Do you vacuum or stir your sand bed?

[racer_X_123]

This question was brought up in another sub forum so I thought that i would ask it here and see if we can come to some general consensus on the issue.

 

Feel free to discuss what you have found to work best for you and if you have found that one thing works better than the other!

 

I personally thought that we were supposed to leave the sand bed alone but I am finding that it may not be the case!

[PureColorDesigns]

The only thing that works for me is to fill my large turkey baster with water. Then stick the end of the baster into the bottom of the sand bed and then squeeze the baster. Churns everything up very nice and looks very clean. I do a section of mine during every water change. I have a 20 Gallon long full of softies, 2 clowns and a Mandrian Dragonet.

 

I started the hobby in march and been doing it this way for the past 2-3 months. I have seen no change in water quality but my tank always looks squeaky clean!

[M@!]

On my reef tank I vacuum the sand every week. I'm of the opinion that what goes in must come out. I vacuum my sand and use my sump as a detritus settling tank.

 

I do two small water changes a week. One to vacuum my sand and the other to clean the detritus from my sump. I find it much easier to just suck the detritus out before it's broken down to be processed by macro algae. I'm also experimenting with a swirl separator to make my detritus removal even easier.

 

Here is the basic design I am using for my separator:

 

Here is how much crap I suck out of my sump on a weekly basis.

Edited November 24, 2012 by M@!

[Formula462]

This question was brought up in another sub forum so I thought that i would ask it here and see if we can come to some general consensus on the issue.

 

Feel free to discuss what you have found to work best for you and if you have found that one thing works better than the other!

 

I personally thought that we were supposed to leave the sand bed alone but I am finding that it may not be the case!

 

I turn up the corners, and very lightly skim the top , but I don't go digging down in it unless necessary to remove something unwanted (dead snail etc)

[NanoTopia]

I keep a 2 inch sand bed and I blow the sand off every other day. I use a turkey baster but only blow hard enough to disturb the top 1 inch of the sand bed. I find this keeps the sand bed looking clean and feeds the corals at the same time. Un eaten detritus eventually gets caught in my filter sock (300micron) or taken up by my skimmer. I have been doing this for years and it works well for me.

[glennr1978]

Vacuum with every wc. Been doing so for years. Works well for me.

[Lawnman]

I was vacuuming my sandbed till I filled it wil corals. I was looking in my sump yesterday and MAN does it collect some nasty on the bottom. Need to siphon it out this weekend.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Lawnman

[RayWhisperer]

I've never vacuumed the sandbed on my reefs. On rare occasions I'll disturb a section of it to release any debris that's made it's way down deep. I do siphon out my back chamber every few months.

 

I'm somewhat of an abnormal reefer. I started most of my tanks with things like GARF Grunge, or some sand and rock from long existing tanks. I have more spaghetti worms and weird critters living in my rock and sand that I don't care to disturb. The more the merrier, IMO. I also feed and stock my tanks heavily. I dunno, it's always worked for me. Nitrates are always undetectable, phosphate I keep in check with a bit of GFO in a tiny reactor. SPS, nems and clams thrive, so I must be doing something right.

[mpg732]

My thoughts were if you are in need of cleaning a sand bed then you are missing some members of a good Clean Up Crew. You should never need to touch the sand bed.

[racer_X_123]

My thoughts were if you are in need of cleaning a sand bed then you are missing some members of a good Clean Up Crew. You should never need to touch the sand bed.

 

I thought the same thing. I have Florida cerith snails and Nassarius snails.

[metrokat]

i just siphoned the sand bed. i feel all kinds of clean now.

[M@!]

My thoughts were if you are in need of cleaning a sand bed then you are missing some members of a good Clean Up Crew. You should never need to touch the sand bed.

Where does the poop from the Clean Up Crew go? I have Ceriths/Nassarius and every time I vacuum my sand it is disgusting.

 

Sand is a tool like everything else, it can only trap some much detritus before it starts leaching.

[RayWhisperer]

I just don't find that to be the case. There is so much biodiversity in saltwater systems. A well established tank has microfauna out the wazzoo.They break down everything. Granted, it can be easy to outpace any aquariums ability to break down and neutralize waste. I think it's more of a balancing act with a little help from things like carbon, floss, GFO, or whatever you like to use. JMO, anyways.

[M@!]

I agree there is tons of biodiversity, microfauna, etc.. What I don't understand is if I feed my tank, no mater what is in it, it has to be removed. Even if is broken down it is still in the tank... unless it is removed?

 

It might be bound in sand, living animals, macro, microfauna, live rock but it stills has to be there. JMO too, it's good to have differing opinions. I think that is what moves reef keeping forward. Can you image what people 10 years ago would think about some of the amazing Nanos on this forum?

[RayWhisperer]

lol! Yeah, it would blow their minds what's been accomplished in the last 2 decades.

 

The problem you may be having with this, IMO, is that you are assuming the old analogy of "matter can never be created or destroyed." However, the latter part of that is "It can only change form." Whether it be micro fauna, macro fauna, coral, algae (both micro and macro), or even nutrients in the water column, or sandbed. That matter is bound in differing states within each thing. Within coral skeletons, macro growth, whatever. Within something like coral, it's bound in the skeleton for as long as that thing lives. Macro is easily harvested, thus exporting nutrients. Water changes, exporting nutrients. I guess my philosophy is a bit different than the norm.

 

I'll grant you. None of my systems would ever make TOTM. However, they are stable long term and relatively low maintenance. They support a wide variety of animals and they seem to thrive. Reefing is like skinning a cat. There are a thousand ways to do it. Though, I can't think of more than one way to skin a cat, myself.

[M@!]

Unfortunately I can think of two ways to skin a cat right of the top of my head, I think that might mean I have a problem? I actually don't think our philosophy's are much different. I just think it's way easier to suck nutrients out of my completely empty sump instead of adding lights,growing plants, waiting for the nutrients to decompose and then cutting them out, plus I really like run on sentences.

 

I say all this out of both sides of my mouth. I run my mixed reef tank with a strictly settling tank/skimmer setup. I also have a 6 gallon mantis tank with Macro exporting all my nutrients. A 20L Peacock Mantis/NPS tank with no lights, no sump and a HOB Skimmer. Last but not least a 30G Octopus tank with a ATS.

 

Let's not even get started on lights, I love reefing because I can never stop learning!

Edited November 25, 2012 by M@!

[Nano sapiens]

Bio-diversity in a nano tank is actually very small, especially in an older tank. Predation and the small real-estate are not conducive to keeping multitudes of different species. In larger tanks, diversity is somewhat improved, but still a far cry from nature.

 

As we add substances into the system (mainly via feeding) we increase substance concentrations which, over time, become deleterious to the system as a whole. Some of these substances end up in the substrate/LR (sometimes in a semi-permanent bound state), some in the animals we keep and some stay in the water.

 

For example, snails forage and various substances are concentrated into their fecal pellets. The pellets will eventually be broken down by various organisms and their constituents released back into the system. We can either allow these pellets to accumulate in the substrate (not good) or remove them via some form of cleaning process.

 

In our nano systems it is difficult (but perhaps not impossible) to have a collection of creatures who can stir up the substrate sufficiently so that some form of mechanical filtration can remove the detritus. For most nano aquaria, manually removal is needed. But in all cases, some form of removal from the system is ultimately necessary.

[urbaneks]

This topic has been covered in pretty good detail but... I vacuum my gravel but with a small twist. I do water changes every 2 weeks and with each water change I vacuum a third of the gravel bed, this allows the entire bed to get vacuumed every 6 weeks. Here is a shot of my sandbed after 18 months. Seems to work pretty well.

 

[Spirofucci]

Since I have been battling red slime I do suck it out off the sand, otherwise I do stir up the top 1" of sand with each w/c.

[Islandoftiki]

I vacuum different sections with every weekly water change. Maybe 1/6 of the tank at a time. I pay most attention to the corners and sides. My pistol shrimp keeps the rest of the sand bed stirred up.

[xerophyte_nyc]

There is no right or wrong, it really does depend.

 

The coarser and shallower the substrate, the quicker it builds up debris and the less likely it is to develop a good population of sandbed creatures. So on this extreme end of the spectrum, regular stirring and vacuuming would make lots of sense.

 

At the other extreme, a deep sand bed with superfine particles should have minimal disturbance.

 

It's the in-between areas where people here may either encounter problems, or recognize how to manipulate their environment to avoid them. So if you go with something in the middle of the spectrum, like a basic 1-2 inch aragonite sandbed, it probably needs less frequent maintenance but if you start to get lazy and neglectful, then it can have a very negative impact on your tank inhabitants.

 

The reef tank is your world, your design, your choice, and yours to figure out.

[TheKleinReef]

i have a 4 inch deep sand bed, and i just run a shish kabob stick through it once a week so aerate it. nitrates are always 0 and there's never any dark spots. if it isn't broke don't fix it. I've heard so much hate on DSB, and it works perfectly for me. Just my 0.02

[dtitus1]

I study biology and here are my ideas on the matter which I'm sure somebody will take offense to.

 

A. If you have coarse sand you probably should siphon because it will trap detritus like mad (I use fine sand). Also if you do vacuum you should only do very small parts of your sandbed at a time, because as you all know from cycling, denitrifying bacteria will take weeks to recolonize and if you do too much you can get a feedback loop that'll make the problem worse than it was to begin with.

 

B. You should have good flow over your sandbed and don't feed more than your livestock (cuc included) can eat, and you should also have some nassarius snails and ceriths to stir lower layers. Also some mechanical filtration can't hurt but you don't want to go overboard, I think most people use skimmers that are probably too powerful which is why they have to dose all the time.

 

C. The biological filtration process literally dissolves animal waste into it's constituent nutrients, which can be exported through macro algae(which I think everyone should do to some degree) and water changes, so if you're doing things right you shouldn't have large amounts of solid waste building up anyways.

 

Granted my saltwater tank is only about 3months old, but the principle is the pretty much the same as freshwater and I have several systems that are running with sandbeds that are sparkling clean and I do basically zero maintenance on them. If you set up a good natural system with the right flow, right amount and type of sand, and right plants and animals, it saves you a lot of headaches plus it's nice to know that you did the job right in creating your own ecosystem.

Edited December 3, 2012 by dtitus1

[Zer0]

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's really all about flow, which type of sand you have, and how effective your CUC is. If you feed a lot and only have a couple hermit crabs and a snail, any sandbed is going to look like poop, no matter the type of sand you use. It's all about striking that balance.

 

Also, stirring a sandbed is never a good idea. You can actually crash your tank by doing that. You can always just use a turkey baster and lightly blow the sand around, but just the top layer. Whatever is free floating, siphon it out during water changes. That is what I have to be most effective in keeping your sand pearly white.

 

I also avoid oolitic sand completely now. The problem with that sand is that if you don't keep up regular maintenance, and your CUC crew sucks, the sand actually gets hard, which is no good. I use the type of sand right above it in coarseness. It might be select size, but I'm not sure what they call it. All I know is that it looks nice like oolite, but it is not as unforgiving. You can also accommodate higher flow rates because the higher the coarse, the harder it is for sand to blow away.

[Krazie4Acans]

I like all the different ideas on this subject, I find it very helpful.

 

Is there a section in the forums that discusses what to do when you find a toxic sandbed? My neighbor has a nano that she has had for 2 years and she bought it used. She doesn't regularly "clean the sand bed by any method.

 

I was taking care of her tank while she was out of town and did a water change for her. I vacuum when I change water and so started to vacuum hers as well. The sand bed was very hard and calcified. When I mistakenly forced through that layer the water coming out immediately smelled of rotting material and black mud. I sucked up the area very carefully and could find no traces of an issue after completing the water change.

 

The tank is doing ok but not thriving and I wonder if this could be part of the reason? Can someone point me in the right direction to start reading up on this so that I can offer her a solution to her toxic sand bed?

 

Krazie