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Par38 growth


milk

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SO I've never had a tank growout more than a year so far since the couple of years I've been in the hobby ... I've been through 4 tanks and finally found one that I like .. I've also only used LEDs for the most part.

 

I have a single nanotuners Par38 12K (either 60 or 40 degree optics, wasn't clear from the gentleman I bought it from) at exactly 30" from the sandbed. The bulb covers a spread that is perfect for the single rock I have in the tank .. leaves a shadier area for such fitted coral..

 

 

I've had the light for about 2 months now, and although most of the softies and LPS open up to it.. I understand that theres a book worth of other factors, but haven't really seen too much growth, or any at all (including duncans, zoas, acropora, softies). They open up, I spot feed cyclopeeze, rod's food and phyto on a regular schedule (about twice a week). I don't have that many pieces of coral.. about 9 I believe.. none are that big.. SPS tends to brown out as well

 

I have an mp10 set at at moderate enough flow so that everything sways, but its not too violent or too soft.

 

I have a 9 gallon shallow display (ada 60-f) with a 20 gallon sump and an algae scrubber that I clean once a week. Parameters are nearly perfect using API... salinity is constant at 1.025 with an auto top off... kent salt, use my own ro/di with a TDS reading 0.

 

bimonthly water changes although I wonder how necessary it is since the algae scrubber is very efficient and I don't have that high of a coral load.. although replacing trace elements could possibly be a factor (maybe should bump it up to weekly water changes..)

 

Anyways - I don't know what going on here - livestock is hermits, clown, tailspot blenny, some turbos basically.

 

I haven't really come across other threads that have described the growth under par38s comparable to some other fixtures ( halides, t5s or some of the larger LED fixtures that have far more than 20 watts) that get incredible growth (not knocking LEDs, just wondering about this particular one).

 

Wondering if I should contemplate switching fixtures or getting another Par38.. or if I'm doing something else wrong?

 

Not trying to stir anything up here, just trying to help my reef! and answer a question I've (and Pak too!) been wondering (your first mistake is all that scrubber noise)

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@milk: Hi there pal. I personally don't keep SPS other than a bird nest that we got by mistake. Mainly softies, zoas and mushrooms. I personally learned that the coral growth is related not only to water parameters but also photoperiods, coral placements, water circulation and as you mention, water maintenance. It seems that you are doing the right think as for circulation and feeding. Do you have a protein skimmer? media reactors? refugium?. And, without starting a conflict situation here with a reef member, in my opinion you are ok with your water change schedule hence you change 10%-25% everytime. Please provide mor info about equipment that you have and photoperiod. Regards, Frank.

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@milk: Hi there pal. I personally don't keep SPS other than a bird nest that we got by mistake. Mainly softies, zoas and mushrooms. I personally learned that the coral growth is related not only to water parameters but also photoperiods, coral placements, water circulation and as you mention, water maintenance. It seems that you are doing the right think as for circulation and feeding. Do you have a protein skimmer? media reactors? refugium?. And, without starting a conflict situation here with a reef member, in my opinion you are ok with your water change schedule hence you change 10%-25% everytime. Please provide mor info about equipment that you have and photoperiod. Regards, Frank.

thanks

11.5 hour photoperiod - no skimmer or media reactors, old school but just an algae scrubber that keeps my parameters great and a 20 gallon sump with about 30 lbs of LR, a ball of chaeto and a few other macros.

 

I keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible,

 

I suppose there might be an impatient me speaking here; but I'm wondering how some of us get noticeable growth in just a month or two

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thanks

11.5 hour photoperiod - no skimmer or media reactors, old school but just an algae scrubber that keeps my parameters great and a 20 gallon sump with about 30 lbs of LR, a ball of chaeto and a few other macros.

 

I keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible,

 

I suppose there might be an impatient me speaking here; but I'm wondering how some of us get noticeable growth in just a month or two

 

Your photoperiod is ok. Let me ask you one thing, how you checked for phosphates? if so, please post readings. Do you have to much of fluctuation in terms of temperature?. I try to pinpoint the problem since you say that have such a slow growth in your tank. Do you have a collection of timeline pics of your tank? if so, can you post them to compare?. Thanks. Frank.

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Okay, I think I can give you some insight here. I had 2 par38s on my ADA tank that was up for over a year (which, by the way, is not a very long time). I had mostly sps and I had good growth. My Idaho Grape Monti Cap grew about an inch every month and my Milliporas grew about half of that. I did not dose, and for the second half of this tank's life I didn't even do many water changes so that probably slowed growth. I did find that softies and zoas did not seem to do well in that tank though, I could never get much growth there.

 

Your tank is relatively new and it is very sterile. You have to give your system time to mature. LEDs can grow corals but in my experience the best growth is in well established tanks. Make sure you have enough live rock and keep up with what you're doing. I'm going to bet that things will take off in a few months.

 

You could try lowering your light to see if that makes a difference.

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Your photoperiod is ok. Let me ask you one thing, how you checked for phosphates? if so, please post readings. Do you have to much of fluctuation in terms of temperature?. I try to pinpoint the problem since you say that have such a slow growth in your tank. Do you have a collection of timeline pics of your tank? if so, can you post them to compare?. Thanks. Frank.

 

no timeline pics really - I usually photograph new specimens in the tank.. but as I said.. I'm probably just jumping to conclusions here and being an impatient reefer. My temp is usually between 79 and 81... Well, lets just see how it goes.. I really just wanted to hear feedback on the par38s.. but figured I might as well post about my tank specifically to see how it measured up.. I haven't done this in some time...

 

I appreciate the feedback though - I'll maybe try to restrain myself until I ask the same question next year lol.. I feel like I'm in an ent society haha

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It sounds like your doing everything right

"although replacing trace elements could possibly be a factor (maybe should bump it up to weekly water changes..)"

^^try this

 

I change 20% every Sunday without fail

I ran my tank with one boostled par 30 bulb for 4 months and saw noticeable growth on all corals especially SPS

 

the tank is long it wouldn't hurt to get another bulb but thats not why they are not growing/ SPS is browning out

Pak expressed he had a similar issues - its an odd problem you two are having

 

 

Where are you getting your water from ?

 

"Your tank is relatively new and it is very sterile. You have to give your system time to mature. LEDs can grow corals but in my experience the best growth is in well established tanks."

^^ This is true

but how old is the tank?

2 months you should have seen something already and they shouldn't be turning brown

 

how high are the lights right now above the tank?

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i have gu10 leds do 5g water change every 3rd month (55gallon tank) top off evap with RODI water (maybe every 5th or 6th time i will add some biocalcium to the rodi water before adding it to the tank. I have a koralia 750 on one side and a 1050 on the other side. i've never checked cal or alk, nitrites and nitrates are 0 and ammonia is 0 too

 

i feed cyclopeeze every day (one cube)

 

blues come on at 7am and turn off at 11pm

whites come on at 8am and are off at 10pm

 

here is a thread showing growth from a few months time

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...20&start=20

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One par 38 should with 40 degree lenses @ 30" above the sand bed will cover a circle of radius 11" with a relatively low Par values. If i remember what the Evilcc said about his and other par 38's (probably with the exception of the Orphek) correctly, it is that they cover about a 12" DIAMETER circle with adequate par levels to grow SPS and everything else. Therefore, the height recommended would usually be around 20" from sand bed to see appropriate Par levels. This thread is where i got the 12" diameter figure and simple trig gives me the height recommendation.

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It sounds like your doing everything right

"although replacing trace elements could possibly be a factor (maybe should bump it up to weekly water changes..)"

^^try this

 

I change 20% every Sunday without fail

I ran my tank with one boostled par 30 bulb for 4 months and saw noticeable growth on all corals especially SPS

 

the tank is long it wouldn't hurt to get another bulb but thats not why they are not growing/ SPS is browning out

Pak expressed he had a similar issues - its an odd problem you two are having

 

 

Where are you getting your water from ?

 

"Your tank is relatively new and it is very sterile. You have to give your system time to mature. LEDs can grow corals but in my experience the best growth is in well established tanks."

^^ This is true

but how old is the tank?

2 months you should have seen something already and they shouldn't be turning brown

 

how high are the lights right now above the tank?

 

 

I get my water from my ro/di unit as mentioned above that has a tds meter on it.. its at 0 (filters just changed).

 

I'm digging the sterile hypothesis - almost everything I have in the tank came from established tanks (water, rock).. I guess not the actual rubbermaid sump itself or the glass tank.. but biology on the microscopic scale might make a difference when it has colonized every available surface area.. I've always wondered about this.

 

 

Yeah - probably going to do weekly water changes now

 

The lights are 30".. it covers the area where I have placed coral perfectly. I guess I'll try lowering the light - although I might sell the light and buy a different LED fixture, HAHA. I could probably sell it for 60 and buy some other boujie light -

 

This guy seems to be having a good time with them though - http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...8330&st=200

 

 

i have gu10 leds do 5g water change every 3rd month (55gallon tank) top off evap with RODI water (maybe every 5th or 6th time i will add some biocalcium to the rodi water before adding it to the tank. I have a koralia 750 on one side and a 1050 on the other side. i've never checked cal or alk, nitrites and nitrates are 0 and ammonia is 0 too

 

i feed cyclopeeze every day (one cube)

 

blues come on at 7am and turn off at 11pm

whites come on at 8am and are off at 10pm

 

here is a thread showing growth from a few months time

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...20&start=20

 

Wow wow - looks awesome - I might just need to slap another Par38 over the top of this tank here to see some coral do its thing

 

 

I have OK growth my my Par 38's, not ur exact ones though...

 

 

How high are your lights my friend?

 

One par 38 should with 40 degree lenses @ 30" above the sand bed will cover a circle of radius 11" with a relatively low Par values. If i remember what the Evilcc said about his and other par 38's (probably with the exception of the Orphek) correctly, it is that they cover about a 12" DIAMETER circle with adequate par levels to grow SPS and everything else. Therefore, the height recommended would usually be around 20" from sand bed to see appropriate Par levels. This thread is where i got the 12" diameter figure and simple trig gives me the height recommendation.

 

Hey thanks brother dikta - I will try to gradual lower my light over the next 2 weeks (any thought about that PM?)

 

 

mh>led for sps growth, maybe not color

 

NO DUDE!

 

water changes water changes water changes into coral

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my tank is growing greatly during the past 4-5 months on my par38 bulb. My bulb is about 7-8" from the top of the water line.

 

I am getting tons of growth from my zoa and polyps. ranging from 5-7 to over a dozen new polyps.

 

My Yuma has went from 1 nickel size to about 2-2.5inches. Also another speckle, very very small. it was basically a dot on a small piece of rubble, that's grown to about 1.5 inches. and a 3rd has spawned which is about 1inch in diameter.

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I get my water from my ro/di unit as mentioned above that has a tds meter on it.. its at 0 (filters just changed).

 

I'm digging the sterile hypothesis - almost everything I have in the tank came from established tanks (water, rock).. I guess not the actual rubbermaid sump itself or the glass tank.. but biology on the microscopic scale might make a difference when it has colonized every available surface area.. I've always wondered about this.

 

 

Yeah - probably going to do weekly water changes now

 

The lights are 30".. it covers the area where I have placed coral perfectly. I guess I'll try lowering the light - although I might sell the light and buy a different LED fixture, HAHA. I could probably sell it for 60 and buy some other boujie light -

 

This guy seems to be having a good time with them though - http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...8330&st=200

 

 

 

 

Wow wow - looks awesome - I might just need to slap another Par38 over the top of this tank here to see some coral do its thing

 

 

 

 

 

How high are your lights my friend?

 

 

 

Hey thanks brother dikta - I will try to gradual lower my light over the next 2 weeks (any thought about that PM?)

 

 

 

 

NO DUDE!

 

water changes water changes water changes into coral

 

 

WHAT DUDE?!

 

 

the best sps tanks ive ever read about or seen in person have all be 5 to 10 percent water changes weekly. there are a lot of variables though.

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my tank is growing greatly during the past 4-5 months on my par38 bulb. My bulb is about 7-8" from the top of the water line.

 

I am getting tons of growth from my zoa and polyps. ranging from 5-7 to over a dozen new polyps.

 

My Yuma has went from 1 nickel size to about 2-2.5inches. Also another speckle, very very small. it was basically a dot on a small piece of rubble, that's grown to about 1.5 inches. and a 3rd has spawned which is about 1inch in diameter.

 

wow - how high are the lights from the sandbed?

 

WHAT DUDE?!

 

 

the best sps tanks ive ever read about or seen in person have all be 5 to 10 percent water changes weekly. there are a lot of variables though.

 

 

YEAH - I've heard the same..

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If you want to sell the bulb let me know I'll paypal you right away lol

My tank is 10'' tall and I have the Rapid Bulb about 16'' away from the top of the water

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If you want to sell the bulb let me know I'll paypal you right away lol

My tank is 10'' tall and I have the Rapid Bulb about 16'' away from the top of the water

 

I'm thinking about picking up another bulb actually - I assume you've had good growth with the par LEDs, no? ( A big fan of your tank btw... the aquascape is inspiring)

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Thats awesome to hear.. My tank looked really cool today and promising.. Just gotta stop sticking my hands in there and watch em grow! prolly going to pick up another par38...

roughly 20-21" from my sandbed. I have 60* optics.
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I'm thinking about picking up another bulb actually - I assume you've had good growth with the par LEDs, no? ( A big fan of your tank btw... the aquascape is inspiring)

 

yea growth has been intense

You have a great bulb IMO its too far maybe slowly move it down

thanks for the compliments

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mh>led for sps growth, maybe not color

 

 

Not true. Way too vague of a statement. That's like saying motorcycles are faster than cars. It depends 100% on the equipment and the person using it.

 

 

I'll grant you that MH has a long, successful track record. But I've seen enough tanks that are LED-driven with SPS that are just flat out awesome with growth that's just as good or better than halides.

 

See this thread for example. He changed from halides to DIY LEDs (white Crees and blue "bridgelux") and has had wonderful growth for 10+ months of LED-only, and according to him, it's increased nicely from when it was halides (twin 250w Radiums)

 

This guy is a good friend of mine, I've seen his tank's growth and progression over the past year and it's nuts.

http://www.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/memb...ems-90g-39.html

 

Particularly this pic on 4-2011:

IMG_7375.jpg

 

Then this one on Dec 2011, notice a good number of SPS that are new (not in prev pic) but very well encrusted and branching out from small frags:

IMG_8746.jpg

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Not true. Way too vague of a statement. That's like saying motorcycles are faster than cars. It depends 100% on the equipment and the person using it.

 

I'll grant you that MH has a long, successful track record. But I've seen enough tanks that are LED-driven with SPS that are just flat out awesome with growth that's just as good or better than halides.

 

See this thread for example. He changed from halides to DIY LEDs (white Crees and blue "bridgelux") and has had wonderful growth for 10+ months of LED-only, and according to him, it's increased nicely from when it was halides (twin 250w Radiums)

 

This guy is a good friend of mine, I've seen his tank's growth and progression over the past year and it's nuts.

http://www.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/memb...ems-90g-39.html

 

Particularly this pic on 4-2011:

IMG_7375.jpg

 

Then this one on Dec 2011, notice a good number of SPS that are new (not in prev pic) but very well encrusted and branching out from small frags:

IMG_8746.jpg

 

Technically, most motorcycles are faster than most cars. At least in acceleration. Back on topic though.

 

I've had ok growth. I have a birdsnest frag that has branched out quite well. However, it's bleached from the par38's I have. That's my fault though as I moved it to a different location in hopes that it would color up more. Zoas have never grown well for me under leds. Not sure if it's too much light, or too nutrient deficient. Other frags of SPS have either browned out or just completely died. It's been a very frustrating experience for me. My frogspawn has grown substantially since I've had it, however, I've had it since the days I used metal halides. My blue xenia has done well, but the color is slightly faded. Again, I attribute that to the amount of light from the Par38s.

 

Up until the last couple weeks, I've fed my tank pretty sparingly. Now that I have a scooter blenny, I'm trying to feed every day to every other day. This goes for the corals too. I know this will quickly cause a nutrient build-up, but I'm pretty sure I can keep up with it with water changes.

 

I've gone through phases of doing weekly water changes to letting them go to every 2-3 weeks. Nothing seems to make any difference. I've also run chemi-pure elite, filter floss, carbon. Nothing. I see a lot of tanks that look absolutely stunning and I know that I'm keeping up with them in terms of water params, so it's completely baffling to me why I have such a hard time getting growth/color from some of my corals.

 

I've been really contemplating going back to MH or trying T5's lately. I want to ditch my par38's mainly because I'm tired of the spotlight look, not to mention there really isn't a simple, sleek mounting solution for them. I have thought about doing an aquastyles kit, but really dislike how a DIY LED setup looks. I miss my phoenix 14k look, but am concerned about the amount of heat it will put into a tank that is less than 8" tall.

 

I love this hobby, but it really can be frustrating trying to find the right solution.

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Technically, most motorcycles are faster than most cars. At least in acceleration. Back on topic though.

 

I've had ok growth. I have a birdsnest frag that has branched out quite well. However, it's bleached from the par38's I have. That's my fault though as I moved it to a different location in hopes that it would color up more. Zoas have never grown well for me under leds. Not sure if it's too much light, or too nutrient deficient. Other frags of SPS have either browned out or just completely died. It's been a very frustrating experience for me. My frogspawn has grown substantially since I've had it, however, I've had it since the days I used metal halides. My blue xenia has done well, but the color is slightly faded. Again, I attribute that to the amount of light from the Par38s.

 

Up until the last couple weeks, I've fed my tank pretty sparingly. Now that I have a scooter blenny, I'm trying to feed every day to every other day. This goes for the corals too. I know this will quickly cause a nutrient build-up, but I'm pretty sure I can keep up with it with water changes.

 

I've gone through phases of doing weekly water changes to letting them go to every 2-3 weeks. Nothing seems to make any difference. I've also run chemi-pure elite, filter floss, carbon. Nothing. I see a lot of tanks that look absolutely stunning and I know that I'm keeping up with them in terms of water params, so it's completely baffling to me why I have such a hard time getting growth/color from some of my corals.

 

I've been really contemplating going back to MH or trying T5's lately. I want to ditch my par38's mainly because I'm tired of the spotlight look, not to mention there really isn't a simple, sleek mounting solution for them. I have thought about doing an aquastyles kit, but really dislike how a DIY LED setup looks. I miss my phoenix 14k look, but am concerned about the amount of heat it will put into a tank that is less than 8" tall.

 

I love this hobby, but it really can be frustrating trying to find the right solution.

 

I'm not too invested in the research with LEDs.. but I've seen a few 60 or so watt LED pendents over some softy tanks and its astonishing how often they have to frag and trim with the growth..

 

I'm thinking its just tank maturation.. I'm going to get another bulb and get this show on the road.

 

Pak - fortunately I have a nice size sump as well as an efficient algae scrubber that allows me to feed often (2-3 times a day depending on my schedule). Usually its with phyto, rod's food and cyclopeeze

 

There is so much nutrition in my tank, I wonder if its too much at times. The scrubber handles it though, and my parameters stay about as good as you can get.

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Even with my heavy feedings these past few days, my phosphate test showed tonight a big whopping 0. So I dunno. Granted I've only had this tank up for 7 months, most of these corals/rocks have been part of my overall tank experience since I started 3 years ago. So while I would love to point the blame at tank maturity, I really can't.

 

I'm not that invested in LEDs either, and I'm certainly not giving up on them yet, I just don't think the Par38s are working out for me the way I hoped they would. Maybe I'll try an aquastyles kit. For $70, I can't really go wrong.

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