albertthiel Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 For some reason I have only just discovered Albert's post above for which I thank him and wholeheartedly agree with his post. Many people in the UK USA and other countries on various forums have bought Oxydator's direct from the UK as although there appears to be a US distributor they never seem to have any in stock. From the posts I have read from those who have purchased Oxydator's all have been very positive indeed. Although I have been using Oxydator's in my marine tanks for more years than I care to remember and endorse them I have no connection with Seahorse breeder who is selling them in the UK or the Oxydator company itself. The fact is they work for many people, can be seen to work and people are reporting improvements in their tanks directly attributed to the use of Oxydator's. Just to clarify .... neither of us is "selling" or trying to "sell" an Oxydator. We do not run businesses that sell those devices. All Les and I are reporting is what we have observed and keep observing and report want others post on forums that deal with Oxydators. So if you are skeptical .. try it out and then give us your feed back but shooting the messenger is not a scientific approach ... if you have not tried it you cannot discredit its benefits .. FWIW Albert Link to comment
farkwar Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Correct me if im wrong Its my understanding, from HS chemistry, decades ago, that H2O2 breaks down into H2O and O1 at the initial point of breakdown, then O3, then O2. We would see the equation as 2 H2O2> 2H2O+O2, but I don't think it ever really does this. It is these free oxygen atoms that cause H2O2 to oxidize what it oxidizes. While it is true that the final products are water and oxygen (O2), there are many steps between the beginning and the end. A floaty toy on the the top of my tank is out of the question, if they shaped it into a devil duck...maybe. Many of us here have found the many benefits of 3% and 35% to our reef systems, btw. Credit on that goes to Pico Brandon. I have long suspected, after reading the benefits of Ozone in reef systems in Albert's old books, that H2O2 would essentially work like liquid ozone. And could be dosed via an ORP meter controller. A real H2O2 dosing controller system would be cheap, quiet, unsmelly and efficient compared to Ozone dosing. Im sure that many hobbyists are out there effectively doing this right now, without a German floaty toy. I own several syringe pumps that dose down to fractions of ml per day, for example These could easily be utilized for H2O2 administration in very small measured continuous dosing. Link to comment
farkwar Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 My experiments show. Do not overdose 3%, it will wipe everything in your tank. 3% even diluted lyses zoa eating nudibranchs, the dissolve almost immediately. 3% kills and turns white GHA in three days. You must still remove the nutrients given off by its death. 3% and 35% is practically ineffective in killing bryopsis algae, even dipped full strength. At best it makes the holdfasts weaker, makes manual removal easier. 35% syringe directly dosed to aptasia will cause them to immedialy turn them into a bubbly mass of goo, but they will come back. Zoas when closed up are pretty immune to 3% and 35% when syringe dosed. They will whiten up, but return to full color in a few hours. Acros will bubble up and temporarily whiten tissue when dosed with 35%, but no tissue loss. Analogy would be your gums when using teeth whitening products. From my reading, H2O2 is very lethal to shrimps. There are no shrimp in my experiment tank. I have an acro crab, no issues. And a sally lightfoot crab, no issues(crab just died hugging an MP10). 35% will discolor some coralline algaes, turning them to pinks, red, and orange. Link to comment
atoll Posted August 2, 2014 Author Share Posted August 2, 2014 I am away for the weekend so will answer on my return sorry. Link to comment
atoll Posted August 2, 2014 Author Share Posted August 2, 2014 Correct me if im wrong Its my understanding, from HS chemistry, decades ago, that H2O2 breaks down into H2O and O1 at the initial point of breakdown, then O3, then O2. We would see the equation as 2 H2O2> 2H2O+O2, but I don't think it ever really does this. It is these free oxygen atoms that cause H2O2 to oxidize what it oxidizes. While it is true that the final products are water and oxygen (O2), there are many steps between the beginning and the end. A floaty toy on the the top of my tank is out of the question, if they shaped it into a devil duck...maybe. Many of us here have found the many benefits of 3% and 35% to our reef systems, btw. Credit on that goes to Pico Brandon. I have long suspected, after reading the benefits of Ozone in reef systems in Albert's old books, that H2O2 would essentially work like liquid ozone. And could be dosed via an ORP meter controller. A real H2O2 dosing controller system would be cheap, quiet, unsmelly and efficient compared to Ozone dosing. Im sure that many hobbyists are out there effectively doing this right now, without a German floaty toy. I own several syringe pumps that dose down to fractions of ml per day, for example These could easily be utilized for H2O2 administration in very small measured continuous dosing. Quote "A floaty toy on the the top of my tank is out of the question, if they shaped it into a devil duck...maybe." What floats on the top of the tank? Certainly not an Oxydator that's for sure. In fact you would be hard pressed to even seen any of mine. So can you explain that one? Quote " A real H2O2 dosing controller system would be cheap, quiet, unsmelly and efficient compared to Ozone dosing. Im sure that many hobbyists are out there effectively doing this right now, without a German floaty toy" Cheap Hmm well how much is a decent ORP controller with a good quality probe and an accurate dosing pump? Certainly much more than any of my Oxydator's.Add to that the reliability of the Oxydator over a controller and so very little maintenance of the Oxydator just periodically refilling it when needed. As for an Oxydator being a "floaty toy" Hmmm again it shows your lack of familiarity with Oxydator's if you think so. Shame really you should think so as Oxydator's are anything but and as so many have testified too. . Link to comment
Reefwiser Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Gee, debating an Oxydator really this product has been working for years now. It does a great job.Love the bad German website for the product. Must be from the early 90's. It's one of those simple items that just works. It has had poor distribution as it is so simple and straight forward. Les and Albert thanks for defending a low tech answer to many peoples problems. Link to comment
albertthiel Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Gee, debating an Oxydator really this product has been working for years now. It does a great job.Love the bad German website for the product. Must be from the early 90's. It's one of those simple items that just works. It has had poor distribution as it is so simple and straight forward. Les and Albert thanks for defending a low tech answer to many peoples problems. Thanks Reefwiser ... and yes indeed the Oxydator "works" as both Les and I have indeed posted repeatedly and as I have described in my Nano Reef Aquariums book (see sig) and also in the Marine Reef Aquariums Newsletters. And yes I agree their German web site is like "prehistoric" and the fact that there still is no stock available from the supposed US distributor and has not been for months and months keeps mystifying me too. Albert Correct me if im wrong Its my understanding, from HS chemistry, decades ago, that H2O2 breaks down into H2O and O1 at the initial point of breakdown, then O3, then O2. We would see the equation as 2 H2O2> 2H2O+O2, but I don't think it ever really does this. It is these free oxygen atoms that cause H2O2 to oxidize what it oxidizes. While it is true that the final products are water and oxygen (O2), there are many steps between the beginning and the end. A floaty toy on the the top of my tank is out of the question, if they shaped it into a devil duck...maybe. Many of us here have found the many benefits of 3% and 35% to our reef systems, btw. Credit on that goes to Pico Brandon. I have long suspected, after reading the benefits of Ozone in reef systems in Albert's old books, that H2O2 would essentially work like liquid ozone. And could be dosed via an ORP meter controller. A real H2O2 dosing controller system would be cheap, quiet, unsmelly and efficient compared to Ozone dosing. Im sure that many hobbyists are out there effectively doing this right now, without a German floaty toy. I own several syringe pumps that dose down to fractions of ml per day, for example These could easily be utilized for H2O2 administration in very small measured continuous dosing. The German toy as you call it is not a floaty ... it is heavy and rests permanently on the bottom of the aquarium .. you may want to go to the Sochting web site and check out what they look like and how they are weighted down ... Just saying Albert Link to comment
farkwar Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I have NO familiarity with your product, atoll. None. I was not comparing your product to a hypothetical simple dosing system for H2O2. I was comparing it to an ozone generator, carbon filter, air drying, ORP probe and controller. While I dont currently have an ORP meter or controller system set up. I do have the pumps for syringe dosing, I bought them for Zeovit dosing. Just haven't got around yet to hooking them up. They are not really that expensive, and are very accurate down to very small amounts, less than 1 ml in a 24 hour period. They take syringes up to 30ml, and as small as an insulin syringe (I havnt tested anything that small with them). I did have an ORP and controller back in the early 90s on my second reef system. Honestly, I consider ORP to be one of the necessary parameters that need monitoring; but is very prohibitive cost wise for the average reef hobbyist. Same with dissolved O2. Link to comment
farkwar Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I read "ballast" in the image in the first post. I assumed it was a ballast, as like a boat has, and floated like a boat. It is also shaped very much like pool chlorination (or bromide) pellet devices which float on the surface of a pool or spa. I retract the floaty toy comment. I would consider it resting on the bottom of my aquarium less likely to occur than floating on the water surface. I read "ballast" in the image in the first post. I assumed it was a ballast, as like a boat has, and floated like a boat. It is also shaped very much like pool chlorination (or bromide) pellet devices which float on the surface of a pool or spa. I retract the floaty toy comment. I would consider it resting on the bottom of my aquarium less likely to occur than floating on the water surface. Link to comment
albertthiel Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I have NO familiarity with your product, atoll. None. I was not comparing your product to a hypothetical simple dosing system for H2O2. I was comparing it to an ozone generator, carbon filter, air drying, ORP probe and controller. While I dont currently have an ORP meter or controller system set up. I do have the pumps for syringe dosing, I bought them for Zeovit dosing. Just haven't got around yet to hooking them up. They are not really that expensive, and are very accurate down to very small amounts, less than 1 ml in a 24 hour period. They take syringes up to 30ml, and as small as an insulin syringe (I havnt tested anything that small with them). I did have an ORP and controller back in the early 90s on my second reef system. Honestly, I consider ORP to be one of the necessary parameters that need monitoring; but is very prohibitive cost wise for the average reef hobbyist. Same with dissolved O2. You do not need any controllers when using an oxydator and no syringes either .. you might need them if you dose peroxide directly but that is not what the Oxydator is all about ... nothing needed except for the unit itself Link to comment
Grumblecakes Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Correct me if im wrong Its my understanding, from HS chemistry, decades ago, that H2O2 breaks down into H2O and O1 at the initial point of breakdown, then O3, then O2. We would see the equation as 2 H2O2> 2H2O+O2, but I don't think it ever really does this. It is these free oxygen atoms that cause H2O2 to oxidize what it oxidizes. While it is true that the final products are water and oxygen (O2), there are many steps between the beginning and the end. A floaty toy on the the top of my tank is out of the question, if they shaped it into a devil duck...maybe. Many of us here have found the many benefits of 3% and 35% to our reef systems, btw. Credit on that goes to Pico Brandon. I have long suspected, after reading the benefits of Ozone in reef systems in Albert's old books, that H2O2 would essentially work like liquid ozone. And could be dosed via an ORP meter controller. A real H2O2 dosing controller system would be cheap, quiet, unsmelly and efficient compared to Ozone dosing. Im sure that many hobbyists are out there effectively doing this right now, without a German floaty toy. I own several syringe pumps that dose down to fractions of ml per day, for example These could easily be utilized for H2O2 administration in very small measured continuous dosing. Sexy shrimp seem to be fairly tolerant of it. cleaner shrimp have always died in my experience Link to comment
Lexinverts Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hello Albert or Atoll, I have two of the A size oxydator units. They seem to be working quite well and the effect on water clarity is pretty obvious. I wonder if coralline algae getting on the ceramic would interfere with oxygen release. Do you guys scrub your oxydators every few months or do you soak them in vinegar to keep them clean? Thanks! Link to comment
albertthiel Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hello Albert or Atoll, I have two of the A size oxydator units. They seem to be working quite well and the effect on water clarity is pretty obvious. I wonder if coralline algae getting on the ceramic would interfere with oxygen release. Do you guys scrub your oxydators every few months or do you soak them in vinegar to keep them clean? Thanks! I have had coralline growing on the container on the outside but I do not remove them often. Maybe once a month or so I have not had coralline growing on the inside though on the catalyst but when I refill the container I usually just wipe the catalyst clean and no I do not soak it into vinegar. Hope that helps Albert Link to comment
Lexinverts Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I have had coralline growing on the container on the outside but I do not remove them often. Maybe once a month or so I have not had coralline growing on the inside though on the catalyst but when I refill the container I usually just wipe the catalyst clean and no I do not soak it into vinegar. Hope that helps Albert So you just scrub the coralline off with a brush, then? Thanks! Link to comment
atoll Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 No need to remove caralline algae off the ball (on the "A" version) nor the outer ceramic body. All the reaction takes place in the perspex bell/vessel.with just O2 and H2O escaping into the aquarium unless some how you spill any of the peroxide in the pot in which case the inner walls of the pot will react with some of the spillage but that shouldn't happen if you put the filler cap on properly. . Link to comment
albertthiel Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 No need to remove caralline algae off the ball (on the "A" version) nor the outer ceramic body. All the reaction takes place in the perspex bell/vessel.with just O2 and H2O escaping into the aquarium unless some how you spill any of the peroxide in the pot in which case the inner walls of the pot will react with some of the spillage but that shouldn't happen if you put the filler cap on properly. . Yes indeed ... as Les says /... Albert Link to comment
atoll Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thank you! Glad its working for you as it should of course. The benefits are there for you to see and some you won't necessarily see but it will be working in the background non the less. Link to comment
Lexinverts Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Thanks. Here's a picture of it in the tank. That is an MP-10 next to it for size reference. Link to comment
Ivery Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 What would this do to a seahorse tank with lots of macros? Link to comment
atoll Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Lots if people use Oxydators in seahorse tanks. It would do exactly the same as in most tanks improve the water quality. Link to comment
albertthiel Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Lots if people use Oxydators in seahorse tanks. It would do exactly the same as in most tanks improve the water quality. Yes indeed as Les says ... in fact one of the resellers in the UK is a seahorse breeder Albert Link to comment
Ivery Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 But would it affect 5 he macros in anyway? Link to comment
albertthiel Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 But would it affect 5 he macros in anyway? I do not understand the question ... can you clarify it please Albert Link to comment
atoll Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 But would it affect 5 he macros in anyway? Do you mean would an Oxydator somehow affect micro or perhaps macro algae? Link to comment
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