Seabass's In-wall 100 Gallon

[seabass]

it seems crazy, but they start talking about dosing bleach on page 70. I have to say that this is intriguing. Thanks Marc!

 

I'm reading through it now to see if it has any merit or negative consequences. They add chlorine to drinking water, so I can imagine that it could possibly be safe at a low enough level.

[seabass]

The following is a summary about dosing bleach from that thread:

 

This is the dosage of bleach that they were initially talking about:

Ok so as 100% hth, you need .003ML per gallon.

So when this comes into play with your write up the bleach dosage will be

.003ml divided by the percent listed on the bottle as a decimal... so 8percent will be .003/.08=.0375ml per gallon.

Or say your bottle says 6.75percent hth. The math wpuld be .003/.0675=0.045ml per gallon.

However, please understand that I'm not recommending anybody actually do this at this time. Much higher doses require you to move your fish into a QT tank during treatments. There was also a concern that higher doses could also potentially kill beneficial bacteria, and require the addition of nitrifying bacteria cultures, such as DrTim's One and Only.

 

Bleach was initially being use in a trio of products that also included:

5ml per 10 gallons of API's Melafix

2ml per 10 gallons of ME Coral's Wash Off (4x strength)

(discontinue use of activated carbon to allow chlorine to dissipate naturally)

 

As a side effect, it was reported that this treatment was effective on bryopsis. Also, bleach is said to make your protein skimmer go nuts. However, bleach (at this dosage) does not take care of cyano.

 

A one time dose is not likely to be 100% effective; and not everyone is seeing good results. Although there was some confusion, as cyano replaced dinos in some tanks (and was initially misidentified as dinos).

 

One member cleaned daily, and dosed (just bleach) every 12 hours. After one week, the dinos decreased, but were not gone (corals, fish, and other livestock seemed to be doing well). Finally, after 3 weeks of dosing bleach, the dinos were mostly gone and he was considering upping the dosage.

 

A one time 3ml dose of 8% to 20 gallons (1ml of 8% for every 6.7 gallons) was enough to eradicate the dinos. However, a dose this large would also kill your fish and nitrifying bacteria. Maybe this would be an effective coral dip.

 

There was also separate talk about treating dinos with Seachem's MetroPlex or medical grade metronidazole (metro). It was suggested that dosing multiple times for 7 to 10 days might be an effective treatment for some varieties. However, metro appears to improve symptoms more than it eradicates all of the dinos (although most people didn't dose multiple times throughout the day, and/or sustain treatments for 7 to 10 days).

[jedimasterben]

Hydrogen peroxide is a much​ stronger oxidizer than bleach. I have no clue why anyone would want to use bleach instead.

[seabass]

Hydrogen peroxide is a much​ stronger oxidizer than bleach. I have no clue why anyone would want to use bleach instead.

The discussion was that bleach lasted longer than peroxide. Apparently the duration plays a role. IDK, just repeating what was said in the thread.

 

I don't believe there was any scientific reasoning to this initial dosage. It was based on the amount that member (twilliard), used to treat his 20 gallon tank. Since then, he has experimented a little with dosages (losing all the fish in his frag tank, and an angelfish in his DT). He has then dosed approximately 5 times the initial dosage in his fishless frag tank (apparently without any additional losses).

[seabass]

After finishing that thread, I'm still not completely sold on dosing bleach (especially with fish in it). Peroxide seems to be doing well and shouldn't be as hard on the fish.

 

Sorry Ben, but I think I'm still thinking about tearing this sucka apart. I've been having good luck with peroxide, so I still plan on dipping the rocks and corals in H2O2, then running bleach though the bare system to disinfect it.

My tank looks fine now. I just don't want this to resurface and linger on.

[jedimasterben]

You sure you don't want to try the bigass sterilizer? It's literally just going to sit here until I get tired of seeing it and toss it out lol. It is a far better long term solution unless you set up a dosing pump to push out peroxide.

[seabass]

You sure you don't want to try the bigass sterilizer?

IDK, I kind of want to try it. But I'm not sure that I need it, or that it will even kill all the dinos. I see UV as more of an effort to control than to eradicate (as not all free swimming dinos will even make their way to the sump). How come you aren't using it?

 

I don't foresee having to dose peroxide indefinitely. I hope I'm right. However, I don't want to quit too early either (like taking only half of your antibiotics because you are feeling better). It's also why I feel that I should clean out the tank (sort of a final nail kind of thing).

 

I'm not sure if my UV is doing anything or not, but I'm seeing good results (getting rid of the dinos) with it, the peroxide, and light restriction (although the BTAs, some of the palys, and all of the zoas are irritated). I will continue the peroxide at night, even though the rocks and sand look sterile. I've dosed up to 5ml of 35% (equivalent to 58.3ml of 3%, or almost 5 times the typical 1ml of 3% for every 10 gallons). I'm going to try to up the light cycle a little longer; hopefully the BTAs will respond favorably. If not, I'll try reducing the peroxide dosage.

 

Other things going on:

• I have no pods or algae (or herbivorous snails) in my tank. The blenny is the only herbivore in the tank (I feed it Formula Two and some Spirulina flakes).
• I still get half a skimmer cup full of wet skimmate from my (ASM G4) skimmer daily.
• The tank currently has less than 10x turnover. I'll be adding an MP10 to get it up to a more acceptable flow rate.
• I plan on adding more bacteria cultures (DrTim's Waste-Away and Microbacter⁷).
• After I'm done with the peroxide treatments, I plan to reintroduce some pods.

[seabass]

Dosing Bleach in my 40B
I thought I'd post this here because we were just talking about it, and I don't have a thread for the 40 breeder. Anyway, I have some persistent pest algae in that tank and was about to break up the rocks and remove the rock flower anemones to be done with it (I still might).

This tank has no fish, just a few frags, snails, and a couple dozen rock flower anemones (most were born in this tank). The R2R dino thread indicated that the bleach protocol was also effective on bryopsis, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

I dosed 2ml of 8% bleach into my 40 breeder. I'm still wondering if that was a mistake. Not that anything bad has happened, I just can't believe that I did it. The anemones reacted immediately (retracting like they would when dosing peroxide). I was expecting some bubbling from the algae, but nothing.

I read that dosing bleach makes your skimmer go nuts, but I think that reaction was due to the dinos and not the bleach itself. I was expecting a reaction like ChemiClean has on the skimmer, but my HOB Remora skimmer didn't overflow. However, the skimmate did change consistency (it was a little thicker than normal).


The coral frags seemed unaffected and the RFAs opened back up relatively quickly. The snails also seemed to be unaffected. With the bleach in the tank I took a tooth brush to the rocks. This was basically a test, but I don't have any plans on dosing my 100 gallon with bleach. I'm not sure how successful, if at all, this experiment will be. Also, I haven't decided if I will do another dose tomorrow.


Edit 9/3/16: The next day I dosed 16ml of 35% peroxide (equivalent to about 40ml of 3% per 10 gallons, or 40 times the typically recommended amount). All of the snails retracted into their shells, and I lost my turbo snail. Today, I dosed a second 2ml dose of 8% bleach. Surprisingly, the anemones barely reacted. Also, the skimmer stopped producing skimmate for few hours.

 

Even though I really like the shape of these rocks, I think that I'm just going to break them up and remove the anemones.

[jedimasterben]

IDK, I kind of want to try it. But I'm not sure that I need it, or that it will even kill all the dinos. I see UV as more of an effort to control than to eradicate

There is, unfortunately, no such thing as eradication if you want to keep anything that you have now in regards to livestock (fish, coral, etc).

 

I'm not using it because I have nowhere to put it - my stand is 21" wide and this thing is over 24.

[seabass]

The R2R thread gives me hope. I'm pretty confident that twilliard's frag tank is free of them (which is backed up with samples under his microscope). His display tank went through a less intense dosing regime (which didn't kill off the biofilter) and also shows no microscopic evidence of dinos. I'm hoping this is possible with peroxide dosing (much higher than the typical dosage of 1ml per 10 gallons). I might need to pick up a microscope.

[jedimasterben]

The R2R thread gives me hope. I'm pretty confident that twilliard's frag tank is free of them (which is backed up with samples under his microscope). His display tank went through a less intense dosing regime (which didn't kill off the biofilter) and also shows no microscopic evidence of dinos. I'm hoping this is possible with peroxide dosing (much higher than the typical dosage of 1ml per 10 gallons). I might need to pick up a microscope.

Been there, done that. Was dosing a liter per day of 3% into my 80g tank with no results to speak of besides more dead coral than when I started.

[seabass]

Been there, done that. Was dosing a liter per day of 3% into my 80g tank with no results to speak of besides more dead coral than when I started.

 

You're such a downer man.

[jedimasterben]

 

You're such a downer man.

They don't call me buzz kill Ben for nothin'

[metrokat]

FWIW, I had a case of dinos and I used Brightwell MicroBacter CLEAN. Over time it works on many problems but I saw it work on the dinos within a few days. I am not sure if it works for every species of dino, I'm just glad it did for mine.

[seabass]

FWIW, I had a case of dinos and I used Brightwell MicroBacter CLEAN. Over time it works on many problems but I saw it work on the dinos within a few days. I am not sure if it works for every species of dino, I'm just glad it did for mine.

Thanks. I don't know if I ever stated it in this thread, but I purchased a 4L jug of it, maybe a couple of months ago. I've been dosing it in this tank and my 40B. However lately, I've just used it in the 40B. I should probably start it up again in this tank too (heck, I've got a huge jug of it). It didn't cure my tank on the first go around, but maybe it helps a little (I don't feel like it could hurt).

[metrokat]

Thanks. I don't know if I ever stated it in this thread, but I purchased a 4L jug of it, maybe a couple of months ago. I've been dosing it in this tank and my 40B. However lately, I've just used it in the 40B. I should probably start it up again in this tank too (heck, I've got a huge jug of it). It didn't cure my tank on the first go around, but maybe it helps a little (I don't feel like it could hurt).

It doesn't hurt but with all things, the dosage has to be right for the individual tank. Over time I believe it works on all types of algaes and makes a tank pristine. Clams can get into a snit and that is an indication that nutrients are too low. Reef Biofuel enhances the bacterial action as it is a carbon source.

[seabass]

So my skimmer was overflowing and my male clownfish wouldn't leave his rock to eat. Upon closer look...

"Don't touch my babies!"

 

Unfortunately, I'm not prepared to raise the fry.

[Pinner Reef]

What does the skimmer have to do with the clown's behbies? Not that it's a bad thing just wondering why your were concerned between the two.

 

Also, congrats on the behbies... apparently you're doing something correct.

[seabass]

What does the skimmer have to do with the clown's behbies?

I'm not sure if it was due to spawning, but it collected more skimmate than usual. I thought that this was a little odd; but by itself, I wouldn't have looked any closer.

 

The male has been absolutely obsessed with that rock lately, but he would always stray far enough away to eat. However this time, he refused to leave even with some food drifting nearby. This got my attention.

 

The female ate like usual. She has been interested in what her mate has been doing, but isn't glued to the rock. Tonight, the male was sleeping alone, right up against the clutch.

 

Also, congrats on the behbies... apparently you're doing something correct.

Thank you. But I feel they did this in spite of anything that I'm doing right. I wouldn't even consider this tank all that stable at this point.

[owlshead19]

 

I'll be putting the tank on the stand this week. I know... Whoa... Slow down!!!

 

I saw this and immediately ordered one from Amazon. Wow - just wow - where has this power strip been all my life?

[FlowerMama]

So my skimmer was overflowing and my male clownfish wouldn't leave his rock to eat. Upon closer look...

"Don't touch my babies!"

 

Unfortunately, I'm not prepared to raise the fry.

 

Oh the sad look on its face! Just found your thread.

[pappadumplingz]

Have the eggs hatched yet? Are you planning on raising the fry or letting them fend for themselves.

[seabass]

They hatched last week. I stayed up waiting for it to happen (nothing after 8 hours of waiting). However, when I checked again, they had hatched and were gone. Three days later, they had another clutch: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/377336-second-clownfish-clutch-day-2-new-batch/ I hope to save a few this time.

[pappadumplingz]

They hatched last week. I stayed up waiting for it to happen (nothing after 8 hours of waiting). However, when I checked again, they had hatched and were gone. Three days later, they had another clutch: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/377336-second-clownfish-clutch-day-2-new-batch/ I hope to save a few this time.

This might be a bit more aggressive, but I've seen people move the whole rock into a different tank, and using a sponge filter, keep as many babies alive with Rotifiers. It might be the solution you are looking for if you want to raise a few.

[seabass]

Thanks, that's essentially the plan going forward (except swapping an airstone for the sponge filter). I'm currently working on a rotifer culture and plan to start a phyto culture tomorrow.