RP Beesh Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 can you explain that in more detail? is it just a small hole drill? do we need it? what is perforation? Link to comment
noone Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Small video (488 k) http://galeon.com/nanoreef/skimmer.mpg Link to comment
noone Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Originally posted by RP Beesh can you explain that in more detail? is it just a small hole drill? do we need it? what is perforation? PD - Sorry UndeTheRadar for change your diagram Link to comment
Reefer_Buddha Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 This is what i was talking about. Basically the same kind of injector like a remora but it comes in horizontally and fires downward. The foam in the chamber flow out and into the larger chamber then flows to the top to a collection cup. Of course i dont know how effective it would be since the bubbles have to travel so far. But with a strong pump it might be able to overcome that flaw. Link to comment
CodeToad Posted May 21, 2004 Author Share Posted May 21, 2004 What a great thread. I have been kicking ideas around for a while now about a very small external skimmer and its nice to see some other people's innovative ideas. I'll try and get my idea down on paper here soon to share it Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Yeah, thats pretty much the same design...I made the injector come in from the top cuz its easier to remove and maint then. On the USAquarium skimmer I modded I was able to make the tube extend down into the skimmer 10" below the water line. It is just over an inch in diameter inside...and I ran it with a 260gph powerhead. Link to comment
noone Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by Undertheradar Can you give me a pic of the overflow outlet? I want to see how you did it. All I can see is a stream of water shooting out the side. Also, how long has the skimmer been running? I noticed mine took a day to break in. THX Undertheradar, i post more pics monday because the camera is "out of bussines" (my wife). The skimmer running 5 or 10 minutes, but now (2 days after) i have problems with small detritus in the inyector, i think i need a "prefilter". I change your diagram, what you think? - i put the inyector so far to the water surface - change the reaction chamber and collection cup Sorry for my english, i'm from Mexico Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Im a little confused... Is your skimmer collecting more foam now?...cuz I thought is wasnt making enough to overflow and we needed to shorten the foam-rising area (and make it narrower). I dont really know why you are trying to make the injector higher up...I have tinkered with the height of the injector (easire to do by simply manipulating the overflow level rather than the injector) and found that althought it might produce a few more bubbles, the bubbles become larger...less desirable. As far as the injector goes...yes, I think a pre-filter is 100% needed, but that was also the reason I designed the injector with removable PVC pieces as well...for easy removal and cleaning...or even replacement. PS: dont worry bout the english...it reads just fine... Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 heres what I was thinking... Shorter and narrower foam riser area. The red line also indicates where I think where the new skimmer can get cut down to (down to 11inches!!). The blue line is the water level that can be controlled by the height of the overflow (green line). Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 oops, picture would help... Link to comment
noone Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Thanks man I understand 1. So far the inyector of the surface of water, the bubbles are biggers and we need small bubbles, it's ok? 2. We need the foam-rising area short, why? i understand is here where reaction the bubbles and the amonia, i think when more heigth is better (more time of reaction), surely i´m wrong, but... why? Link to comment
RP Beesh Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 here an idea why won't your get a stronger pump? wouldn't that create more bubble? one more thing can your tell me what an air inlet what do it do? Link to comment
Reefer_Buddha Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 the bubbles you are getting are bigger because it looks like from your diagram the injector is too far from the water. The closer the injector the more turbulence you create. When that water has to travel a further distance it will make larger bubbles. As to what RP was saying, a larger pump "might" work but you have to figure that youre also raising the internal water level and when that happens you will back up the pressure and flood over the injector. Its a delicate balance between baffles, pump and pressure. good luck Link to comment
Reefer_Buddha Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 here's a design ive been thinking of. One idea you guys have thats a really good one is making the collection chamber part of the skimmer and just having and outlet into a milk jug or whatever. This would incorporate the same idea. Also remember if youre going to use spray injection like this you need to have the outlet at just the right heights to keep the water level just under the nozzle injector. Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Ok, let me back up here so we are all on the same page. Noone, I was under the impression that the skimmer wasnt making enough foam 'head' to spill into the collector part from what your pics showed...ie: the foam riser area was too tall. thats why I was simply suggesting making that area shorter...not raising the injector, not anything else. Yes, the higher the better...but if it's too high then it wont collect. We need to make it high enough to let the bubbles foam up and react...but just at the right height that they will still spill over into the collection area. As far as the rest goes everyone: No, 60-90gph is enough for this size. As is I can shoot a stream of bubbles straight down 8+inches with 60gph...dont need any more...and I dont intend on raising the injector...need to keep it close to the surface for best bubbles (fine misty type). Oh, and buddha...that whole 'outlet to a milk jug thing is already part of it since day one (hence the non removable collection area)...that hole was labelled #3 on the first diagram. Really, at this point, I have it almost all figured out. I have done two prototypes at this point...measured and adjusted...and come up with final measurements for the water height, injector level type and angle, etc....only thing left to do is get the right foam riser height and width. Buddha, for comparison, how far up from the water level did the foam have to rise to overflow in your nanoremora? And what was the diameter on that tube? I have looked at your diagram, but it is a little unclear in that area. Also, what size pump did it run off of for comparison? Hey guys, this is getting pretty good. Thanks to you all. So far it looks like we will be able to make a skimmer good enough for up to a 20g that takes up only 1"x2.5"x11"....WOW. And, I will check with the legalities, but Im pretty sure that the injector system is simple enough (a short spraybar really....cant patent that) that making these for others might be practical...Heck, $1 of plexi and a few pieces of PVC...talk about profit margin even if they were sold for just $20...still a fraction of what a half way decent skimmer would be from a major MFG. Just a thought. Link to comment
Reefer_Buddha Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 well i wasnt on the thread on day one Its a great idea i cant wait to see what you have for the final product. If you get the patent down then pump em out. Just remember me when youre famous! My riser specs are on the nanomora thread, i made a diagram. Off the top of my head i think its 4" from the foam level to in the cup. the diameter of the tube is 1" i believe. The pump i used was a maxijet 900. Around 230gph is what runs it smooth. Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Thanks Buddha... no wonder our foam isnt making it up high enough....you had as much flow in your nanoremora as a regular one!!! Im trying to stick with 1/4 to 1/3 of that. LOL. Ok, so Im thinking I will try a 1/2" x 1" (square, not round like yours..and tapered too...1" at the bottom and 1/4" at the top...or something like that) area with about 2" of rising height. Then we should get some foam out of this puppy. Well, You guys will have to cut me some slack here. I have a busy weekend ahead of me. Out at a job site tomorrow morning until 4pm, and then I have to drive the woman to O'hare in chi-town for her flight to Europe. I wont make it back until midnight. Then a 6am meeting Sunday, family stuff all day then... The good news is that I am picking up a $2000 plexi & glass cutting machine that my work no longer needs for $50. Then I will be whip out these things much faster than having to rig up the table saw every time at my uncles (my table saw sucks for cutting plexi compared to his $1500 pro grade JET saw). So, monday mornin I should have a chance to get a final done. I also need to start making those battery powered top-offs for people...Im getting employed by nanos...funny. Link to comment
Reefer_Buddha Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 we need to figure out if there is any possible way to skim freshwater tanks. Talk about an untapped market . BTW i looked at that angel force 4. PRICEY! I used to play paintball i love it, just no time to get to arenas and im sure its costly to startup again. Last time i was playin tippman was the top guns. *EDIT* ok, i saw noone's video and im seeing something that could be a major problem...actually...2 problems. 1. I couldnt really tell but are you just leaving the top open? If so youre not creating a pressurized skimmer and thats a main problem for not getting foam high enough into the reaction chamber. On my nanomora i dont have any type of pressure release hole drilled at all and i get foam all the time. If i want to increase it a little i might just crack the lid on the collection cup. Since youre dealing with a set collection chamber i would construct a top for it then make some kinda valve for the air inlet to deal with internal pressure. Also id shorten the foam chamber so it doesnt have to go so high. Maybe 2 inches high over the injector. 2. In your video i see youre not shooting bubbles straight down but if you look closely they're coming right back up to the injection point. In the remora they have a baffle that channels the bubbles over to the side. It really does help and i think if you make something similar instead of just turning the knob it would help. I think if you angle the injector you are losing the injection potential as opposed to a straight down force into the water. Just some thoughts. Link to comment
RP Beesh Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 keep up the great work and good luck to your i'm just a person that love when people think of their own diy. but for myself i'm young and willing to learn others trait so this have been a great experinece for me. i'm planning to make one by following your plan if you don't mind? because this is your work and i don't want to offend you by not asking you first before i start making one. the question i have is what is the air inlet and and you show me it with a real live pix? thank for the great insight. if you start building and selling i i'm welling to buy one even if i make one myself because i got great respect for what you are doin. Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 RP...go right ahead...ideas are free and for everyone IMO. Buddha. Hmmm, I cant see the video still, but the injector is supposed to be at an angle to spray the bubbles over and under the baffle so that they rise in the collection area. It doesnt seem like Im loosing any potential here....hmmm. I will diddle with adding another baffle however after the weekend. Maybe... As far as the pressure thing...you got me on that one! Do yo really think the pressure that the pump is enough to do anything? I dont get that one... Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Oh, and skimming isnt possible for FW I think. Saltwater foams up easily...fresh water is very hard to do that with. Every time I try to test a skimer on FW, you know, to get it tuned and such before letting it rip on a reef, I have never gotten anything. And Buddha, on the marker...not the Angel Force...the Angel Force FLY...$1575. Angels have always been my dream gun...glad I finally bought one after all these years... Link to comment
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