Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[tibbsy07]

I would highly NOT recommend trying to concentrate hydrogen peroxide. It is VERY dangerous. Seriously, it will burn the shit out of you. It is diluted to 3% for home use because this has been scientifically shown to be effective for what we need without hurting us. I have had a single drop of 30% hydrogen peroxide drip on to my shoe before and within seconds there was a quarter-sized hole. Seriously people - DO NOT TRY TO CONCENTRATE H2O2. If you do end up purchasing the 30-35% lab grade stuff, keep it in the secondary container it comes it and keep it in the fridge. Make sure that there is plenty of head space in the bottle so there are no drips, etc.

 

A question about the oxydators... Jedimasterben and I were discussing them a bit, and this little point came up. At 77 F, the solubility of oxygen in sea water (salinity ~35ppt) is 6.6 ppm. It goes down the warmer the water. How does this work beyond the saturation point? I'd like some actual data about how the catalyst works, etc. Anyone have any?

[albertthiel]

I would highly NOT recommend trying to concentrate hydrogen peroxide. It is VERY dangerous. Seriously, it will burn the shit out of you. It is diluted to 3% for home use because this has been scientifically shown to be effective for what we need without hurting us. I have had a single drop of 30% hydrogen peroxide drip on to my shoe before and within seconds there was a quarter-sized hole. Seriously people - DO NOT TRY TO CONCENTRATE H2O2. If you do end up purchasing the 30-35% lab grade stuff, keep it in the secondary container it comes it and keep it in the fridge. Make sure that there is plenty of head space in the bottle so there are no drips, etc.

 

A question about the oxydators... Jedimasterben and I were discussing them a bit, and this little point came up. At 77 F, the solubility of oxygen in sea water (salinity ~35ppt) is 6.6 ppm. It goes down the warmer the water. How does this work beyond the saturation point? I'd like some actual data about how the catalyst works, etc. Anyone have any?

 

The fact that concentrating it can be dangerous is the reason that I added teh caution. When done correctly there is no risk but only under such circumstances

 

Also on the effect of the Oxydator : what we are dealing with is a state of super saturation of oxygen in the water, a state that occurs in ocean waters as well ... you can find references to super saturation by doing some research on the Net.

 

Of course, if the release of oxygen from the Oxydator were not continuous, the excess oxygen would escape and the % would go down to its normal level for the temp and salinity of the water but, since the Oxydator releases oxygen on a constant basis, the state of super saturation continues and is maintained, with the benefits that have been outlined earlier in this and other threads

 

Albert

[tibbsy07]

Is there any actual data, via oxygen probes, etc. to measure the results outlined here and elsewhere? I see a lot of "It works great for me!" kind of responses, but very little hard data.

 

Supersaturation is a real thing, yes, but it's a balance. Too much supersaturation in (over 110%) can cause gas bubble disease in certain fish species, which basically acts like the bends in fish. DOC can be 165% in seawater, but that's bad. That's a LOT.

 

Adding oxygen would be really beneficial in areas with lots of dissolved organic material that are deep and don't get much light to activate photosynthesis, resulting in lower oxygen. At the surface, combined with water changes, I'm not sure there would be any benefit, especially because the photosynthesis in our tanks creates a lot of oxygen anyways. I'm not saying it's BS - it may very well work, I'm just skeptical on how well until I can get my hands on some actual data.

[steelfin]

I thought I contacted the manufacturer directly. Contact info below.

 

Dr. Uwe Kohler

Dr. rer. nat. K. Söchting Biotechnik GmbH

Lindenweg 1 - D-82544 Attenham

Telefon: ++49 (0) 8176-7367

Telefax: ++49 (0) 8176-7060

www.oxydator.de

oxydator@t-online.de

I think "sweat" was supposed to be "salt" in his email response.

Thanks

George

[albertthiel]

Is there any actual data, via oxygen probes, etc. to measure the results outlined here and elsewhere? I see a lot of "It works great for me!" kind of responses, but very little hard data.

 

Supersaturation is a real thing, yes, but it's a balance. Too much supersaturation in (over 110%) can cause gas bubble disease in certain fish species, which basically acts like the bends in fish. DOC can be 165% in seawater, but that's bad. That's a LOT.

 

Adding oxygen would be really beneficial in areas with lots of dissolved organic material that are deep and don't get much light to activate photosynthesis, resulting in lower oxygen. At the surface, combined with water changes, I'm not sure there would be any benefit, especially because the photosynthesis in our tanks creates a lot of oxygen anyways. I'm not saying it's BS - it may very well work, I'm just skeptical on how well until I can get my hands on some actual data.

 

I understand your concerns but I have not seen any such studies but then we use a lot of products on our aquariums for which there are no scientific and specific studies, e,.g, a particular brand of GAC vs another, or one salt vs another or one food against another brand etc. etc ..

 

OTOH I have never had any negative effects from using them even with higher concentration %'s of H2O2.

 

But you could contact the manufacturer which is listed above (Sochting) if you wish to find out more about studies that have been done or may be available. Note that the Oxydator has been around for over 25 years and is still very widely used in Europe.

 

Albert

[tibbsy07]

 

I understand your concerns but I have not seen any such studies but then we use a lot of products on our aquariums for which there are no scientific and specific studies, e,.g, a particular brand of GAC vs another, or one salt vs another or one food against another brand etc. etc ..

 

OTOH I have never had any negative effects from using them even with higher concentration %'s of H2O2.

 

But you could contact the manufacturer which is listed above (Sochting) if you wish to find out more about studies that have been done or may be available. Note that the Oxydator has been around for over 25 years and is still very widely used in Europe.

 

Albert

Sure, and this thing may very well work. At the very least it won't hurt anything (I don't think it's possible in our tanks to go too far in supersaturation because of their depth). For the 20 bucks or so it would cost me I may give it a try. I wonder if it would boost Dr Tim's waste-away product?

[albertthiel]

 

I thought I contacted the manufacturer directly. Contact info below.

 

Dr. Uwe Kohler

Dr. rer. nat. K. Söchting Biotechnik GmbH

Lindenweg 1 - D-82544 Attenham

Telefon: ++49 (0) 8176-7367

Telefax: ++49 (0) 8176-7060

www.oxydator.de

oxydator@t-online.de

I think "sweat" was supposed to be "salt" in his email response.

Thanks

George

 

 

Thanks. As we said that was a very odd reply that you got ... maybe a language issue not sure.

 

But as we said if well set up no peroxide gets into the water

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Sure, and this thing may very well work. At the very least it won't hurt anything (I don't think it's possible in our tanks to go too far in supersaturation because of their depth). For the 20 bucks or so it would cost me I may give it a try. I wonder if it would boost Dr Tim's waste-away product?

 

 

Indeed, as long as you get the right size and the correct peroxide concentration (I use 6%) you should see the benefits of it just as those who use it do and report ...

 

As to boost Dr Tim's waste-away, I cannot speak for that as I do not use it and have not tested it with an Oxydator. I do not see why it would have any adverse effects though.

 

Hope all of this helps ... note that there are other forum threads on Oxydators and they all report the same : excellent resutls

 

Les (Atoll) who has used it for 20+ years I think can chime in and give you more confirmations of what I stated

 

Albert

[steelfin]

 

Thanks. As we said that was a very odd reply that you got ... maybe a language issue not sure.

 

But as we said if well set up no peroxide gets into the water

 

Albert

 

 

Maybe it was just a CYA response.

 

What are you thoughts on using the oxydator with cleaner shrimp / pistol shrimp?

 

I would think if no (or very little) H202 enters the water, it should be safe...

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

George

[albertthiel]

 

 

Maybe it was just a CYA response.

 

What are you thoughts on using the oxydator with cleaner shrimp / pistol shrimp?

 

I would think if no (or very little) H202 enters the water, it should be safe...

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

George

 

You can safely use it with seahorses, shrimp and any other delicate organisms but as stated it has to be properly set up so that no or only at worst a very minimal amount of H2O2 gets into the water which would if it were the case (and it should not be) as Les pointed out would be neutralized very quickly

 

People inject H2O2 into their aquariums to kill off GHA and other nuisance algae and in many cases those tanks have shrimp in it and no one has reported adverse effects to my knowledge

 

Albert

[atoll]

Sorry I have been away watching what you over there may call the ball game.

 

I will try and answer the questions poised above as best I can but you have to understand I am a simple hobbyist not a scientist.

 

I have been using Oxydator's for around 25 years on various aquariums both reef and fish only.

I have experimented with up to and including 17% peroxide and various number of Oxydator catalysts. Please do NOT try it. The highest percentage of peroxide I would advise is 9% at most. The reason I pushed higher the peroxide percentage was to find the limit and i most certainly did and as I found out nems are the first to react negatively if you over do the peroxide and or catalysts.

 

I have kept various shrimps in my set ups and never had a problem keeping them with Oxydators.

When I was carrying out my experiments on 2 tanks I was fortunate to have a lab quality redox meter which in those days was analog not digital. I have the results of those experiments in my attic/roof space but I have to move a lot of stuff just to get access to the attic. I will do one day.

I never had and still don't have access to an oxygen meter but if you would like to pop over to the UK with yours your very welcome to

I have known cyno to be cured with an Oxydator many times, can I prove it scientifically no.

 

I only have my eyes and my experience using Oxydator's for 25 years to call on but what I have found and reported on has been backed up time and time again by other hobbyists in the UK and in the last year as Oydator's have become more popular in the US mainly due to Albert endorsing them.

 

You often find the glass of your aquarium needs cleaning far less as Albert and others have found.

Your aquarium water will become crystal clear in a short period after installation of an Oxydator.

 

I have witnessed newly introduced fish gasping on the bottom of tanks due to stress brought round by the use of an Oxydator (think of the Oxydator as putting an oxygen mask on the fish) Can I prove it scientifically no as said above.

 

Many Seahorse keepers and indeed both home and professional breeders here in the UK use Oxydator's in their tanks even fry tanks and report increased survival rates.

 

If I haven't covered all the questions then sorry please let me know and I will do my best as a simple hobbyist to answer them but if you are looking for laboratory and or scientific proof sorry I am not the person to provide such.

 

Thanks

Les.

[atoll]

Here is a copy of a piece I wrote sometime ago some might find helpful and add to the debate.

 

Oxydator’s: What are they how do they work and what benefits do they bring

By Les Melling

I have been using Oxydator’s for many years with great results in my marine tanks. They are powered by Hydrogen peroxide and help to eliminate and keep at bay hair algae’s and cyno. An Oxydator will elevate the oxygen of the aquarium water reducing stress and aiding water quality. A number of Seahorse breeders both home and commercial employ them in their systems and have found they help with the survival rate of Seahorse fry.

Oxydator’s have been used in Europe for many years in both fresh water aquariums. The peroxide is not administered directly into the tank (and so is far safer) but uses a catalyst to break the hydrogen peroxide down in activated oxygen and water. The process increases redox and helps cleans the aquarium water and keep it gin clear eliminating any yellowing. The effect in many ways is similar to ozone but no electricity is used as the oxydator is self powering. I have introduced many reefers in the UK to the virtues and use of Oxydator’s over the years as little appeared to be known about them.

Due to the Oxydator's oxidizing capacity, your water quality will be improved and many harmful contaminants in your water will be neutralized. Oxydator’s are also an aid in fighting various nuisance algae and cyno.

The benefits of adding hydrogen peroxide to an aquarium in cases of acute oxygen deficiency, water putrefaction and water turbidity, spawn fungus, or for enriching the well being of your fish have been known for a long time.

Söchting Oxydator’s breaks the Hydrogen peroxide down into oxygen (O2) and water (H2O).

The advantage: Your aquarium's water quality will be fundamentally improved and problems such as those aforementioned will be greatly hindered.

The Söchting Oxydator breaks down hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen:

2 H2O2 ----------------------------> 2 H2O + O2

My Oxydator is situated in the rear RH side of the tank almost out of view however it could just as easily be put in one of the rear filter chambers.

using the catalyst the peroxide is broken down in the Oxydator and defuses out through a pin hole under the bell housing. Only pure oxygen and water are released nothing else and no peroxide directly enters the aquarium etc..

When in use you might just be able to see some microscopic oxygen bubbles leaving the reactor for a little while, while it settles down. Some of the bubbles are so small that they don't tend to rise but leave the Oxydator and drift horizontally in the water column. I have never witnessed any adverse effects from these bubbles on any of my corals or fish. The appearance of these fine bubbles happens mainly after first introducing the Oxydator and after each refilling. From time to time larger bubbles are released esp after filling and introduction, again these are of no concern or danger.

More info here.

http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html

This is a quote from Dan Underwood, owner and operations of seahorsesource.com.

"As mentioned above, the Oxydators work by the catalyst reacting with the peroxide. This releases the gas inside the device and the gas O2 rises. As it expands. Using the recommend size oxydator and the recommended solution, I have not been able to get a peroxide reading in a tank. When I have increased the strength several times that of the recommendation, I did get peroxide readings.

I too have done peroxide dosing on tanks. Even when dosing 5 to 10 mg/L daily, I have found the Oxydator’s worked better. My guess is because they are constantly working in a slow regulated way”

There are 4 Oxydator’s in the range the Mini, D, A and W. Note the “W” version is very large and only recommended for ponds and large systems.

MODEL SPECIFICATIONS FROM THE OXYDATOR WEB SITE.

Mini D A

Height. 6cm 8.5cm 18cm

Diameter 4cm 8.5cm 9cm

Aquarium size up to 30Ltrs 100Ltrs 400Ltrs

Peroxide lasting Approx 4weeks 2 -4weeks 2 to 8 weeks

Each model comes with its own catalysts one each for the mini and “D” models 2 with the “A” model. More catalysts can be bought if needed but they are everlasting more or less. Up to 11% food grade hydrogen peroxide can be bough via the net in various quantities inc eBay. If buying 11% then you can dilute it using RO water almost doubling the initial quantity which is very cost effective.

Finally Just how long the peroxide last is influenced by a number of factors esp temperature and number of catalysts used as in the “A” model which comes with 2.

Les.

[albertthiel]

 

Here is a copy of a piece I wrote sometime ago some might find helpful and add to the debate.

 

Oxydator’s: What are they how do they work and what benefits do they bring

By Les Melling

I have been using Oxydator’s for many years with great results in my marine tanks. They are powered by Hydrogen peroxide and help to eliminate and keep at bay hair algae’s and cyno. An Oxydator will elevate the oxygen of the aquarium water reducing stress and aiding water quality. A number of Seahorse breeders both home and commercial employ them in their systems and have found they help with the survival rate of Seahorse fry.

Oxydator’s have been used in Europe for many years in both fresh water aquariums. The peroxide is not administered directly into the tank (and so is far safer) but uses a catalyst to break the hydrogen peroxide down in activated oxygen and water. The process increases redox and helps cleans the aquarium water and keep it gin clear eliminating any yellowing. The effect in many ways is similar to ozone but no electricity is used as the oxydator is self powering. I have introduced many reefers in the UK to the virtues and use of Oxydator’s over the years as little appeared to be known about them.

Due to the Oxydator's oxidizing capacity, your water quality will be improved and many harmful contaminants in your water will be neutralized. Oxydator’s are also an aid in fighting various nuisance algae and cyno.

The benefits of adding hydrogen peroxide to an aquarium in cases of acute oxygen deficiency, water putrefaction and water turbidity, spawn fungus, or for enriching the well being of your fish have been known for a long time.

Söchting Oxydator’s breaks the Hydrogen peroxide down into oxygen (O2) and water (H2O).

The advantage: Your aquarium's water quality will be fundamentally improved and problems such as those aforementioned will be greatly hindered.

The Söchting Oxydator breaks down hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen:

2 H2O2 ----------------------------> 2 H2O + O2

My Oxydator is situated in the rear RH side of the tank almost out of view however it could just as easily be put in one of the rear filter chambers.

using the catalyst the peroxide is broken down in the Oxydator and defuses out through a pin hole under the bell housing. Only pure oxygen and water are released nothing else and no peroxide directly enters the aquarium etc..

When in use you might just be able to see some microscopic oxygen bubbles leaving the reactor for a little while, while it settles down. Some of the bubbles are so small that they don't tend to rise but leave the Oxydator and drift horizontally in the water column. I have never witnessed any adverse effects from these bubbles on any of my corals or fish. The appearance of these fine bubbles happens mainly after first introducing the Oxydator and after each refilling. From time to time larger bubbles are released esp after filling and introduction, again these are of no concern or danger.

More info here.

http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html

This is a quote from Dan Underwood, owner and operations of seahorsesource.com.

"As mentioned above, the Oxydators work by the catalyst reacting with the peroxide. This releases the gas inside the device and the gas O2 rises. As it expands. Using the recommend size oxydator and the recommended solution, I have not been able to get a peroxide reading in a tank. When I have increased the strength several times that of the recommendation, I did get peroxide readings.

I too have done peroxide dosing on tanks. Even when dosing 5 to 10 mg/L daily, I have found the Oxydator’s worked better. My guess is because they are constantly working in a slow regulated way”

There are 4 Oxydator’s in the range the Mini, D, A and W. Note the “W” version is very large and only recommended for ponds and large systems.

MODEL SPECIFICATIONS FROM THE OXYDATOR WEB SITE.

Mini D A

Height. 6cm 8.5cm 18cm

Diameter 4cm 8.5cm 9cm

Aquarium size up to 30Ltrs 100Ltrs 400Ltrs

Peroxide lasting Approx 4weeks 2 -4weeks 2 to 8 weeks

Each model comes with its own catalysts one each for the mini and “D” models 2 with the “A” model. More catalysts can be bought if needed but they are everlasting more or less. Up to 11% food grade hydrogen peroxide can be bough via the net in various quantities inc eBay. If buying 11% then you can dilute it using RO water almost doubling the initial quantity which is very cost effective.

Finally Just how long the peroxide last is influenced by a number of factors esp temperature and number of catalysts used as in the “A” model which comes with 2.

Les.

 

 

Thanks Les for the detailed explanation I am sure it will help a number of those who are following this thread

 

Albert

[atoll]

It may help some but not all which is fine. People can make up their own minds and it's not as if Oxydator's as an expensive item to even try. I wire about and advise people on Oxydator' simply because I believe in them and a lot more do now esp since you have found for yourself the benefits they can bring and have written about them in your book and on various forums etc.

[martinicu]

Hi everyone. I just started reading this thread. It's interesting to me as an optometrist for the following reason. People who wear soft contact lenses must disinfect their lenses overnight. One of the best systems that has been used for years consists of a bottle oh hydrogen peroxide and a holding system for the contact lenses themselves. At the bottom of the holding container is a disc which converts the h2o2 to separate components. It is referred to as the "catalytic disc" . When the lens holding case is place into the cup with the h2o2 you can actually see the bubbling effect caused by the disc.

 

So I am really just adding this to the conversation as an additional fact that when broken down by the disc it is then safe to put the soft contact lenses in your eyes the next day.

 

Martin

[albertthiel]

It may help some but not all which is fine. People can make up their own minds and it's not as if Oxydator's as an expensive item to even try. I wire about and advise people on Oxydator' simply because I believe in them and a lot more do now esp since you have found for yourself the benefits they can bring and have written about them in your book and on various forums etc.

 

Its use is certainly increasing Les and there is no doubt in my mind based on the experience I have had that Oxydators have great benefits for any tank ... but indeed some may just have to try them for themselves to experience the results if what you wrote and what I wrote is not enough for them

 

The short of it is that they do the job as described many a time by yourself and others

 

Albert

[atoll]

Hi everyone. I just started reading this thread. It's interesting to me as an optometrist for the following reason. People who wear soft contact lenses must disinfect their lenses overnight. One of the best systems that has been used for years consists of a bottle oh hydrogen peroxide and a holding system for the contact lenses themselves. At the bottom of the holding container is a disc which converts the h2o2 to separate components. It is referred to as the "catalytic disc" . When the lens holding case is place into the cup with the h2o2 you can actually see the bubbling effect caused by the disc.

 

So I am really just adding this to the conversation as an additional fact that when broken down by the disc it is then safe to put the soft contact lenses in your eyes the next day.

 

Martin

That's interesting and thanks for that.

Of course Hydrogen peroxide is used in many applications hence peroxide blonde Yes the same stuff some used and still do to bleach their hair. You can use it to disinfect cuts and clean all manner of things. After all hydrogen peroxide is a bleach and as with any bleach you have to be a little careful how you use it. There are even people who drink it greatly diluted of course.

[albertthiel]

Hi everyone. I just started reading this thread. It's interesting to me as an optometrist for the following reason. People who wear soft contact lenses must disinfect their lenses overnight. One of the best systems that has been used for years consists of a bottle oh hydrogen peroxide and a holding system for the contact lenses themselves. At the bottom of the holding container is a disc which converts the h2o2 to separate components. It is referred to as the "catalytic disc" . When the lens holding case is place into the cup with the h2o2 you can actually see the bubbling effect caused by the disc.

 

So I am really just adding this to the conversation as an additional fact that when broken down by the disc it is then safe to put the soft contact lenses in your eyes the next day.

 

Martin

 

Thanks for that contribution ... a very interesting one indeed illustrating the safety of H2O2 when properly used and its cleaning and purification abilities

 

Thank you

 

Albert

[martinicu]

Hello it's Martin again.

So I am a member here and I do have a 12 gal long. I had a fish only salt water many many moons ago. Now I really enjoy my little reef at the end of the day. My major problem is GHA . My parameters are all good . Do you think the mini oxydator Would help me rid the tank of this nuisance.?

Thank you

[tibbsy07]

Hmmm, for the 18 bucks for the mini plus the 9% peroxide costing like 15 bucks, I may give it a try. Can't really hurt.

[albertthiel]

Hmmm, for the 18 bucks for the mini plus the 9% peroxide costing like 15 bucks, I may give it a try. Can't really hurt.

 

No it certainly can't, on the contrary

 

Albert

[atoll]

Oxydator's do not suggest they can clear algae problems but given they are an aid to good water quality they can assist with its demise.

Oxydator's do not suggest they can clear algae problems but given they are an aid to good water quality they can assist with its demise.

Oxydator's do not suggest they can clear algae problems but given they are an aid to good water quality they can assist with its demise.

Oops double post sorry

[albertthiel]

Hello it's Martin again.

So I am a member here and I do have a 12 gal long. I had a fish only salt water many many moons ago. Now I really enjoy my little reef at the end of the day. My major problem is GHA . My parameters are all good . Do you think the mini oxydator Would help me rid the tank of this nuisance.?

Thank you

 

If you have none it is not likely that they will appear but once you have them as Les stated they can help in getting rid of them not knowing how much of it you have it is difficult to make a generalized statement

 

Albert

[atoll]

Just found this quote when researchibg on the net.

Quote "But the human resistance to change is the real obstacle. The idea that, if something was a good idea, someone else would already be doing it. If it werent for people who had the guts to try something new, wed all still be living in caves! The real enemy is the wilful ignorance of the troglodyte" Unquote.

Think you could liken this to the Oxydator.

[albertthiel]

Just found this quote when researchibg on the net.

Quote "But the human resistance to change is the real obstacle. The idea that, if something was a good idea, someone else would already be doing it. If it werent for people who had the guts to try something new, wed all still be living in caves! The real enemy is the wilful ignorance of the troglodyte" Unquote.

Think you could liken this to the Oxydator.

 

Well I think that finally a lot of Hobbyists are starting to see the many benefits of using it Les

 

 

Albert