Going through another cycle, darn it!

[SaltyMist]

So I have had this tank running fine for a couple of months now, it's a 20 gallon high tank, and it's inhabitants are:

 

3 scarlet hermit crabs

1 Green brittle star

1 chocolate chip star

5 large algae snails (thats what they call them at the lfs and they were just added yesterday)

1 anemone crab

1 emerald crab

 

The tank had 3 puffer fish in it until saturday night when they were removed to give to a guy at the LFS to take home to his tanks.

 

Now on sunday I introduced a scooter blenny, did fine until about 30 minutes ago, then he spasmed a couple of times and expired.

 

I added a clown fish yesterday (I figured that if the tank could sustain the 3 puffers, then my system is in good order, and always has checked out with 0 amonia, 0 nitrites and 10 to 30 nitrates).

 

So heeding the advice of my LFS last time I had a fish almost die, I did a 5 gallon water change but took the tests before hand.

 

Amonia anywhere from .25 to .75

Nitrites 0.3

Nitrates 20 to 50!

 

So, I did the water change right now (did one last week too of 5 gallons as I usually do), and I'll test again later today to see if the water change has brought down the levels any.

 

I've got another 5 gallons of saltwater sitting in my car, so I could do another 5 gallon change today, but whats the concensus on that?

 

Also the other things that changed were that I had to remove 90% of my liverock to get the puffers out, but the rock was only kept out of water for about 2 to 5 seconds when they were dunked into a rubbermaid container with water from the tank, so I dont think that would start a new cycle by itself. So Im trying to figure out what I could have done to cause this cycle again.

 

My tests have always been good even with the 3 messy puffers in the tank, with 0amonia / 0 nitrites /10 to 30ppm nitrates

 

I think the clown should make it through a cycle (which is hopefully small), since the LFS said clowns can usually make it through a cycle, but I am rather concerned about the snails, crabs and starfish.

 

Anything else I can do at this point? Should I pour some amquel or some other amonia trapper in to at least get the amonia down to 0, or leave it alone and do another 5 gallon water change today, or what?

 

Thanks,

[NanoAmyDee]

An additional water change never hurts. It just completely dilutes any problem compunds you might have.

 

It is my understanding that removing rock even for a second will cause sponges and other life forms to expire, so the die off won't be as great, but it will happen. The cycle just won't be as big as usuall.

 

Do you have a med or quarantine tank available? If so you should mix up/buy some water for your fish. Get him out of there so he won't get affected by the cycle. Also, moving the rock work to get the puffers might have stirred up some gunk and the sand bed to help create a cycle as well.

 

Hope it clears up soon! I am about to move and am scared to death at what might happen with the tank.

[SaltyMist]

I only have a rubbermaid quarantine tank for my freshwater inhabitants that is used for quarantine and medicating any freshwater fish. Im dreading the thought of having to go out and get another 10 gallon tank, filter, light etc to do this, but maybe thats the best way of dealing with the situation now at hand.

 

 

 

What Im wondering if it would have been more effective to do the whole 10 gallon water change at the same time, since it seems to me that it would have pulled out more of the nasty water, instead of doing 5 gallons now, then waiting and doing 5 gallons more, or is it the same thing? (just so I know for future reference).

 

Also I dont think my liverock has a whole lot of life in it besides the coraline algae, since I have yet to see any feather dusters and only had like 2 small polyps that I think the puffers probably ate at some point in time. But yeah, I can imagine that there is life that I can't see and that it may have been affected by the short time out of the tank.

 

When I move in Sept of this year, Im just taking back the livestock in my tanks to the LFS and give it to him, then just rubbermaid the rock and livesand and setup the tank in the new house (cause it's a 2 hour drive from where I live now), then let it cycle again. I hate being a fish killer even though I consider myself a fisherman.

[NanoAmyDee]

If you change all of the water won't that expose the LR again to air? I think the rule is if you do 4 water changes of half the water you have eesentially gotten all of the bad water out, or at least diulted it enough to make it a non-issue. I may be totally wrong though. I am sure someone has the proper process.

 

Just out of curiosity, did you know the choco chip is not reef safe? They are very cool, and I want to get one for the FOWLR tank we'll setup soon, but if you are going to put in corals you may want to get rid of it. Just a tip.

[Hwarang]

Before I knew about sponges hating air I exposed mine to air when taking them out of the plastic bag and stuff ... they were no worse for it ... so, I guess it doesn't make sponges instantly keel over ... but obviously it can't be good for it.

[SaltyMist]

Yeah, I knew that before I introduced the choc chip star, but at the time it was just going to be a fowlr (or a POWLR - Puffer only with liverock), but I need something more relaxing to look at then puffers darting about and running up and down the height of the tank, so found a home for them. The Choc chip star will be coming out when ever I go down to get my first coral, I'll take him into a store thats about 30 minutes away since they will give me a credit for him (though since they sell choc chip stars for like $5.00, they'll probably give me like $1.00 for him).

 

I thought I got a piece of liverock that had a visible sponge on it once, but it turned out to be just some skelleton of some type of coral, and never changed colors or did anything, it's still sitting on the liverock in my JBJ tank.

 

Most of the local liverock that I get here in my LFS dont have the types of life that I read others get by online purchases, they are mostly just chunks of rock, some with coralline algae growth, some with nothing visible on them.

 

On my JBJ, just the other day I did notice a couple mini feather dusters appear, but thats been about it, since starting it a couple months ago.

 

I will say this though, since removing the puffers, the other inhabitants, (crabs, snails, starfish) came right back to life, scurrying around here and there, whereas with the puffers in the tank, everyone pretty much hid out of site.

[NanoAmyDee]

You know first hand how dirty puffers can be. Probably stiring all that crap up caused some stuff to get out of wack. Try blowing and syphoning off the rocks and substrate. Do this a lot as well as the water change. This should help things get back to normal.

[SaltyMist]

Yeah I just tried blowing off the rocks after the puffers were out of the tank, and before introducing the scooter to the tank a day later, and it blew stuff all over the place, but not like any large chunks of food or anything. If anything looked more like sand in the tank.

 

I think though what I will do in the future is to turkey baster just one section of liverock right before doing my water change each week, and alternate sections every 2 or 3 weeks to make sure that as little amount of food as possible is sitting caught in the crevices of the liverock.

 

I should also mention that about 2 weeks ago I introduced 10lbs of livesand (the kind you buy in petco in the bags) to this tank since I only had about 1/4" of livesand in the tank if you were to distribute it evenly, and maybe a couple places in the tank that would have like 1/2" or so, but that also means quite a few places that had no sand covering on the bottom since the current blew the original livesand around to form peaks and valleys.

 

But the puffs showed no abnormal signs of distress and all was fine, but Im now wondering if by covering up the original sandbed (even though it was only like a quarter inch) could have eventually brought this on. Im just thinking of possibilities, but it seems to me that with the livesand issue, that the liverock would have been harboring enough beneficial bacteria that covering up such a shallow dept of sand wouldnt have done this, but then again it could have and it could have been building up and building up for the past two weeks, and finally just exploded so to speak.