Mushrooms Gone

[jferebee]

I've been looking on this site for something that deals with this situation but I don't see it so here's my first post and question. My 12G is 6 weeks old and has a Aquaclear 200, Jager 50W, Coralife 65W PC, LR, LS, and clean up crew. Corals include yellow, button and colony. Also green, pink and blue star polyps. Only 2 fish. Yellow Wrasse and false percula. 1.023, ph 8.2, nitrite 0, Am 0, Nitrate 10, kh 10.8, calcium 460. This seems to be pretty basic tank with normal conditions. I recently introduced a rock with 8 small green mushrooms. After 3 days they were incased in a white, semi clear mucus looking covering. I thought at first they might be reproducing but after reading several posts that didn't seem to be what was happening. Bottom line the shroons just died. The rock is bare and there is nothing left. Everything is the tank is normal and doing very well. This is quite frustrating because I have gone slow and added only "easy" beginner stuff. So anyone that has experienced this or has any ideas please let me know.

[divemasterdave]

What's up,

I see that all the shrooms died. I wonder if you e-shop or lfs. I go in my lfs all the time and see the corals and how they are doing since they came in. I see alot of shrooms just up and die off after a week or so of being normal. I would like to know why, and all my lfs can say is "that happens some times" This hobby is one that requires us to accept loss on occasion. I hope you will not give up.

[jferebee]

DiveMaster, thanks for the post. We talked private a few weeks ago. No, I'm not giving up. You're the one that advised to go slow and read and learn. This is my first setback and most likely not the last. Just sorry I didn't learn about reef hobby years ago - fascinating!

[skipp]

Hello,

This is my first post. I have been looking in the forums for some time now. Anyway, I too have a mushroom problem. I have a 5.5 gal tank that has about 7# live rock. The only thing I have had in it is a clown and a couple of blue leg crabs. the tank has been up for over 6 months and I have had no problems. I use DI water and my param are where they should be. I bought a small rock with several shrooms on it. They looked good in the lfs. When put in my tank, all of them kind of balled up. After about 5 weeks now, all are gone except 4 there were 14 to start with. and those don't look like the ones I see in pictures. Mine never extend. They look a little melted, kinda like blobs. I just got one bigger mushroom, and a small group of zoo's both were attached to the gravel at the lfs. Had both for about a week. The shroom is wrinkled up and never extends and the zoo's (about 12) have never come out. Anyone have any sugestions? I can post pictures if anyone would like. I can't get anything to do well in the tank and am about ready to give up.

 

Thanks,

Skipp

[Soapboxcharlie]

Couple of thoughts 1st do you add iodine on a regular basis ?

Are you feeding your shrooms? They thrive on Cyclops Eze.

[jferebee]

You can see from my post that I'm still looking for answers about mushrooms. This I have observed, some of them don't extend unless they are "looking for light". If they're laying flat that's pretty good. Give the zoo's a little time. I've had some that opened right away and others took a few days to open. They like light and a little flow. What kind of light to you have and where did you place them in the tank?

[skipp]

Soapbox, I am a noob and call me stupid. I have been dosing iodine. After I started dosing, I started getting a green algea bloom. I didn't know that you have to feed the mushrooms. I thought they get food from the water column. How do you target feed them?

jferebee, the zoo's have been in for just over a week. I don't have great light. I have 2 (NO) floresents. 1 coralife 50/50 @15 watts and 1 coralife 10k @14 watts. I know that isn't great, but, I don't want to put anything in the tank but srooms and zoos. The zoos are in the bottom of the tank on the shell. I had them high on the rocks, but, they kept blowing off and getting knocked around by the hermits. I just figured I would let them land where they like and se what they do.

Also, do the zoos need to be fed also?

Thanks both of you for your replys.

[pat_man_ta]

What kind of water are you using?

[skipp]

Distilled.

[Tempest]

First off, stop dosing the iodine. Unless you are regularly testing your water and it is iodine deficient you should NOT add iodine. It can be poisonous if the concentration is too high and is lethal to corals and other inverts like shrimp and crabs.

 

I've never fed my mushrooms anything. I do add phyto, Coral Acccel, Reef Vital and Selcon to the tank so maybe its getting food from the water column.

 

I may have missed it, but I didn't see anything about how you acclimated the mushrooms to the tank. I use a drip for at least 90 minutes before putting any corals in the display tank. Acclimation may have been part of the problem.

[MillerLite]

I agree with tempest. I dont ever dose with iodine since I simply am a lazy bastard and dont feel like testing one more parameter in the tank. I simply use weekly religous water changes to keep the iodine up. All my shrooms looking well. Also, what kind of light do you have? They often like to be away from the light a bit as well...not a very high light requirement for shrooms. Also, I would consider that if your shrooms and your polyps are not opening up, there might be something wrong with your water...unrelated to any parameter that you can check. Have you dosed with anything else? Have you tried changing distlled water to see if you have any better result. There were quite a few threads out there about some types of dislled water contains copper from the pipes in the distillation equipment. Is there any chance any kind of cleaning detergent or lotion from your hands is escaping to the water. SOmetimes its a very simple fix. Try a large water change with a different water, presumably from the LFS and see if that helps. I use pre-mixed Catalina water now (PETCO) and everything seems to be doing better. Its a bit expensive but I hate to mix. I still test every batch however and add the necessary supplements. Good luck!

[enchie]

I was on my way out to a BBQ one Saturday morning. Saturday's are the days I test the water, do water changes, dose, etc. My ammonia was a tad over 0. Not enough to merrit a water change, plus I was in a hurry.

I grabbed an orange bottle of Amquel? (it says Marine safe) The stuff that you use to remove ammonia / chlorine from water. Too lazy to measure out the correct dossage I squirted MANY squirts in my 125 gallon.

Within 1 minute my Xenia closed & my mushrooms started to balloon up & get all wrinkled.

Since I was on my way out & didn't have any R/O or salt water on hand I only did a 5-8 gallon water change.

I came home to find my Xenia melting away & my mushrooms melting & ballooning up. I went to the LFS, did a large water change over the next few days.

To make a long story short, Xenia melted away to nothing & my shrooms almost all melted away. The shrooms came back about a month later.

Just wondering if you dosed your tank with this stuff recently.

[skipp]

Miller, I haven't put anything else in the tank. I have stopped dosing anything I do 1 gal water changes every week. Top off with Distilled. I have tried a couple of different brands. Mostly Walmart and Foodlion. There was no change. I have one shroom tha is looking better. Still not open the way I see all the pictures of them. I found a tiny new one starting to grow close by. The lights are 2 (NO) floresents. 1 coralife 50/50 @15 watts and 1 coralife 10k @14 watts. Like I said, not great, but, I onylwant shrooms and a couple of zoo's. The Zoo's I got still haven't opened up at all. It looks like they are being overgrown by the ugly film algea and bright green algea that I can't get rid of. My nirates seem to creep up. I go from 0 to 30 after a water change. Can't do anything to get it to stay down. There is nowhere around here for me to buy premixed water. There is only 1 saltwater pet store around and they told me NOT to do a 5.5 reef tank. I think I have made every mistake that can be made, but, I'm trying really hard and the algea is discouraging. That along with me not being able to keep anything alive but a clown flat sucks.

enchie, I don't use anything for ammonia. It stays at 0 Everything is good but Nitrates. On an up note, I just found out the last piece of rock that I got (about 3" round) Is a clam. No lie, the whole thing opened up last night. Don't clams take up nitrates in the system. Thanks for all the suggestions. My pc has been down and I just got back online.

[MillerLite]

Hi Skipp (&jferebee), try not to be so hard on yourself. Consider it a learning experience with a somewhat steep learning curve. Just about everyone here on this board, definitely including myself, have made many mistakes...even doing things that someone more experience may recommend you not to do. If we always listened to all of the advice that we hear in this hobby, I doubt that there would be a nano-reef.com forum for you to search or any new discoveries. Sometimes people seem to want you to do things the way would do them. Not too many people at LFS like the nano-reef idea. I would recommend you to take all of the suggestions as theories and not as obvious fact. What may work for one, may not work for another, or you may have a better idea. You can only try and learn. With that said, there are a couple things I would do. Again these are just suggestions....

 

1) What kind of salt are you using? The preferred brand on this site apparently is instant ocean or reef crystals. You may wish to consider changing salt. Dont buy the small box of salt. Instead go with the 50 gallon bags. I found there to be more consistancy and less problems with the larger bags. What is the salinity in your tank? Do you have a refractometer or hydrometer? What is the temperature of your tank water? Does it fluxuate much? Where is your tank located in your house? by a window?

 

2) I think the lights should be adequate for shrooms and some zoos. I have a 32W pc smartlamp retrofit that I fit to my 7 gallon minibow. Not familiar with the NO lights, but consider purchasing new lights. Depending on your tank, I would even go bigger than 32W pc if you can. Why limit yourself in the beginning? The retrofits appear reasonably priced.

 

3) I would take control of where you are placing your zoos and shrooms. What kind of water flow do you have? You mention the zoos blow off, how are you attaching the zoos and shrooms to the rocks. Try moving the shrooms and zoos around. With the lower wattage light and depending on the size of your tank, I would try different locations and depths to see what the inverts prefer. Surprisingly, my ricordea like to be further down in the tank and in lower flow ("All Mushrooms extend dramatically when placed in low current areas of the tank."-from nano-reef.com).

 

4) What kind of water do you use for water changes? Hopefully it is distilled. Dont use tapwater if possible. It sounds like you may have a phosphate/nitrate problem. The uncontrollable algae growth is a good indicator of this. Look into some of the phosphate sponges or phosguard substrates. Do you have a skimmer? This can help with nitrates. You also may wish to consider starting a refugium with macroalgae to take up nitrates. What kind of substrate/gravel do you have? Sand or aragonite gravel? Sometime aragonite gravel can be a nitrate sink.

 

5) Last but not least, a question about the clam. Have you tried to identify the clam? How long have you had him? May not be a good sign if he is opening up. Usually as with the scallops, an open clam usually indicates a stressed or dying/dead invert. He may be part of your problem. I would suggest removing him and trying to smell him to see if he is rotting. Is he responsive to touch? Never buy an open clam from the store. They open when you cook them, not when they are alive and doing well.

 

Sorry this is so long. I feel empathy for your reef problems and I hope that this information helps. COntinue posting your questions or answer to my questions if you wish. People here are pretty good at answering questions and are generally quite helpful. Good luck!

 

Terry

[jferebee]

Thanks for your questions and suggestions. I'll try to respond.

I'm buying water from the LFS and have since the beginning. It's easier and consistent. I use a hydrometer and it has been consistently running 1.023 to 1.025.

Lights are Coralife 65WPC's and with a rectangular 12G they seem to work pretty well.

I have placed the zoo's and mushrooms low in the tank and as far out of the main flow as I can. With a small tank and a AC200 and a mini jet power head it's hard to find areas of low flow. I turn the power head off at night to give the tank a little quite time. I have read that's a good idea so I'm trying it. I put black powder in at the same time.

I have a small bag of Phosguard and Chemipure in the filter but still get some green and brown algae on the tank. I have tried feeding the 2 fish less but the algae seems to always come. I take it off with one of those magnets things a couple times a week.

I don't have a skimmer. With a small tank I'm concerned that it will be full of hang on stuff. If I had a bigger tank then I could add a sump and put everything in it. I don't know of any skimmers that are small enough. If you or anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

I have about 1 1/2" of aragonite sand and 3 tongan snails to stir it up. I'm sure that I could have lower Nitrate's with a refugium but again there is no room and I don't think I want one that HOB. If you disagree please let me know.

What I want to do is use the nano reef as a learning experience and then, when the budget allows, move into to a bigger tank with all the "goodies". The most frustrating thing for me about nanoing is that you run out of room.

[MillerLite]

Jferebee,

 

Since you have been buying water from the LFS from the beginning, have you had the water tested. May be worth either testing the water yourself or having the water tested at another LFS.

 

Another question, you mentioned you use black powder. Although I too have used this in the past in a much larger tank, I havent really tried yet to use it in my nano. With the very small concentrations that you would need to add, are you sure that this is not having some effect. Unfortunately they wont release what is in this stuff. May want to hold off on adding the black powder to see if it has an effect.

 

You should try to keep your salinity constant at one level. Having a fluxuating range between 1.023-1.025 could be detrimental to the life of inverts . May wish to set up an auto-top off unit to keep salinity relatively constant.

 

One more point, although you mentioned that you dont think you want a HOB refugium, you may wish to consider some of the added benefits.

1) additional volume of water to help stabilize tank conditions

2) fill with macroalge to become nitrate sink and help remove nitrate from water

3) increase pod population in your tank that help to eat excess algae

4) can store heater, skimmer, etc... There are many options for small skimmers, one of which is a picollo skimmer. Do a search for this. Also, I just made my own using an airpump, a water container, a small tupperware dish, silicone, and an airstone. Not the best looking thing, but it fits in my AC150 when I decide to use it (2-3 times per weeks for several hours). You wont believe how much brown/green gunk it removes and the water is cleaner. May also prevent some waste from producing nitrates (an algae growth source).

 

The bottom line is that your tank is now about 3 months old. It is recomended that you wait until about this point before adding anything. You may have begun adding life to your tank disrupting your cycle process, thus possibly further delaying the time that the cycle would end. Just give it some more time and try not to add anything else until everything stabilizes. Just some thoughts. Good luck.

[skipp]

I'll also try and answer some of your questions.

1) I use instant ocean from the large bags. Salinity - 1.024, temp -79 with no fluxuation. It is beside a small window, but I don't think it gets any sunlight.

 

3 and 4)I use a modified Skilter 250. The output of that is what I use for flow. It is centered on the back of the tank and it looks like watter is moved some everywhere. I tried the super glue gel, and they just slime and I never got them to stick that way. I also tried the veil over them, which I am using now. Keeps them in place, but they still float around in it. I have moved them around and never really saw a difference in them. High low, heavy flow ,slight flow. Didn't seem to make a difference. I use distilled water for make up and top off. I am going to get a phosphate sponge this evening. Will that help with the nitrates any? I have a crushed shell substrate about 1" or so.

The clam is just a regular burrowing clam I think, Just big. And when I said open, I meant it had opened to where I could tell it was a clam. It has a red mantel and is very much alive. When I turn on the lights, he snaps shut. I will try to post a pic and see if anyone knows anything about it. I've had him about 2 or so weeks. Got "the rock" the same time I got the poor zoo's. Is there anything I can do for them? As I said, they seem to be over growing with the red slime and never have opened. I would love to "save" them. He wasn't open at the store, and I bought him as a piece of live rock. But, the shape and a small crack made me think it may be a clam so I bought it. It only opens up sometimes. Usually it's closed. but recently he was open enough that I could see the mantel and the small opening inside.Let me know if you think there is anything I can do for the zoos and thanks for the questions.

[skipp]

One more thingm Niller. Could I possibly use my skilter as a type of mini-refugium? I could just put the macroalgae in it and add a light. If so, what type of macroalgae do you think would work?

Thanks.

[MillerLite]

Sorry, been off computer for a while. Not familiar with the skilter. I assume that if the skilter is like a HOB, then I think that it would be possible. What kind of flow do you think there is in a skilter filter. The flow should be low enough to prevent the flow from disturbing the live sand in the refugium. May have to add some baffles to slow the flow. Do a thread search and see what you come up with. If nothing else, it may give you some ideas. Also, I am in the process of building a refugium myself. There is a refugium discussion section in this forum. I dont want to give you an erroneous suggestions. Pay special attention to how long the light should be on however. There is a problem often with many of the macroalgae going sexual and damaging the inhabitants of your tank. It has something to do with the length of time the light is on, in order to prevent it. I would look into that as well. Good luck. As I do my search, if I find anything, I will respond to this thread.