as well (or better, considering photoinhibition) than before. However, as markalot says, these optima are extremely variable. "SPS," as many know, is a horrible encompassing term, suggesting neither relatedness nor real requirements, which is part what the article takes a stab at, in addition to the older assumptions about care requirements. That doesn't even consider a particular coral's original growing conditions, like depth, water clarity, etc., which can take time to adapt from (or may not be able to adapt from, depending upon the circumstances). Genetics will also play a role, as well, in addition to water parameters and other variables mentioned.

 

Lol, clams have a linear ETR through the highest values...

[doppelganger]

wow I didn't understand any of that...

[markalot]

This link shows some interesting results as well: http://www.melevsreef.com/par_readings.html

 

Here we get readings for some individual corals that appear to be doing fine under a lot less light than "ideal".

[Psychosis]

I wish we had a more accurate database of species/Chlorphyll clades to access. It would be nice if you could ID a certain Montipora, and then match the mechanism behind it to an ideal location with in your tank. Of course, we'd all need to buy PAR/PUR meters at that point...really impractical.

 

That said, we're a hobby driven as much by hear say and speculation as we are by cold hard facts. We couldn't keep SPS until some one figured out that blasting it with light worked, with no measurement involved. It's hard to move away from accepted lore with out more research specific to aquariums being completed. I'll admit that the author with access to the PAM was compelling.

[Paleoreef103]

Honestly, I'd say that if you have to ask then you probably haven't done enough research on SPS. Some are easy (I've seen Montipora capircornis live in about 100 PAR), others will brown out and die in 300 PAR. SPS is really too broad a category for a simple generality to work. Also depends on the spectrum of the light. You could have 900 PAR from a pure green source that wouldn't grow anyting. If you're hitting 200 PAR on your sandbed (from a reasonably thought out fixture), you'll likely be able to keep a variety of SPS in your tank.

[Nano sapiens]

Pavona varians: Figure 5. Onset of Photosaturation in this Pavona specimen occurs at ~110 µmol photons·m²·second (or ~5,500 lux).

 

I have Pavona varians at ~130 PAR and it is slightly bleached at that PAR level, but has proper, deeper coloration down the sides at lower PAR. It would be roasted at 350 PAR.

 

As mentioned, SPS as a category is too vague to be of much use with respect to determining lighting. Even among Acropora, there can be large differences in the amount of light needed by different species/morphs.

[rkum19]

Hmm I was told that SPS reqiure 600 PAR+ for optimal growth and keeping. They said this is based on facts. So what/who is right are 600 plus a requirement to grow most sps in a reef tank envirnment or an sps dominated reef tank?

 

Based on the links provided by markalot, I'm seeing par reading around 200-500 in sps dominated tank. From what I see that tanks look like there healthy and growing. Would these articles represent documented accurate studies for PAR requirements and growth of sps corals?

 

 

Here are their comments

 

Comment 1

Many SPS need 600-800 PAR.

 

 

Comment 2

""""See you are basing everything on your "thoughts" while we are basing it on fact. No hard feelings or anything but you can't go spurting information when you don't have anything to back it up.

 

You can grow some SPS in lower light. But optimal growth for select SPS is in the 600+ PAR range people are discovering."""""

[markalot]

I think the answer is nuanced.

 

In a smaller tank you would not really want the mad growth out of very high par lighting, you'd be fragging every other day. I think the real questions is; What is the lowest PAR that _______________ will grow, and look good?

 

In my 40 I have a fantastic looking acro frag, unknown kind, under AquaticLife T5 and one reefbright LED strip. I doubt it's getting much more than 250 PAR and it's encrusting fairly quickly and looking fantastic. Who's to say it wouldn't look different under brighter lights? All I want the thing to do is look good and stay alive. I need a damn PAR meter. I have an acro very near it, same height, that is only showing good color on the tips. Light? Phosphates? Madness?

 

In the end I will migrate to easy to keep SPS that look good with the conditions I can provide without becoming obsessed with the tank. Too late about the obsessed part I guess.

[Nano sapiens]

"Here are their comments

 

Comment 1

Many SPS need 600-800 PAR.

 

 

Comment 2

""""See you are basing everything on your "thoughts" while we are basing it on fact. No hard feelings or anything but you can't go spurting information when you don't have anything to back it up.

 

You can grow some SPS in lower light. But optimal growth for select SPS is in the 600+ PAR range people are discovering.""""""

 

 

 

I saw those comments somewhere...

 

I think part of the problem is that when someone mentions 'SPS' in a more advanced thread, the tendency is to think 'Acropora'. There are Acros that do well at 600+ PAR, but others do not.

[rkum19]

 

I think the recent Advanced Aquarist article is still a good guide, and it shows that some types of corals really do need higher PAR levels. If you click over the the melvsreef article, you can see that after he upped his PAR to be in the 500-800 range for his SPS he noted improved growth from his corals and everything colored up.

 

The older Advanced Aquarist article really didn't look at some of the corals that typically do need higher PAR levels like acropora. While monti caps and some of the other types are SPS, I have one that's sitting on my sand bed that has basically doubled in size in a few months, that type of SPS doesn't need high light levels.

 

On the other thread we were talking about Kessil lights that would barely put out 100 PAR on the sandbed. If you tried to grow something like a tort under those conditions, even further up in the tank, it would brown out and probably STN after a week. Notice I said "many SPS require 600 - 800 PAR". While you can grow some SPS with lower light levels, others need higher levels to survive and thrive.

 

 

Thank you for your response. My question is regarding sps and not kessil leds.

 

So are you stating that most sps that we as aquarists keep and grow in our reef tank do not require 600plus PAR?

 

 

In melvsreef article I see "most" sps under PARS between 300-500.

[rkum19]

A lot lower than that article mentions.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/3/aafeature1

 

My research and opinions follow, this is not fact.

 

The answer, as far as i can tell, really is difficult to come by. A coral can survive in a lot lower light than most "like" but the coloration of a coral might be related to too much light, so while an acro can thrive (live well and grow well) in say 500 par it might need 800 par to show good color. Another SPS might color well at and require 500 par and start to bleach at 800.

 

Color of acros is also related to the tanks parameters, which introduces more spin to the equation.

 

Here is an older article trying to use actual tank data to set expectations: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/aafeature

 

Tank #4 is probably the only one that applies to SPS.

Thank you for your response and the link!!!! Good stuff. I would consider tank 4 to be sps dominated, but I see that most sps are under 600 PAR except for one in the center. The center one looks to be under 500-700 PAR, what coral is that?

 

 

I have an ATL Miyagi Tort and a ORA Yellow Lantana that are high in my tank with about 400 PAR (I'm having to rely on PAR tests from other people and extrapolate based on my tank and light schedule). I think they could both use more PAR to color up. When I picked up the yellow lantana, the LFS had one that they were trying to get to color up and it was about 4"-6" from their Kessil 350 in a display tank, which would mean it was getting blasted with about 600-800 PAR.

 

I don't really know how to quantify the "most SPS that we as aquarists keep" statement as I don't know what percentage of the different SPS that people keep. I can speak to my tank in that a majority of my SPS are in the top area of my tank in order to get the PAR they want. The only SPS that aren't high in my tank are my two birdsnests, monti caps, red planet acro, and GARF Bonsai, which get their best color when they are lower.

 

You stated that you picked up Yellow Lantana from your LFS that were 4" to 6" from the light in the display tank which means it was blasted at 600-800PAR. How do you know that it was blasted at 600-800 PAR? Did the LFS tell you that? Or did they measure the light with a PAR sensor/meter? Were the Kessil on 100%? You also say your maintaining your Miyagi and the Lantana at about 400 PAR. Are you seeing growth and (coloration equal to that of when your purchased it from your LFS)? Or are the corals dying?

[rkum19]

I wish we had a more accurate database of species/Chlorphyll glades to access. It would be nice if you could ID a certain Montipora, and then match the mechanism behind it to an ideal location with in your tank. Of course, we'd all need to buy PAR/PUR meters at that point...really impractical.

 

That said, we're a hobby driven as much by hear say and speculation as we are by cold hard facts. We couldn't keep SPS until some one figured out that blasting it with light worked, with no measurement involved. It's hard to move away from accepted lore with out more research specific to aquariums being completed. I'll admit that the author with access to the PAM was compelling.

I agree with your statement. I'm genuinly interested in finding out what requirements are needed for certain species. We can then easily seek after lights with labelled PAR info under different tanks to give us an idea.

 

I would expected light manufacturers to have something like this on their labels:

Example 1 : Light Brand A 250$

PAR values 1 were taken while light is over a 14g cube PAR value 2 were taken while light is over a 30g breeder

Value 1 6" from light 3" under water line 600 PAR Value 2 6" from light 3" under water line 500 PAR

8" from light 5" under water line 450 PAR 8" from light 5" under water line 350 PAR

12" fom liight 9" under water line 250 PAR 12" from light 9" under water line 150 PAR

.

.

.

Example 2 : Light Brand B 100$

PAR values 1 were taken while light is over 14g cube PAR value 2 were taken while light is over a 30g breeder

Value 1 6" from light 3" under water line 400 PAR Value 2 6" from light 3" under water line 300 PAR

8" from light 5" under water line 250 PAR 8" from light 5" under water line 150 PAR

12" fom liight 9" under water line 150 PAR 12" from light 9" under water line 50 PAR

 

 

With this information along with an accurate database of coral species and there PAR requirements, you can make a better an extremely accurate judgement to what type of tank your setting up, what you can keep, what you need, and what your budget is.

[Nano sapiens]

Some of Dana Riddle's articles have specific PAR numbers for various corals (photo saturation and photo inhibition).

 

Examples:

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/3/aafeature2

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature2

 

I have found a lot of info with a Google search on 'PAR' and 'the coral of you choice'.

 

PAR is a bit tricky when comparing MH, T5 and LED numbers. For example, people report MH & T5 PAR for an ORA Red Planet at 225-250 PAR to get both red and green base coloration, but similar coloration with only ~150 PAR LEDs. Quantum PAR sensors seem to have more difficulty accurately reading the nearly monochromatic light generated by LEDs (especailly at the ends of the visible spectrum), so this needs to taken into account when taking readings.

[rkum19]

I sent a couple emails to 4 major LED manufactors. I choose LED since there the most popular and more in demand. I ask if they could provide me with PAR readings for their lights. First to respond was Kessil. This is what they had to say.

 

Thank you for your interest in Kessil Lights. Out of curiosity, how did you hear about us? PAR measures the entire visual spectrum. Since corals only react to a specific range of wavelengths, PAR is not an accurate measure for coral growth. We do not measure PAR on our lights. Kessil lights have a proprietary UV mix, specifically designed to maximize coral growth. Coral will react to UV light through color pigmentation. We tested and researched what wavelengths of UV light would be best to stimulate coral growth and incorporated that mix into our light design. Other LED companies have tried to copy what we have developed, but have not come close. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

 

 

Still waiting responses from ECOTECH, Aqua Illumination, and Maxspect

[Nano sapiens]

Technically, Kessil is correct, but the equipment needed to measure specific wavelengths and their intensities is not in most hobbyists' budgets. Reading PAR, however, is relatively easy and gives an idea of the intensity in the photosynthetically active 400-700nm range. Assuming we have a proper spectrum of light from our LEDs, then we can get fairly close to optimal.

[rkum19]

This would be a good articale to refer to when buying lights, although it would still be nice to include this on their packaging.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/aafeature

[rkum19]

I'm basing the PAR from the Kessil on other users that have taken PAR measurements. As we know Kessil won't even tell you what types and colors of LED's are in their fixtures, much less provide PAR numbers, so it's a bit of a guessing game. The fixture at the store had both knobs turned up on high and their coral guy said that's how they get those to color up as that coral in particular tend to get brown when they ship.

 

The yellow lantana was brown when I picked it up since it had just come from the Marshall Islands. The Miyagi was a frag that had been cut a week or two prior and I picked it up directly from ATL. I turned my LED's down when I added these to the tank. The Miyagi has lost color, but is growing. The Lantana is slowly gaining color as I ramp my lights back up (it's a notoriously slow grower, so I wouldn't expect to see any growth).

 

What I can say is that I don't yet see any evidence of bleaching or even lightening of the tissue that might indicate that either of these is currently getting too much light.

So is it fair to say that you infact do not know what PARs the two corals mentioned above were running unders. Not trying to start an argument, but your now stating that your playing a guessing game when measuring the PARS at the LFS. You also stated that "many SPS corals need 600-800 PARS". I've not seen any documented facts to believe your statements true. Yet I've seen several documented articales from different aquarists with "photos" that prove successfull growth of "many" if not "most" sps coral species that we keep in our reef tank under 500 PAR.

 

It could be later discovered that your statement is true, but until there is document/researched evidence I cannot beleive your statement.

 

Thank you for your info regarding the yellow lantana, from your observation are these hardy sps corals, also will it stay yellow or turn pink? I'm tempted to get one. What are your water Parameters?

[rkum19]

I was also told that a Kessil a350w wouldnt be adequate for a 14 gallon biocube sps dominated tank....

 

Is this true?

 

I i would think that an a150w would be suffice.

[markalot]

I was also told that a Kessil a350w wouldnt be adequate for a 14 gallon biocube sps dominated tank....

 

Is this true?

 

I i would think that an a150w would be suffice.

 

As long as you keep asking what is TRUE you're driving down the wrong road. True is this hobby is very subjective and unless an actual scientific experiment with controls is involved facts are elusive.

 

Did a brighter light improve corals?

Did anything else change when the light was upgraded?

Did someone upgrade lighting and at the same time fix a phosphate issue?

Did someone upgrade lighting and at the same time fix a flow issue?

Did a brighter light really make the coral color better, or did it just speed up the process?

Etc. etc.

 

If you're overly concerned I would simply take all input and experience related to the subject, choose a light that you're comfortable with and that has a dimmer, and roll with it.

[rkum19]

As long as you keep asking what is TRUE you're driving down the wrong road. True is this hobby is very subjective and unless an actual scientific experiment with controls is involved facts are elusive.

 

Did a brighter light improve corals?

Did anything else change when the light was upgraded?

Did someone upgrade lighting and at the same time fix a phosphate issue?

Did someone upgrade lighting and at the same time fix a flow issue?

Did a brighter light really make the coral color better, or did it just speed up the process?

Etc. etc.

 

If you're overly concerned I would simply take all input and experience related to the subject, choose a light that you're comfortable with and that has a dimmer, and roll with it.

Most of the statements that I've submitted were based on assumptions and "guessing", no involved experiments were conducted to conclude their statements. I find it very upsetting when I post an experienced opinion or question and I'm then bombarded with misleading biased information.

 

All of my the lights that I've purchased were based on experience from other users on this site. Their positive and negative input influenced my decision as well as many others. I'm greatful that I found Nano-reef, it has greatly improve my knowledge and enjoyment in this hobby. Its neccessary we provide the best truthful experienced and information, wouldn't you agree?