Full spectrum LED layouts

[wasian8]

I have a question in regards to a diy led setup for a rimless 48x24x16-18 inch . I’ve been looking through the full spectrum layout recommendations on this thread and am trying to figure out what would be the best option. Initially I was thinking to try and do two of the hexagon clusters that are recommended for a 60c tank. My problem with this is my tank will be much shallower than the 24”H. I’m thinking either use the 40L clusters and add some led to make up for the width of the tank, or to go with three of the clusters that are recommended for the 40B setup. Oh and I’m planning to keep a mixed reef and am totally fine with aquascaping/placing coral in regards to the leds. However, It would be nice to keep some clams on the sand bed. Any comments or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

[jedimasterben]

I have a question in regards to a diy led setup for a rimless 48x24x16-18 inch . I’ve been looking through the full spectrum layout recommendations on this thread and am trying to figure out what would be the best option. Initially I was thinking to try and do two of the hexagon clusters that are recommended for a 60c tank. My problem with this is my tank will be much shallower than the 24”H. I’m thinking either use the 40L clusters and add some led to make up for the width of the tank, or to go with three of the clusters that are recommended for the 40B setup. Oh and I’m planning to keep a mixed reef and am totally fine with aquascaping/placing coral in regards to the leds. However, It would be nice to keep some clams on the sand bed. Any comments or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

If you have a way of cutting the aluminum for the heatsink, do what I did, I have everything in my tank thread in my sig.

[Tampico96]

Ordered my leds. Ordered 6 drivers and just got the makersled. Also added the BJB solderless connectors, so I can change some out if need be. Wish there was a solderless connection for the 3 ups.

[uglybuckling]

If you have a way of cutting the aluminum for the heatsink, do what I did, I have everything in my tank thread in my sig.

 

Copy Jedi's lights. DOO EEET.

[mrhasan]

I have decided to use 3 clusters of figure 3 for my 20L tank. I have few noobish questions:

 

1. How far the clusters should be from each other? I mean the distance between each sets of clusters.

 

2. All the lights other than OCW comes on individual base but the figure shows 2 RB and 1 NW on one base. I there any such combo? Or how should those be placed and how close each of the bases should be?

 

3. Since my tank is shallow (12"), I was wondering whether Cree will make too much of a difference with Bridgelux. Because I will eventually have to dim the Cree by a good amount which, I believe, won't have to be done on Bridgelux. This thing is really confusing since some say bridgelux should be fine on a shallow tank while others say cree and dim it. Dimming cree to 60% while using bridgelux at 80% for the same output would get my vote for bridgelux comparing the price. (PS: My tank is mostly softies, lps and few montis and birdnests)

 

4. And my most stupid question: my tank is not much SPS dominated and I will just stick to birdnest, montis, pocci and possibly some easy cheap acros and milli. Will full spectrum really make a difference instead of 14k look?

 

I just want to make sure that spending the extra money for getting a full spectrum and using cree/bridgelux worth's it for my tank's profile. Cree and full spectrum is obviously the best choice but I am just wondering whether it will worth the money for my tank.

 

Cheers

[uglybuckling]

I have decided to use 3 clusters of figure 3 for my 20L tank. I have few noobish questions:

 

1. How far the clusters should be from each other? I mean the distance between each sets of clusters.

 

The tank is 30 inches long and you have three clusters. Center them at 7.5, 15, and 22.5 inches.

 

2. All the lights other than OCW comes on individual base but the figure shows 2 RB and 1 NW on one base. I there any such combo? Or how should those be placed and how close each of the bases should be?

Yes, they are called 3ups. LEDgroupBuy and Steve's LEDs both sell the combo of two RB and one NW.

 

At Steve's you have to sorta choose two RBs and a NW on his antidisco stars (since he can do reflow soldering himself, you can literally get any combo you can think of...want two cyans and a green for some reason? You can do that). Using the various combo stars he sells, you can choose separate wiring or series wiring (there are three different ones, one separate and two different in-series boards).

 

With LEDGB's, there's a single star that can be separately wired or (using globs of solder between adjacent contact points) wired in series. Nice because you get the choice of how to wire using only a single star; not as flexible if you want weird combos (but rb-rb-nw and OCW are both available there; you just can't make up your own weird stars).

 

 

3. Since my tank is shallow (12"), I was wondering whether Cree will make too much of a difference with Bridgelux. Because I will eventually have to dim the Cree by a good amount which, I believe, won't have to be done on Bridgelux. This thing is really confusing since some say bridgelux should be fine on a shallow tank while others say cree and dim it. Dimming cree to 60% while using bridgelux at 80% for the same output would get my vote for bridgelux comparing the price. (PS: My tank is mostly softies, lps and few montis and birdnests)

Getting the same amount of light with Bridgelux that you do with Cree or Luxeon emitters requires a lot more of them. If you use these layouts with Bridgelux emitters I think they will be underpowered.

 

In terms of cost, to get the same amount of light, Bridgelux cost more for initial outlay (because even though each emitter is cheaper, you need more emitters) and also for powering the array (more emitters running at 3W each = more power used).

 

Here's a video that I think might be relevant:

 

 

4. And my most stupid question: my tank is not much SPS dominated and I will just stick to birdnest, montis, pocci and possibly some easy cheap acros and milli. Will full spectrum really make a difference instead of 14k look?

 

I just want to make sure that spending the extra money for getting a full spectrum and using cree/bridgelux worth's it for my tank's profile. Cree and full spectrum is obviously the best choice but I am just wondering whether it will worth the money for my tank.

 

I feel like the differences in color rendering and fluorescence are pretty well-demonstrated at this point. Differences in growth far less-so.

 

Here's another video:

[BulkRate]

The tank is 30 inches long and you have three clusters. Center them at 7.5, 15, and 22.5 inches.

 

 

Yes, they are called 3ups. LEDgroupBuy and Steve's LEDs both sell the combo of two RB and one NW.

 

At Steve's you have to sorta choose two RBs and a NW on his antidisco stars (since he can do reflow soldering himself, you can literally get any combo you can think of...want two cyans and a green for some reason? You can do that). Using the various combo stars he sells, you can choose separate wiring or series wiring (there are three different ones, one separate and two different in-series boards).

 

With LEDGB's, there's a single star that can be separately wired or (using globs of solder between adjacent contact points) wired in series. Nice because you get the choice of how to wire using only a single star; not as flexible if you want weird combos (but rb-rb-nw and OCW are both available there; you just can't make up your own weird stars).

 

 

 

Getting the same amount of light with Bridgelux that you do with Cree or Luxeon emitters requires a lot more of them. If you use these layouts with Bridgelux emitters I think they will be underpowered.

 

In terms of cost, to get the same amount of light, Bridgelux cost more for initial outlay (because even though each emitter is cheaper, you need more emitters) and also for powering the array (more emitters running at 3W each = more power used).

 

Here's a video that I think might be relevant:

 

 

 

 

I feel like the differences in color rendering and fluorescence are pretty well-demonstrated at this point. Differences in growth far less-so.

 

Here's another video:

 

Impressive video and a great primer for why we should bother with full-spectrum in the first place. Thanks for making it!

[BlakeL]

Great videos! Let us know when you release the rest.

[mrhasan]

Thanks That's clears up a lot of confusion.

 

So I should be good with an 18" heatsink right? I was wondering what should be the width of the sink? And will just one 120mm fan be enough?

 

Can I use separate stars for the separate leds instead of 3ups? Because those 3ups looks very challenging to soldier separately. Will individual leds with base create too much disco?

 

And I was wondering, people always soldier with tightly placed wires (touching the sink) but due to the heat, don't the insulators get melted?

 

The tank is 30 inches long and you have three clusters. Center them at 7.5, 15, and 22.5 inches.

 

 

Yes, they are called 3ups. LEDgroupBuy and Steve's LEDs both sell the combo of two RB and one NW.

 

At Steve's you have to sorta choose two RBs and a NW on his antidisco stars (since he can do reflow soldering himself, you can literally get any combo you can think of...want two cyans and a green for some reason? You can do that). Using the various combo stars he sells, you can choose separate wiring or series wiring (there are three different ones, one separate and two different in-series boards).

 

With LEDGB's, there's a single star that can be separately wired or (using globs of solder between adjacent contact points) wired in series. Nice because you get the choice of how to wire using only a single star; not as flexible if you want weird combos (but rb-rb-nw and OCW are both available there; you just can't make up your own weird stars).

 

 

 

Getting the same amount of light with Bridgelux that you do with Cree or Luxeon emitters requires a lot more of them. If you use these layouts with Bridgelux emitters I think they will be underpowered.

 

In terms of cost, to get the same amount of light, Bridgelux cost more for initial outlay (because even though each emitter is cheaper, you need more emitters) and also for powering the array (more emitters running at 3W each = more power used).

 

Here's a video that I think might be relevant:

 

 

 

 

I feel like the differences in color rendering and fluorescence are pretty well-demonstrated at this point. Differences in growth far less-so.

 

Here's another video:

[Veng]

This took me a while because I was meticulous and sleeved all the cabling on the top side, but I think it came out really clean because of it. Still playing with the dimming, a little too purple in this pic, but some of that's the phone. 6x NW, 12x RB, 3x OCW, 6x TV

 

[jedimasterben]

This took me a while because I was meticulous and sleeved all the cabling on the top side, but I think it came out really clean because of it. Still playing with the dimming, a little too purple in this pic, but some of that's the phone. 6x NW, 12x RB, 3x OCW, 6x TV

 

[Veng]

You just made my day, thanks!

[tailes]

 

 

[jedimasterben]

 

[mrhasan]

Will running 3up at 700mA (the max allowed current) be enough?! That's like running at 50%.

[uglybuckling]

A Cree 3up at 700mA, or a Luxeon Rebel 3up at 1000mA are what these layouts were designed around. Yes, the emitters are somewhat "underdriven" at those amperages, but it's still going to put off more light, even underdriven, than a fully-driven Bridgelux. It'll also stay cool and last awhile.

 

Could you bend the rules and run a Cree 3up at 1000mA? Probably. Would it last as long as one run at 700mA on the same heatsink? Probably not. That's why Milad doesn't recommend it.

 

Obviously "enough" is a relative term. These layouts will grow SPS, but they may not grow SPS on the sandbed in the corner of the tank (although 2x Figure 8 is doing exactly that in my tank...admittedly it's just a monti cap though. I'll move it from the sandbed when it has recovered from being accidentally fragged by my wrist....again).

 

If you underbuild one of these layouts with fewer LEDs, then yeah, Crees at 700 or Rebels at 1000 may not be enough. If you put the light twenty eight inches over your tank, then yeah, Crees at 700 or Rebels at 1000 may not be enough. If you decide to use both optics and a diffuser because physics is hard, then yeah, Crees at 700 or Rebels at 1000 may not be enough.

 

For the majority of applications, where there is no attempt to bend the rules and do something weird without consideration for how that might affect the light's intensity, the layouts are fine. =)

[jedimasterben]

I'm pretty sure the reason Milad recommends running them at 700ma and not 1000ma is because he doesn't sell a 1000ma driver. Cree 3ups can be pushed to their full amperage without issue as long as they are properly heatsinked, and 1000ma is no stretch for them (it's the same power as an XM-L pulls at full amperage).

 

I doubt the longevity difference between 700ma and 1000ma. LEDs are only guaranteed their 50,000 hours if they're ran at 350ma, but if they're heatsinked properly, they will last much longer than that and can be run at higher amperages.

 

 

My two cents.

[Veng]

He does sell 1400 and 2100mA drivers, so I'm not sure that's the reason. It may just be him being conservative.

[mrhasan]

Thanks for the detailed explanation

 

One last question for now:

 

At night, when I would want to turn off the lights though a timer, do I have to turn off the potentiometer wall wart too? Or I can leave it on?

 

A Cree 3up at 700mA, or a Luxeon Rebel 3up at 1000mA are what these layouts were designed around. Yes, the emitters are somewhat "underdriven" at those amperages, but it's still going to put off more light, even underdriven, than a fully-driven Bridgelux. It'll also stay cool and last awhile.

 

Could you bend the rules and run a Cree 3up at 1000mA? Probably. Would it last as long as one run at 700mA on the same heatsink? Probably not. That's why Milad doesn't recommend it.

 

Obviously "enough" is a relative term. These layouts will grow SPS, but they may not grow SPS on the sandbed in the corner of the tank (although 2x Figure 8 is doing exactly that in my tank...admittedly it's just a monti cap though. I'll move it from the sandbed when it has recovered from being accidentally fragged by my wrist....again).

 

If you underbuild one of these layouts with fewer LEDs, then yeah, Crees at 700 or Rebels at 1000 may not be enough. If you put the light twenty eight inches over your tank, then yeah, Crees at 700 or Rebels at 1000 may not be enough. If you decide to use both optics and a diffuser because physics is hard, then yeah, Crees at 700 or Rebels at 1000 may not be enough.

 

For the majority of applications, where there is no attempt to bend the rules and do something weird without consideration for how that might affect the light's intensity, the layouts are fine. =)

[uglybuckling]

My potentiometer wall warts also run my fans (at 10v DC), so they stay on all the time. So far it's totally fine.

 

If you are using Meanwell drivers, the discharge of the capacitors (when the AC power to the driver goes out but the control circuit is still on) will cause a single bright flash shortly after lights out. As best I can tell this is not harmful; my array has been doing it for awhile and though it annoys me, I can't figure out a good workaround and like I said, I don't think it's hurting anything, so I haven't put a whole lot of effort into "fixing" it.

[jedimasterben]

My potentiometer wall warts also run my fans (at 10v DC), so they stay on all the time. So far it's totally fine.

 

If you are using Meanwell drivers, the discharge of the capacitors (when the AC power to the driver goes out but the control circuit is still on) will cause a single bright flash shortly after lights out. As best I can tell this is not harmful; my array has been doing it for awhile and though it annoys me, I can't figure out a good workaround and like I said, I don't think it's hurting anything, so I haven't put a whole lot of effort into "fixing" it.

I doubt it's hurting anything, it's just discharging, it should be the same amount of power as they normally receive. My Meanwells only do the flash if I have them on maximum and then cut the power to the controller, which makes them turn off.

[mrhasan]

My potentiometer wall warts also run my fans (at 10v DC), so they stay on all the time. So far it's totally fine.

 

If you are using Meanwell drivers, the discharge of the capacitors (when the AC power to the driver goes out but the control circuit is still on) will cause a single bright flash shortly after lights out. As best I can tell this is not harmful; my array has been doing it for awhile and though it annoys me, I can't figure out a good workaround and like I said, I don't think it's hurting anything, so I haven't put a whole lot of effort into "fixing" it.

 

Yah I was thinking of the static charge. Good to know that the circuit somehow discharges it otherwise the buildup charge can cause a big mess. Thanks

[Veng]

I just run a power strip to the timer and have the wall wart for the fan run off that. Makes life simple.

[uglybuckling]

Sorry for the lack of updates. I'm still alive--work and the holidays have just gotten pretty busy for me. So anyhow, layouts for Steve's LEDs linear heatsinks are probably the most commonly-requested thing in this thread, along with more info about drivers. Since I (theoretically) have a week off coming up, I'll see what I can do on those two issues.

 

Meantime, I'm taking requests. Wanna see a video about what life is like with three reef tanks, five reptiles, a hedgehog, and no furniture? Yeah, I didn't think so. I'll get to work on the driver video.

[BlakeL]

Sorry for the lack of updates. I'm still alive--work and the holidays have just gotten pretty busy for me. So anyhow, layouts for Steve's LEDs linear heatsinks are probably the most commonly-requested thing in this thread, along with more info about drivers. Since I (theoretically) have a week off coming up, I'll see what I can do on those two issues.

 

Meantime, I'm taking requests. Wanna see a video about what life is like with three reef tanks, five reptiles, a hedgehog, and no furniture? Yeah, I didn't think so. I'll get to work on the driver video.

 

I would be interested in a linear heat sink version for figure 2 & 3. I'm probably just going to use tube steel or those c-channels from Home Depot for my heatsink.