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Do you vacuum or stir your sand bed?


racer_X_123

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Used to vacuum. Don't really anymore and nothing bad has happened.

 

I keep a 2 inch sand bed and I blow the sand off every other day. I use a turkey baster but only blow hard enough to disturb the top 1 inch of the sand bed. I find this keeps the sand bed looking clean and feeds the corals at the same time. Un eaten detritus eventually gets caught in my filter sock (300micron) or taken up by my skimmer. I have been doing this for years and it works well for me.

Yup, this is a great way to do it! Not vacuuming, but just blowing off some debris to get cleaned up by the skimmer and filter sock (or filter floss).

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Used to vacuum. Don't really anymore and nothing bad has happened.

 

After 6 months or so if you see your Nitrates rising for no good reason, then it's time to vacuum.

 

Used to vacuum. Don't really anymore and nothing bad has happened.

 

After 6 months or so if you see your Nitrates rising for no good reason, then it's time to vacuum.

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I don't really vacuum my sand bed. It has a layer of fine sand on top and coarser (but not crushed coral) sand on the bottom. I bought uncured florida live rock with a lot of life on it, so I don't want to mess up my ecosystem bu siphoning. If it starts to look bad though, I might siphon to see what comes out.

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I like all the different ideas on this subject, I find it very helpful.

 

Is there a section in the forums that discusses what to do when you find a toxic sandbed? My neighbor has a nano that she has had for 2 years and she bought it used. She doesn't regularly "clean the sand bed by any method.

 

I was taking care of her tank while she was out of town and did a water change for her. I vacuum when I change water and so started to vacuum hers as well. The sand bed was very hard and calcified. When I mistakenly forced through that layer the water coming out immediately smelled of rotting material and black mud. I sucked up the area very carefully and could find no traces of an issue after completing the water change.

 

The tank is doing ok but not thriving and I wonder if this could be part of the reason? Can someone point me in the right direction to start reading up on this so that I can offer her a solution to her toxic sand bed?

 

Krazie :o

The smell was hydrogen sulfide. It's not something you really want in the tank. Anaerobic zones, where no water moves through, is where this happens. Deep, or shallow sandbed. Once the upper layer of sand gets hard (many reasons why that could have happened... careless dosing, extremely low PH, no clean up crew, just to name 3) that tends to happen. It's much more common with deep sanbeds, though.

 

As for a sub forum, you are in it. The only other sub forum you might find some info on it might be water chemistry, but I rather doubt it. You'd be better off using google, IMO.

 

Here is a very basic discussion on DSB's where hydrogen sulfide is briefly discussed.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...195696&st=0

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The smell was hydrogen sulfide. It's not something you really want in the tank. Anaerobic zones, where no water moves through, is where this happens. Deep, or shallow sandbed. Once the upper layer of sand gets hard (many reasons why that could have happened... careless dosing, extremely low PH, no clean up crew, just to name 3) that tends to happen. It's much more common with deep sanbeds, though.

 

It's a shallow bed (about 1.5" deep) I've never seen this happen to a shallow bed before. Should I tear it down and rinse the sand or replace it with new live sand? I really don't want to cause a big cycle but I know I don't want this in the system.

 

The CUC consists of 8 hermits (mixed red, blue, gold legs)

5 astria snails

3 other snails (look like apple snails to me)

1 nass snail

1 brittle star

 

There was a sandsifting star in their that we found dead and removed right before she left for her trip.

 

At this point I know two things. One, I know she doesn't want this in her environment and Two, we want to do whatever will impact the system the least. The tank is fairly established although the hammer looks a bit stressed (not fully extending but no necrosis), so the smaller the impact to the system the better. Thanks for your help on this. Like I said I've never seen this before in about 20 years of reef keeping. Krazie

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Was she ever dosing anything?

 

Best bet, IME, would be to vacuum out portions of the sand and replace each portion with new sand. No need for live sand. There is plenty of bacteria within the system to re seed the new sand. By doing it in 1/3 or 1/4 each week or two, you'll keep any cycle to a minimum.

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Was she ever dosing anything?

 

Best bet, IME, would be to vacuum out portions of the sand and replace each portion with new sand. No need for live sand. There is plenty of bacteria within the system to re seed the new sand. By doing it in 1/3 or 1/4 each week or two, you'll keep any cycle to a minimum.

 

Drip dosed AquaVitro calcium over night one day a week between the weekly water changes and AquaVitro eight four a day before and day after calcium. So schedule is this:

Friday = 4gal water change

Saturday = nothing

Monday = AquaVitro eight four

Tuesday = AquaVitro Calcium

Wednesday = AquaVitro eight four

Thursday = nothing

 

Any theories on the impact to bacterial colonies during freshwater rinse? I've read quite a bit on this and best I can tell the bacteria are the same in marine and freshwater environments. Thus I was thinking that a a good flush with temperature controlled non-clorinated freshwater would not significantly impact the colonies and would not really result in much of a cycle. Thoughts? Krazie fingerscrossed

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I've never used aquavitro, so I have no idea what the recommended dosing schedule is. However, I'd guess it's meant to be used at roughly the same time. I usually dose alk roughly 10 minutes after dosing cal. What I believe is happening is precipitation. This could be caused by dosing too much , or dosing on alternate days, or a combination of the 2. Since I've never dosed on alternating days, this may have some limited effect. I really don't know.

 

You probably already understand it, but here is something that might help.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php

Basically, when calcium is above normal saturation levels, raising the pH (dosing alk) results in excess cal dropping from solution.

 

As for a FW flush. Sure, nitrosoma and nitrobacter are all the same species whether in salt water, fresh water, or on land. However, there are more organisms aiding in the nitrogen cycle than just those two, especially in salt water. Whether or not FW flushing impacts those, I have no idea. I've done a FW flush on individual rocks in an established system without any noticeable ill effects, but that's somewhat different than what you are proposing.

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I've never used aquavitro, so I have no idea what the recommended dosing schedule is. However, I'd guess it's meant to be used at roughly the same time. I usually dose alk roughly 10 minutes after dosing cal. What I believe is happening is precipitation. This could be caused by dosing too much , or dosing on alternate days, or a combination of the 2. Since I've never dosed on alternating days, this may have some limited effect. I really don't know.

 

You probably already understand it, but here is something that might help.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php

Basically, when calcium is above normal saturation levels, raising the pH (dosing alk) results in excess cal dropping from solution.

 

As for a FW flush. Sure, nitrosoma and nitrobacter are all the same species whether in salt water, fresh water, or on land. However, there are more organisms aiding in the nitrogen cycle than just those two, especially in salt water. Whether or not FW flushing impacts those, I have no idea. I've done a FW flush on individual rocks in an established system without any noticeable ill effects, but that's somewhat different than what you are proposing.

 

Here are some pics of the tank. An almost full FTS and a closer shot of the hammer if they help.

 

IMAG0683.jpg

IMAG0707.jpg

 

The hammer is looking a bit more closed since the vacuum day. The Zoos and Palys are a bit less open and the Xenia have dropped some heads. If things don't improve I'm going to have to do something more drastic. We have done 5 - 50% WCs and replaced all the media in the basket and reactor and added charcoal to try and help with anything organic that did escape.

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Xenia doesn't die unless one thing is present... Ammonia. Even the slightest amount of ammonia will kill it. Nitrates, phosphates, none of that stuff will phase it.

 

You've got cyanobacteria all over the sandbed. Does it stay fairly localized to the sandbed? If so, that is the culprit. I'm guessing between ammonia and cyano on the sand that the sandbed is crashing. The time for being careful is pretty well past. I'd say it's time to remove the entire sandbed and hope for the best.

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Xenia doesn't die unless one thing is present... Ammonia. Even the slightest amount of ammonia will kill it. Nitrates, phosphates, none of that stuff will phase it.

 

You've got cyanobacteria all over the sandbed. Does it stay fairly localized to the sandbed? If so, that is the culprit. I'm guessing between ammonia and cyano on the sand that the sandbed is crashing. The time for being careful is pretty well past. I'd say it's time to remove the entire sandbed and hope for the best.

 

I did see a small amount of Ammonia after the sulfide incident but it was very small and was gone in less than a day. I attributed that to the Xenia loosing heads as well. It is looking better now and pulsing very actively again.

 

The Cyano is a strange thing. It is seasonal around here and only happens during the winter. Many reef keeping friends who experience it as well every year around this time. We attribute it to some change in the water but since we use RO/DI we aren't sure what can make it through that would cause Cyano. The tank is free of it the rest of the year and the maintenance doesn't change at all. It's not just localized to the sandbed it makes it's way to the rock too. The turkey baster is a couple of times a day tool for a few months. Another one of those mysteries that I have yet to figure out and not just with this tank. My Tests and LFS tests all show no phosphates so I can't fault that for the cyano. Any Ideas on that would be great too.

 

I think I am going to plan to just pull the sand and replace it all this weekend. I pulled a small area (about a cups worth) of the sand and rinsed it really good with RO/DI water and even after soaking it in 5 gallons of water the Hydrogen Sulfide smell would not go away. I figure it is pretty well saturated in the sand and even flushing it won't get it all. I'm not sure how long it would take for the sand to release it all but I don't want to stress the tank to find out and sand is pretty cheap. I also want to make sure that the rock isn't sitting on the sand so that the CUC can keep it clean.

 

Any other thoughts are always welcomed. Krazie

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  • 10 months later...
Reefsharkclark

Hello all- just my opinion on what I've discovered in my own tanks. 55 reef, 110 reef, 260 predator

I never vacuumed my sand before, had tanks for around 3 years now(always learning) and i had been doing regular water changes to all 3, almost every week or so.. just recently, (4-5months) I have had them vacuumed, only the front where it's reachable, and around front rocks- start off 1 section at a time, every water change a diiferent section or could really stir up an old tank. I basically cyphen out sand until my water change (amount of water) is out. Then next change do the next section and so on. My sand bed is 3-4" deep in all tanks, maybe a little deeper in predator, so far has been a possitive difference! Haven't lost any fish since, nobodys sick, and tank stays cleaner and brighter(sand etc). All are healthy and only diff so far is less nitrates, &cleaner water for a longer period of time! Doing water changes every 2-3 weeks and all is great. Could go longer for sure-snails- lots of crabs-shrimps, all still alive, along with clowns, show purple tang, Blenny, sailfin, lobster,damsels,queen angel,chromis,cardinals-

So no issues thus far for cleaning deep in the sand, (front only) just positive,.. Hope this helps..any changes ill def post-RSC

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have black sand unless it is turned over w/the WC it will not look good. I assume my anerobic bacteria needs are taken care of by the sand I can't get to under rocks. About 3/5ths the tank's footprint.

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I dislike vacuuming sand, so I don't use it

 

'Substrate is the devil'...LOL.

 

I like substrate and vacuuming takes all of 10 minutes a week. But to each his/her own :)

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I have black sand unless it is turned over w/the WC it will not look good. I assume my anerobic bacteria needs are taken care of by the sand I can't get to under rocks. About 3/5ths the tank's footprint.

 

One can likely get away with not vacuuming under the rocks for a long time if the open areas are regularly vacuumed. But it's amazing how much crud collects underneath in just 1/2 year due to advection. It will no doubt degrade the system if left unattended for a long time, so that's why I make the effort at least twice a year to vacuum under all the base rocks (but not all at the same time).

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lnglostsurfer

I have black sand in my tank and it's about 1.5" deep. Each water change I pick off like 2 grains deep just to pick up any algae that builds on the surface. I have maybe 2 tablespoons of sand in the bucket each week when I do water changes. Other than that I just blow off the surface with a turkey baster and let the nassarius snails do their thing of mixing it up. Never had a problem

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Never had a problem

 

How old is your tank?

 

I, too, 'never had a problem' with not vacuuming until the tank was a bit over a year old. High nitrates, pest algae and cyano were the first clues that something was amiss.

 

I can guarantee you that my 12g system would never have survived to 5+ years without regular, aggressive detritus removal via vacuuming, turkey basting the LR, etc..

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i vacuum my sand bed every water change. helps churn up the sand keeping it white. i dont like how it gets all packed down and rock hard after a while.

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I like using aroggonite substrate for the pH buffering and trace mineral addittions. Jaubert Plenumn with 6" of Florida Crushed Coral from CaribSea has been set up for 12 years. As I do zero scheduled water changes, I stir the top 1" to feed filter feeders and coral. The refugium is a mud/macro filter. After 44 years in the hobby, I started keeping Sea Apples 2 years ago. They love the high nutrient systems that I maintain.

Patrick

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  • 2 weeks later...

i vacuum my sand bed every water change. helps churn up the sand keeping it white. i dont like how it gets all packed down and rock hard after a while.

I do the same every water change I vacuum my sand. The coral farm that I used to get all my stuff from said go to glass bottom for the best results. Substrates become nitrate traps. Since I like the looks of sand in my tank, they said vacuum it very water change.

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With true DSB I would stick to periodic maintenance and only small section at the time. If vacuuming surface part of dsb, you can probably get away with larger area without disturbing it too much. If you want to maintain glass front of a display part of your tank, you can use plastic putty knife from paint dep. of your local pain supply store or HD. Personally, I don't mess with dsb a whole lot. But I do clean/vuc occasionally (every 6-8 weeks)

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  • 1 month later...

I blow off the rocks with a turkey baster and let it get down to the sump/refugium at least every other day as well as when doing WC's. I keep a powerhead in the first sump chamber so nothing settles until it gets to the deep sand bed fuge. Not running a skimmer and levels are good. My girl might get me a double rated skimmer for xmas, if so I might only set it on a time to run say 3 hours a day or something.

 

I stir my black sand bed once weekly with the baster or bbq skewer just to keep the bed aerobic. I just read about wrapping one end of the hose with fine mesh so you dont pull up the sand when vacuuming, but I haven't tried it yet

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  • 6 years later...

Great thread, I have a question about Nassarius snails. Can they live in crushed coral..?

I inherited a thriving little 35g AIO reef, full of pods, mushrooms zoas and such, no fish. Full coralline spread on rocks and walls the substrate is a  small aggregate crushed coral and full of sludge despite the happy corals settled into it. No clean up crew... I’m dying to clean it & start laying some sand but don’t want to disturb it and I’d hate to kill a bunch of snails if they can’t handle the coral substrate. Any thoughts on that ? Thanks for your time !

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