Jump to content
Milad LEDGroupBuy.com

(TV UV HV) Violet showdown - LEDGroupBuy vs SemiLED

Recommended Posts

A little background....

 

I received a few emails from people asking if we carry SemiLED and after a few emails back and forth it turned out they considered the SemiLED much more powerful than the LEDs LEDGroupBuy.com carried for the violets.

 

Why did they think this? Well because some of the marketing being thrown around on other sites to sell LEDs ends up being a joke.

 

Often times specs are shown @ higher current ratings or lower core temps to show a higher number.

 

So I decided to run some test expecting to see some very similar stats.....

 

I encourage anyone else with a power meter to do the same.

 

The lineup

What I will be doing is putting up the top binned SemiLED against the 405nm and 430nm Violets at LEDGroupBuy.com

 

 

This is what a 420nm SemiLED looks like up close:

SEMI-LED-420.jpg

 

Notice the gold strips on each side, that is the main indicator (S35L-U).

 

The tool used to measure them is a FieldMaxII-TO by Coherent

area set to 10mm

wavelength set to 405, 420 and 430 to match up with the LEDs.

Distance of LEDs from meter: 13mm

 

 

The results:

405 nm from LEDGroupBuy

43.5 mW/cm2

3.5vF @ 700mA

 

420nm SemiLED

30.4 mW/cm2

3.5vF @ 700mA

 

430nm from LEDGroupBuy

44.5 mW/cm2

3.3vF @700mA

 

 

Less power, more light, win win for the 430nm.

 

Please note that the readings of mW/cm2 I posted are not the same as most of the spec sheets which are mW/sr.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

This is great!

I also wanted to write to you with a question about the new line of diodes. :P

 

In fact here in Russia also have seller and you are his competitor...
Often comes to public charge you with fraud.

The main argument is that Semiled-leader in the production of diodes in the UV.

 

In Semiled is even more efficient LED-N35-UV than S35-UV.
But it is not so important. Your diodes look good.

 

Just would like to ask you to spend a little more time and make a detailed report on the process of testing diodes. This would dispel controversy.

Still do not understand the results of measuring 430nm diode. Why the efficiency is the same as the 405 nm?

 

/////

By the way there is another know-how that will reduce the temperature of the crystals at 20-25°C - SinkPad mcpcb.

Look at their products. When your sales cost will not change. But the cooling performance improves greatly.

P.S This is my MakersLED- [1][2][3]. Thank you very much for it.

P.P.S Sorry for my english

Share this post


Link to post

It's not exactly a 1:1 test comparing different wavelengths. Earlier Epistar sourced Violet leds also tended to burn the attached optics they were held in. I have quite a few here that did over time. I didn't see that mentioned in the test.

 

The newer Epistar sourced Violets are definitely a step up in quality though, but a more non-biased test would be a 405nm Semiled vs 405nm Epistar, and a 415-420nm Semiled vs a 410-420nm Epistar.

 

SemiLEDS have been one of the main Violet producers out there, which says something considering Cree doesn't even make them yet. A good build would use all three of those violets.

Share this post


Link to post

Just because someone is a main producer of "X" doesn't mean the producer has any sort of market cornered concerning quality. Completely irrelevant factoid you threw in there...

 

Good build having all three.. also highly arguable lol

Share this post


Link to post

Just because someone is a main producer of "X" doesn't mean the producer has any sort of market cornered concerning quality. Completely irrelevant factoid you threw in there...

 

Good build having all three.. also highly arguable lol

Care to go into detail about any of what you just said? I just see a smug statement with nothing backing it up. I've got plenty here, just waiting on you.

Share this post


Link to post

It's not exactly a 1:1 test comparing different wavelengths. Earlier Epistar sourced Violet leds also tended to burn the attached optics they were held in. I have quite a few here that did over time. I didn't see that mentioned in the test.

 

The newer Epistar sourced Violets are definitely a step up in quality though, but a more non-biased test would be a 405nm Semiled vs 405nm Epistar, and a 415-420nm Semiled vs a 410-420nm Epistar.

 

SemiLEDS have been one of the main Violet producers out there, which says something considering Cree doesn't even make them yet. A good build would use all three of those violets.

SemiLED doesnt make a 430nm and thats what I really wanted to compare it to. No matter though, considering it didnt even get close to the 405nm. The power meter tests on the wavelength selected so for each tested, I did adjust it to give the fairest results.

Truthfully, I thought they would all get very close in ratings considering everyone hypes the SemiLEDs so much. A full .2v+ less power and more light! was a bit shocking.

 

I encourage others to do the test with theirs because I don't want my test results to be bias.

 

 

 

 

This is great!

I also wanted to write to you with a question about the new line of diodes. :P

 

In fact here in Russia also have seller and you are his competitor...
Often comes to public charge you with fraud.

The main argument is that Semiled-leader in the production of diodes in the UV.

 

In Semiled is even more efficient LED-N35-UV than S35-UV.

But it is not so important. Your diodes look good.

 

Just would like to ask you to spend a little more time and make a detailed report on the process of testing diodes. This would dispel controversy.

Still do not understand the results of measuring 430nm diode. Why the efficiency is the same as the 405 nm?

 

/////

By the way there is another know-how that will reduce the temperature of the crystals at 20-25°C - SinkPad mcpcb.

Look at their products. When your sales cost will not change. But the cooling performance improves greatly.

 

P.S This is my MakersLED- [1][2][3]. Thank you very much for it.

P.P.S Sorry for my english

 

Thanks for the feedback yury (build looks great btw). What do you want to know about the testing process? The equipment that was used to test it was: http://www.coherent.com/products/?1023/FieldMaxII-TO

Share this post


Link to post
You see, I have enough if you write the test results and I'll be inclined to believe them.

But for many this is not enough. Need to do a test with visual pictures in the style of an independent examination :)


Unfortunately we have a negative experience with the 390-430nm LED, and because of this, your diodes reputation "tarnished"

Share this post


Link to post

 

You see, I have enough if you write the test results and I'll be inclined to believe them.
But for many this is not enough. Need to do a test with visual pictures in the style of an independent examination :)

 

Kinda awkward request, ill see what pictures I could take...... maybe of the readings?

Share this post


Link to post

Well, as usual, to create a level playing field diodes.

Mount them on the same radiator. Connected via a single driver.

Further pictures from instrument readings for each LED. Photo preferably with a test bench in the background


For example, in the style of thermal analysis(I've left a little viral advertising SinkPad, I would like to see your diodes on them :P ):

1190711_SinkPad_Thermal_Picture_R.jpg


Share this post


Link to post

this is a very important discussion, especially concerning thermal transfer and sustainability of the optics. also considering the debate at how many mA to run these 400-425nm LEDs with, with active cooling.

Share this post


Link to post

this is a very important discussion, especially concerning thermal transfer and sustainability of the optics. also considering the debate at how many mA to run these 400-425nm LEDs with, with active cooling.

As long as they're cooled, they easily run at 700ma. I've used many violet LEDs (several from Aquastyle, a dozen from Milad, a dozen from Steve's) and I've never had a single one fizzle out.

 

The only ones I've had the optics flake out on me were the ones from Aquastyle (but those were also the ones I used the longest, so we'll see how the next few months go with the other violets I have now).

Share this post


Link to post
You just do not know how things really are.

I have data that top Semiled heated to 100 ° C at a current of 0.7A (at normal mcpcb).


With less efficient diodes even worse...

Share this post


Link to post

I can say that the newer sourced Violets do much better. I've run several for awhile and haven't run into the burnt optic issue. These were not just Milad's, but almost ALL of the previous versions of Epistar sourced violets that eventually burnt the optics.

 

The 430nm and 405nm are a nice upgrade over previous violets. A 410-420nm one would be nice to have also though. I love the 430nm so far. The 405nm I need more time with. It's a little concerning to see 410-420nm on the packaging of the 405nm, considering they are usually correct as written. May just be a production typo though.

 

Semileds have been running for 6+ months for me with no issues. This was why I initially preferred them. The new Violets Milad has are definitely worth running though. Running all 3 creates a tremendous effect that has been very positive so far.

Share this post


Link to post

The 430nm and 405nm are a nice upgrade over previous violets. A 410-420nm one would be nice to have also though. I love the 430nm so far. The 405nm I need more time with. It's a little concerning to see 410-420nm on the packaging of the 405nm, considering they are usually correct as written. May just be a production typo though.

 

If i had a penny for the emails I have received on this! Its not a typo but its not what customers expect. Its the dominant wavelength which is what your eyes are going to consider the color to be. Of course everyone is more interested in the peak so we are starting to change the labels.

 

Yury ill see what I can do to get a side by side test. Cant really do it with a power meter because you are measuring an area at a time so its one LED after another. Maybe ill get one of the guys to make a video of it.

Share this post


Link to post

If i had a penny for the emails I have received on this! Its not a typo but its not what customers expect. Its the dominant wavelength which is what your eyes are going to consider the color to be. Of course everyone is more interested in the peak so we are starting to change the labels.

 

Ah, makes sense. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post

Care to go into detail about any of what you just said? I just see a smug statement with nothing backing it up. I've got plenty here, just waiting on you.

there are plenty of great lights over great tanks with great coral possessing great color that do not utilize all 3...

 

Sorry if you find the fact that your equally sparse statement isn't dispositive "smug".

 

 

Anyways...

 

Thanks for the tests milad! Always great to see some real numbers.

Share this post


Link to post

What sensor were you using to measure the power? What manufacturer produces the diode in the LED emitters you use?

Share this post


Link to post

As the LEDs are using 120 degree optics in both situations, can you do a test which uses the full 19mm area at a distance of 11 mm away from the sensor to rule out different optical qualities. As there is no datasheet for either the SemiLED or the unknown brand you use, it would be hard to tell whether there is a difference in optical quality without using the full 120 degree spread. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post

there are plenty of great lights over great tanks with great coral possessing great color that do not utilize all 3...

 

Sorry if you find the fact that your equally sparse statement isn't dispositive "smug".

 

 

Anyways...

 

Thanks for the tests milad! Always great to see some real numbers.

 

I was expecting at least something relevant. There are plenty of tanks where people changed back to MH after trying leds as well, so that tells us nothing.

 

One of the big pushes in LED lighting has been for full spectrum builds. It's been shown that the 400nm-440nm range can be very beneficial to coral, but is lacking in most led lighting. Comparing spectrum plots to many MH/T5 setups, the MH/T5 have quite a bit of output in the 400-440nm range, where leds have a small peak at 420nm if violets are used, or almost none at all.

 

Violets first started coming out around the 405nm and 420nm peak range. Milad's 430nm violets have been the first to gain significant output in the 430nm range over other violets, and his 405nm leds offer higher output than other similar violets. The spectrum plot of his 430nm violets shows a significant peak in the 430-440nm range, but less so around 420nm. Adding a 420nm peak violet along with the 405nm and 430nm violet rounds out the spectrum plot and provides a nice, even amount of output in the 400-440nm range, filling in the gaps that each one would give if they were used separately.

 

Along with royal blue, OCW, and neutral whites, there is no better combo for spectrum being offered in any commercial fixtures. Mimicking the output of MH/T5 has always provided excellent results for my tanks, so I will continue to do so.

Share this post


Link to post

Sure but theoretically you might like to have 80 led all with different peaks to perfectly cover everything you might have or need or want... not very feasible tho. And entirely unnecessary.

 

In reality, your suggested trifecta hasn't proven to be necessary at all to get good color and growth... the reason being that the chlorophyll utilizing 420nm actually utilizes a band of wavelengths, not just a single specific wavelength. And in fact 420nm isn't even the maximum absorption... 430nm is lol.. and like 401...

 

And like I said before... current LED options without your suggested trifecta already provide excellent growth and color.

 

All I'm saying is that your suggestion that a good build needs all 3 is unsupported.

Share this post


Link to post

Sure but theoretically you might like to have 80 led all with different peaks to perfectly cover everything you might have or need or want... not very feasible tho. And entirely unnecessary.

 

In reality, your suggested trifecta hasn't proven to be necessary at all to get good color and growth... the reason being that the chlorophyll utilizing 420nm actually utilizes a band of wavelengths, not just a single specific wavelength. And in fact 420nm isn't even the maximum absorption... 430nm is lol.. and like 401...

 

And like I said before... current LED options without your suggested trifecta already provide excellent growth and color.

 

All I'm saying is that your suggestion that a good build needs all 3 is unsupported.

 

Running Violets, reds, cyans, or neutral whites in Led fixtures were unsupported for a long time too. I would think very few, if any are running all 3 yet. Based on everything we've all picked up on, it could work out really well. I enjoy testing the boundaries of what is possible, as many of us jumped in on NW, red, cyan, and violets before commercial companies even thought about them, with great results.

 

So far, it hasn't caused any damage, but yes more time with it is needed to see if it can provide a boost in growth, health, or color.

Share this post


Link to post

Dive in and share your thoughts!

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recommended Discussions

×