Things to consider when deciding on the sandbed

[penfold2]

I see the part where Shimek talks about the halo effect, but I don't see any information backing this up or anything where he says he sampled different areas of his sandbed to determine that actually lives or does not live around the edges as you stated.

 

There's not a lot of hard data on sandbeds in reef aquaria, so until I find a better source than an aquarist who received his doctorate studying marine sediment ecosystems, I'm inclined to listen to him.

 

What I do know, is that Shimek himself had a 1' x 3' sandbed where he says the fauna was similar to the levels found in the ocean, so he seems to have disproved his own recommendations years earlier.

 

No, he simply proved that with enough care, one can make a DSB function in a less than ideal footprint. But he has always recommended larger footprints capable of sustaining stable populations with considerably less effort.

 

 

Additionally, the referenced boards are from 2006 shortly before Shimek reversed course and changed his recommendations and started advocating feeding the sandbed to maintain the fauna.

 

AFAIK he has always recommended supplementing the infauna at least once a year. Feeding obviously helps maintain populations, but is not a substitute for population supplementation in tanks that are usually near or below the minimum recommended footprint.

 

Is fauna in the sand bed even beneficial? If there is leftover food that rots, it creates ammonia which gets processed by nitrifying bacteria. Should we particularly care if something in the sand bed eats the leftover food, poops, and ultimately dies in the tank? It's generally the same result. I get that Shimek is infatuated with sand critters, but if I have to feed my sand bed, as Shimek currently recommends, to maintain the population, then it would seem that it's just adding extra bioload. Most reefers probably just are interested in the denitrifying aspects of a sand bed.

 

DSB's are about much more than just denitrification. As Dr. Shimek stated on his forum:

 

...these [sandbeds with no infauna] are denitrators, not sand beds. You can make one that is just as efficient by simply coiling a lot of airline tubing in a bucket and running water slowly through it. Bacteria grow on the walls of the tube and denitrify the water passing through it.

 

If denitrification is all you're looking for, then there's really no need for a DSB. Perhaps we can all agree on that.

[penfold2]

 

Here's the link where Shimek outright states that he changed his mind, which I posted on the first page of this thread, which you are either purposefully ignoring or just not informed about Shimek's continually changing recommendations:

 

There's no need to be so argumentative. A lot has been said in this thread and I simply missed it. Skimming through it now, I see he has changed his stance on that particular point. And it sounds like a good thing for those that would like to maintain sand bed fauna.

 

Other than denitrification, what other benefits do you see by having a deep sand bed? Simply poo-pooing a shallow sand bed and saying they aren't really "sandbeds" as some sort of prejudiced insult isn't really particularly enlightening.

 

I'm not poo-pooing shallow sand beds. I stated earlier that I use them myself. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is a fundamental difference between a sand bed with a healthy infauna, and one without. I think a big advantage of sand bed fauna is the production of plankton, which then feeds corals and other organisms. Natural plankton production is something just about every tank could benefit from. Some people also find these tiny organisms to be just as interesting as any other inhabitants in our tanks.

 

As I noted in my first post, Richard Harker actually studied sand beds and their composition in 2004 and dispelled most of what Shimek had said in previous decades. Randy Holmes Farley has also done similar studies and found the same thing.

 

Do you have a link to Harker's study? I'd like to read it if it's available online.

[-E-]

Just curious... When ppl vacuum the sb, does that mean replacing the sand or just stirring it up and siphoning?

 

Can/should I replace my coarse sand with fine sand? Will my surface powerhead blow it around (20 long is only 12"H).

[Nano sapiens]

47 minutes ago, -E- said:

Just curious... When ppl vacuum the sb, does that mean replacing the sand or just stirring it up and siphoning?

 

Can/should I replace my coarse sand with fine sand? Will my surface powerhead blow it around (20 long is only 12"H).

 

'Blast from the past' thread

 

You can replace some of the sand, but IME it isn't necessary if it's regularly maintained (detritus removal).  My current SB is nearly 9 years old and also includes a good percentage from my previous 55g.

 

Yes, a strong current can blow fine sand all over.  Some have success with a mix of fine/coarser sand (what I use, but I don't have very high flow).  You'll need to experiment to determine what works best for your system.

[Clown79]

My personal experience from 4 different tanks used with 4 different substrates and my favourite is caribsea fiji pink 1-1.5" 

 

Perfect size. No sand storms, easy to vacuum without losing sand.

 

I used caribsea hawaiian black 2" and the grain size was too big. No matter how much I vacuumed, detritus was constantly trapped which caused issues. Even after sucking up and removing sand to 1" the problems persisted. i finally removed it.

 

Replaced with caribsea livesand. The grain size is smaller than the fiji so sand storms are easy to occur, vacuuming it can be difficult without losing some. 

 

My previous tanks had oolite grain- way to small. Not easy to vacuum so only stirring it and sand storms were an issue.

 

I used crushed coral in my 55g. Vacuuming that was hard.

 

Never tried a dsb and don't really care for the look but many dedicated hobbiests have success with them.

 

[samnaz]

On 5/31/2017 at 2:39 AM, Clown79 said:

My personal experience from 4 different tanks used with 4 different substrates and my favourite is caribsea fiji pink 1-1.5" 

 

Perfect size. No sand storms, easy to vacuum without losing sand.

 

I used caribsea hawaiian black 2" and the grain size was too big. No matter how much I vacuumed, detritus was constantly trapped which caused issues. Even after sucking up and removing sand to 1" the problems persisted. i finally removed it.

 

Replaced with caribsea livesand. The grain size is smaller than the fiji so sand storms are easy to occur, vacuuming it can be difficult without losing some. 

 

My previous tanks had oolite grain- way to small. Not easy to vacuum so only stirring it and sand storms were an issue.

 

I used crushed coral in my 55g. Vacuuming that was hard.

 

Never tried a dsb and don't really care for the look but many dedicated hobbiests have success with them.

 

 

I'm curious, did you rinse the sand at all beforehand?

 

I have Fiji Pink in my current tank which I'm not very happy with, but I don't have experience with any other sand. Perhaps a dust cloud is inevitable when the sanded is disturbed even in the slightest, no matter the substrate.

 

I decided on Caribsea Special Grade Reef for the new tank I'm setting up soon. 

[1891Bro]

29 minutes ago, samnaz said:

 

I'm curious, did you rinse the sand at all beforehand?

 

I have Fiji Pink in my current tank which I'm not very happy with, but I don't have experience with any other sand. Perhaps a dust cloud is inevitable when the sanded is disturbed even in the slightest, no matter the substrate.

 

I decided on Caribsea Special Grade Reef for the new tank I'm setting up soon. 

Always, always, rinse. I don't care what the live sand bag instructions say. Rinse that nasty cloudy shit out of it. A rinse WILL NOT kill bacteria!

 

damn it. I wasn't gonna reply to a ####ing zombie thread. 

[Clown79]

Nope i didn't but I don't have dust storms. My tank cleared up about 2 hrs after i set it up.

 

What I meant by sand storms was due to the grain size, no matter how strong my flow is, it isn't blowing around everywhere.

 

My other tank has a smaller grain which is hard to vacuum and the sand blows around easily.

[-E-]

Did not change sand. Just siphoned/cleaned it. 

 

Removed the phosguard (aluminum oxide). Snails more active. Paly looks better. Still waiting for zoas to open.

 

Replaced chemi pure blue (high grade carbon+resins) with chemi pure elite (low grade carbon+resins+gfo). Algae seems to be getting under control.

 

Phosnet costs 5x more than phosguard so I'll stick with cpe for now... unless someone makes an argument for cpb+phosnet (gfo).

 

Thanks for all the responses!