Full spectrum LED layouts

[Cintax]

I've never run an OCW in parallel; I always just run them on a separate driver at lower amperage. Interesting idea though. Might have to try that trick in an up and coming build--I wonder if I could get all my LEDs on one driver like that. Not much control but oh so cheap. =) RBs and NWs at 1000, TVs and OCWs at 500 run in parallel. Of course parallel wiring of LED arrays brings up a whole pile of issues related to what happens if one LED in the line fails (you dump all the power on the string through the remaining LEDs; it usually fries them too.

 

 

Running LEDs in parallel is always a bit dangerous. If an element fails, the full current will pass through the remaining branch. Now, if the LEDs are rated to handle the full current than there is no concern since they will just be brighter. Typically, this is not the case though as this configuration would be most commonly be used when the user only has one one driver wants to run two strings of LEDs off of it to save cost. If the LEDs are in a parallel string you have three options - you can hope for the best, you can put a fuse on each branch or you can employ a current mirror.

 

Option 1 is clearly the worst as any failure in one element in the first branch could take out one or all of the LEDs in the second branch. The best case scenario here is that your heatsink can dissipate enough heat to keep the die from burning out from the excessive current.

 

Option 2 is decent enough. It will kill the power to the second branch which will protect your investment nicely.

 

Option 3 is the best overall though. A current mirror will do two things. First, since each LED element will not have the same resistance there is a good chance that one branch could be slight brighter as it will have a little more current running through it (Ohms law). A current mirror works to maintain equal current to both branches. Secondly, the action that provides the balance of current in each branch also acts as a fail safe cutting off all power in the even one branch fails.

 

Here is a good explanation.

 

Current mirror design

[GingerPolarBear]

Great! Thank you very much. I wasn't sure because the depth is a little more than a standard 10 gal. I was definitely going to give a total darkness period, I don't know why people don't.

 

Using one white for a moonlight is new to me. What is the thinking behind this? What temp should I use for that?

 

Sorry for more questions. I'm pretty sure I've got it all down though.

 

Thanks again for the help/clarification.

[jedimasterben]

Great! Thank you very much. I wasn't sure because the depth is a little more than a standard 10 gal. I was definitely going to give a total darkness period, I don't know why people don't.

 

Using one white for a moonlight is new to me. What is the thinking behind this? What temp should I use for that?

 

Sorry for more questions. I'm pretty sure I've got it all down though.

 

Thanks again for the help/clarification.

Corals use blue light to tune their circadian rhythm, so longer blue light makes them think that daytime is not over.

[BlakeL]

My wife really likes the 15 Gallon Aqueon Column tank which is 13.6" x 13.8" x 24.8". Would the layout and number of LED's for a 7.5g cube be enough for this tank? I'm willing to place SPS towards the top if I get any. I will be using Luxeon's 3-Ups from Steves.

[igotreefermadness]

I'm doing a 1.7g display with a 13"x9" footprint. I was thinking 1 3-up, 1 OCW, and 1 TV with the TV and 3-up on a single dimming driver and the OCW on a second dimming driver would make a good combination. Any input on this?

 

I also ran across these cheap LED drivers on a website I use pretty often that I thought might be worth a go.

[uglybuckling]

For a 1.7g tank, I think that's a pretty good plan. The OCW will probably not be hugely overpowering, but it DOES seem like sort of a high RB/NW : OCW ratio. Are these drivers dimmable? What AC-DC converter are you going to use (I read on the page, if I'm not missing anything, that these drivers use DC input. Yes?)

 

Depending on which 3up you use, it will either run at 700mA (LEDgroupbuy; Cree) or 1000mA (Steve's; Luxeon Rebels).

 

Depending on which True Violet you use, it will either run at 500mA (LEDgroupbuy, I don't really know the brand) or 700mA (Steve's, SemiLEDs)

 

The OCW will either run at 500mA (LEDGroupbuy, I think it's a mix of brands) or 700mA (Steve's, Luxeon Rebels).

 

Generally you could just safely run everything at 500mA, or you could try to combine things in such a way that they'd be okay at higher amperages...if you were so inclined.

 

Given the size of the tank, 500mA would be MORE than adequate to give you enough brightness.

[BlakeL]

I'm doing a 1.7g display with a 13"x9" footprint. I was thinking 1 3-up, 1 OCW, and 1 TV with the TV and 3-up on a single dimming driver and the OCW on a second dimming driver would make a good combination. Any input on this?

 

I also ran across these cheap LED drivers on a website I use pretty often that I thought might be worth a go.

 

Let me know how that driver works out.

[igotreefermadness]

From what the driver specifies on the site, I think I'd run around 10v into them and I think that'd put them close to 500 mA and under their 818 mA rating. I'll be testing them on different voltages regardless.

 

You could run these drivers on a simple PWM board for dimming, but what I'd really like to do is setup some sort of pulse width program on an old computer for a sunset/sunrise cycle off of a serial port. I haven't looked into it much. I was planning on using the ledgroupbuy setup and I agree 500 mA should be plenty for a tank this size. Especially since I'll run them so close to the water. I do wan't a fair amount of sps.

[jedimasterben]

From what the driver specifies on the site, I think I'd run around 10v into them and I think that'd put them close to 500 mA and under their 818 mA rating. I'll be testing them on different voltages regardless.

 

You could run these drivers on a simple PWM board for dimming, but what I'd really like to do is setup some sort of pulse width program on an old computer for a sunset/sunrise cycle off of a serial port. I haven't looked into it much. I was planning on using the ledgroupbuy setup and I agree 500 mA should be plenty for a tank this size. Especially since I'll run them so close to the water. I do wan't a fair amount of sps.

Why would you waste at least 100w of power or so 24/7 versus just buying a regular lighting controller?

[igotreefermadness]

I'm not sure where you're getting the 100 watts at, probably the PWM. Like I said I haven't looked into it much. At 5 bucks a piece I'll just play with the voltage I don't need a sunrise/sunset cycle.

[jedimasterben]

I'm not sure where you're getting the 100 watts at, probably the PWM. Like I said I haven't looked into it much. At 5 bucks a piece I'll just play with the voltage I don't need a sunrise/sunset cycle.

 

From what the driver specifies on the site, I think I'd run around 10v into them and I think that'd put them close to 500 mA and under their 818 mA rating. I'll be testing them on different voltages regardless.

 

You could run these drivers on a simple PWM board for dimming, but what I'd really like to do is setup some sort of pulse width program on an old computer for a sunset/sunrise cycle off of a serial port. I haven't looked into it much. I was planning on using the ledgroupbuy setup and I agree 500 mA should be plenty for a tank this size. Especially since I'll run them so close to the water. I do wan't a fair amount of sps.

[igotreefermadness]

That's a good point, I suppose it could run on the computer I keep running constantly as well.

 

Just because you've got 5,500 posts in like what, eleven months, doesn't justify the elitist attitude.

[BlakeL]

My wife really likes the 15 Gallon Aqueon Column tank which is 13.6" x 13.8" x 24.8". Would the layout and number of LED's for a 7.5g cube be enough for this tank? I'm willing to place SPS towards the top if I get any. I will be using Luxeon's 3-Ups from Steves.

 

Anyone have input on my question? I'm actually thinking of just using 12 bridgelux led's (8 RB/4 NW) from LED Group Buy instead of full spectrum to make things easier.

[zooman72]

I have this tank (15g column) currently lit by a single Boost PAR30, housing lower light corals quite well for well over a year. One could always use a PAR38 for greater spread and intensity, plus it does not get any easier than a PAR LED bulb. I plan on updating the light on this tank next week with a new PAR30 from Bright Aquatics with 4RB, 2NW and a single Violet.

[BlakeL]

I have this tank (15g column) currently lit by a single Boost PAR30, housing lower light corals quite well for well over a year. One could always use a PAR38 for greater spread and intensity, plus it does not get any easier than a PAR LED bulb. I plan on updating the light on this tank next week with a new PAR30 from Bright Aquatics with 4RB, 2NW and a single Violet.

 

I'm planning on retrofitting the LED's to the stock hood since it's going in my daughters room, so a par bulb is not an option.

[uglybuckling]

The plan for a 7.5g cube will put out at least as much, and probably a good bit more light than a PAR38, if the emitters are run at their spec (and not at 500mA or whatever PAR bulbs use).

 

First, the 7.5g cube plan uses fifteen LEDs. Most PAR38 bulbs use twelve. (more emitters)

 

Second, the neutral whites and royal blues in the 7.5g cube plan are top-of-the-line LEDs (Crees or Rebels), which put out a good bit more light than the (still perfectly fine but less efficient) ones used in most PAR lamps. (more lumens per emitter)

 

Third, as stated above, you can run the neutral whites and royal blues in this plan at 700 mA or 1000mA, whereas they are usually run at considerably less than that in PAR lamps, for lower brightness. (again, more lumens per emitter)

 

Bottom line: the 7.5g plan will be fine; you may need to (as you suggested) be selective about where the SPS goes, but it should work just fine.

 

Incidentally I LOVE that tank size and want to do one with rock walls on three sides, sort of a vertical crevice.

[zooman72]

OK, couple of things:

 

1. I am aware of the limitations of PAR bulbs, but they are more than sufficient for certain set-ups, such as those housing softies and many LPS corals, but not deeper tanks housing a proponderance of SPS unless they have narrow optics. Incidentally, a couple of companies offer different lenses to "fine-tune" and compensate for lower efficiency.

 

2. A tank like this 15 column will have to have a "layered" approach to coral placement more pronounced than most on here with its smaller footprint and greater depth. If BlakeL wants to keep SPS he will have to keep them up towards the top because placing most SPS species elsewhere will require greater overall light intensity which will make keeping anything else up top problematic.

 

3. I was unaware that BlakeL wanted to keep the factory top for the tank, in which case a retrofit is of course better. He should make sure it is vented properly however as it is relatively thin plastic and will trap a lot of heat otherwise.

[uglybuckling]

Wasn't criticizing PAR bulbs...if anything, I was saying "the 7.5 gallon cube plan will work BECAUSE zooman is growing his 15g high on less light and doing just fine with it."

 

I have no issues at all with PAR bulbs--in this instance, since we have somebody (Zooman) with the same tank running a PAR bulb over it, and successfully growing softies, I figured that would make a good jumping-off point for a comparison. If it works with the PAR bulb, it'll also work with the 7.5g plan because the 7.5g plan is more light.

[BlakeL]

Wasn't criticizing PAR bulbs...if anything, I was saying "the 7.5 gallon cube plan will work BECAUSE zooman is growing his 15g high on less light and doing just fine with it."

 

I have no issues at all with PAR bulbs--in this instance, since we have somebody (Zooman) with the same tank running a PAR bulb over it, and successfully growing softies, I figured that would make a good jumping-off point for a comparison. If it works with the PAR bulb, it'll also work with the 7.5g plan because the 7.5g plan is more light.

 

How would this do for the 15 column? I wanted to do the 7.5g layout with the Bridgelux LED's from LEDGroupBuy but you can only buy them in 2/6 packs.

 

 

All With 120 Degree Optics:

8x - Bridgelux Royal Blue - 455nm

4x - Bridgelux Neutral White - 4500K

2x - True Violet LED - 390-430nm (405nm or 430nm???)

1x - Ocean Coral White

[jedimasterben]

How would this do for the 15 column? I wanted to do the 7.5g layout with the Bridgelux LED's from LEDGroupBuy but you can only buy them in 2/6 packs.

 

 

All With 120 Degree Optics:

8x - Bridgelux Royal Blue - 455nm

4x - Bridgelux Neutral White - 4500K

2x - True Violet LED - 390-430nm (405nm or 430nm???)

1x - Ocean Coral White

Those designs are not made using lower-output LEDs like Bridgelux or Epistar. You'll need to increase the whites by 50% and the royals by about 80% to match the output of the provided array. I would also do one true violet and one hyper violet.

[uglybuckling]

How would this do for the 15 column? I wanted to do the 7.5g layout with the Bridgelux LED's from LEDGroupBuy but you can only buy them in 2/6 packs.

 

 

All With 120 Degree Optics:

8x - Bridgelux Royal Blue - 455nm

4x - Bridgelux Neutral White - 4500K

2x - True Violet LED - 390-430nm (405nm or 430nm???)

1x - Ocean Coral White

 

The first post in this thread says that the layouts are set up for Cree or Luxeon Rebels only. The reason is that these LEDs put out *significantly* more light than other brands like Bridgelux or Epistar.

 

Please see this post for more details:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=4045906

 

The layouts here are not recommended for use with royal blues and neutral whites of other brands *not only* because they are less efficient and put out less light, *but also* because I have no idea how to balance the number of blues with the number of whites (for these brands) in a full spectrum build to make them look decent.

 

You will pay more money for equivalent lumens using Bridgelux in the initial outlay, and your increased cost there will only get worse, as your electric bill will be higher, too.

 

TL:DR: use Crees or Luxeon Rebels. They're cheaper per unit of light. And more efficient.

 

Those designs are not made using lower-output LEDs like Bridgelux or Epistar. You'll need to increase the whites by 50% and the royals by about 80% to match the output of the provided array. I would also do one true violet and one hyper violet.

 

Jinx.

[uglybuckling]

In the interest of fairness, using the lower-power LEDs will likely approximate what you get with a PAR bulb, and as outlined above by Zooman, that WILL work for this tank, at least for softies. The problems with Bridgelux emitters outlined above apply (inefficiency, it will not be as bright as the 7.5g plan using Crees or Rebels, etc) but I think the biggest problem is that I don't quite know how to balance it to look right using the Bridgelux emitters, since I have no idea how bright a Bridgelux RB is compared to a Bridgelux NW. Hence, I can't really advise you on layouts and numbers of each color and so on.

 

I notice you have increased the overall number of emitters in your plan by two (dropped a true violet and added a 3up star), above what was in the original 7.5g plan. This already increases your cost to nearly what you'd pay to just go with Crees or Luxeon Rebels according to the original plan. If you are dead-set on using seventeen Bridgelux rather than fifteen Crees/Rebels (for about the same cost, much higher brightness, and slightly lower electric bills using the 15 higher-output LEDs), I would suggest maybe looking at a full-spectrum PAR bulb like the LEDTRiC or the Bright Aquatics, and copying their ratios.

 

Oh, one other problem I see: I don't know how to source an RB-RB-NW Bridgelux 3up. I don't think anybody sells those. You'd probably just have to buy individual LEDs, and then contend with disco, and be forced to make a new layout, and so on and so forth.

[BlakeL]

Ok, that make sense. I might as well shell out the money and not have to worry about what kind of corals I can keep. Should I go with LEDGroupBuy or Steves? I wish I could buy from both but they both charge $6 shipping even for 1 LED.

 

LEDGroupBuy

1x - Ocean Coral White (Optic Angle: 120°) = $6.88

2x - 2 Pack True / Hyper Violet LED - 390-430nm (Not Sold Individually) = $18.00

3x - CREE XT-E 3UP (Color: 2x Royal 1x Neutral) = $34.50

 

Total w/ Shipping: $67.27

 

Steve's LEDs

3x - 3-up Tristar - Separate wiring = $33.15

LED Color #1: Royal Blue

LED Color #2: Royal Blue

LED Color #3: Neutral White 5,000K

1x - 3-up Tristar - Connected Wiring (Series) = $12.55

LED Color #1: Cool Blue

LED Color #2: Cyan-Turquoise

LED Color #3: Deep Red

3x - 3 Watt True Violet LED = $11.97

 

Total w/ Shipping: $63.67

[uglybuckling]

Ok, that make sense. I might as well shell out the money and not have to worry about what kind of corals I can keep. Should I go with LEDGroupBuy or Steves? I wish I could buy from both but they both charge $6 shipping even for 1 LED.

 

LEDGroupBuy

1x - Ocean Coral White (Optic Angle: 120°) = $6.88

2x - 2 Pack True / Hyper Violet LED - 390-430nm (Not Sold Individually) = $18.00

3x - CREE XT-E 3UP (Color: 2x Royal 1x Neutral) = $34.50

 

Total w/ Shipping: $67.27

 

Steve's LEDs

3x - 3-up Tristar - Separate wiring = $33.15

LED Color #1: Royal Blue

LED Color #2: Royal Blue

LED Color #3: Neutral White 5,000K

1x - 3-up Tristar - Connected Wiring (Series) = $12.55

LED Color #1: Cool Blue

LED Color #2: Cyan-Turquoise

LED Color #3: Deep Red

3x - 3 Watt True Violet LED = $11.97

 

Total w/ Shipping: $63.67

 

YGPM.

[MR.FEESH]

I was thinking of getting a solderless dimmable RapidLED kit and making something with 9 LEDs and a full spectrum for my 6 gallon Nano Cube.

 

I read through the chart at the beginning of this thread about the full spectrum recommendations based off of tank size. As my NC6 is in between two sizes, AND true violet isn't an option for me (color not available), I wanted to give my idea for the color combo and see what people thought.

 

I was thinking:

4 royal blue

2 neutral white

1 deep red

1 cool blue

1 UV

 

I know some people are on the edge about UV, but it says 410-420nm wavelength, which according to the graphs here, it's still a good wavelength to get...should pretty much nail chlorophyll a, actually. Much better than cyan, green, warm white, and all my other color options at least.

 

These all are the colors offered, btw.

 

I suppose I'm looking for something that would visibly look good and grow multiple types of coral well.