Roger’s Cursed 65g

[TheKleinReef]

Everything looks amazing Roger, so i wouldnt be so concerned about particles in your pictures if your sps keep looking legit.

I lost about $200 worth so I wouldn't say it's doing good.

But I know that my Alk was WAY to low last time. As far as I know, stuff is doing good now with proper Alk.

[Arce]

I lost about $200 worth so I wouldn't say it's doing good.

But I know that my Alk was WAY to low last time. As far as I know, stuff is doing good now with proper Alk.

 

From your last FTS everything looks great. Losing stuff always sucks but atleast your colonies all look very healthy.

[TheKleinReef]

If just makes pictures look.... Snowy. Lol

[TheKleinReef]

I'm starting to this the ATI is too far from the water line.

The closer the Stag gets to the light, the more growth tips it starts to produce.

The only reason I haven't lowered it is because the Katropora is relatively pale. But all the other SPS at the same depth look amazing (ORA valida, suharsonoi, aculeus, hurlock, etc).

[jedimasterben]

What is your photoperiod like right now?

[TheKleinReef]

What is your photoperiod like right now?

 

7:00-7:30 1 blue+ 1 actinic

7:30-8:00 2 blue+, 1 coral+, 1 purple+

8:00-19:00 3 blue+ 1 coral+, 1 purple+, 1 actinic

19:00-19:30 2 blue+, 1 coral+, 1 purple+

19:30-20:00 1 blue+ 1 actinic

[jedimasterben]

 

7:00-7:30 1 blue+ 1 actinic

7:30-8:00 2 blue+, 1 coral+, 1 purple+

8:00-19:00 3 blue+ 1 coral+, 1 purple+, 1 actinic

19:00-19:30 2 blue+, 1 coral+, 1 purple+

19:30-20:00 1 blue+ 1 actinic

Way, way too long. Cut that by three hours in the middle.

[TheKleinReef]

Way, way too long. Cut that by three hours in the middle.

 

but everything looks fine except one coral is lighter colored.

I hate changing things for just one coral.

 

when i had a shorter 6 bulb max peak, things didn't look as good as they do now.

[jedimasterben]

 

but everything looks fine except one coral is lighter colored.

I hate changing things for just one coral.

 

when i had a shorter 6 bulb max peak, things didn't look as good as they do now.

Any examples?

[TheKleinReef]

Any examples?

 

of what? things looking better?

 

yeah, all of my sps are alive, they were dying before.

 

but color wise?

RMK_0414.jpg by Roger Klein, on Flickr

june 2014 ^ with the shorter max peak.

 

that hurlock now:

My Hurlock Colony by Roger Klein, on Flickr

 

that green monti now:

Green/Purple Monti by Roger Klein, on Flickr

 

the suharsonoi got stung to s***, but even that looks better under this lighting regimen

suharsonoi by Roger Klein, on Flickr

 

going by these corals showing better color under more light, i wouldn't say it's too much light.

it may be too much for the kat, but not for the tank as a whole.

 

even the lower light corals like the montis/birdsnest are doing better now.

[jedimasterben]

I can say with pretty good certainty that your corals were not dying of lack of light and that the extra light is being used in the xanthphyll cycle and is ending up as heat inside your corals, reducing growth potential and leading to higher stress levels. Even purple pocillopora growing at the water line can only use ~250-300 PAR before their xanthophyll cycle starts to reduce the amount of light they're taking in, and spectrum is more important than intensity for coloration.

 

Markalot thought the same thing, more light has to be better at forcing corals into more growth and to make more pigments to fluoresce light away, longer photoperiod being an easy way to get a higher DLI, and yet now he is seeing the opposite, increased calcification and increased color from a reduction in both overall intensity and a shorter photoperiod, cutting his DLI by a good amount.

 

You can certainly keep the same photoperiod if you feel your corals 'need' it, you know them better than anyone else can, but the science of it says that you do not need that extra light and that it can have deleterious effects.

[TheKleinReef]

they were definitely under lit in the past. I didn't get good color out of stuff until I upped the photoperiod.

 

and what extra light? wouldn't i be seeing these signs of the photo-inhibition in more than just 1 cranky coral? especially in the lower-light corals.

 

 

eh if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'll change nothing.

[jedimasterben]

they were definitely under lit in the past. I didn't get good color out of stuff until I upped the photoperiod.

 

and what extra light? wouldn't i be seeing these signs of the photo-inhibition in more than just 1 cranky coral? especially in the lower-light corals.

More than likely you are seeing it in more than one coral, but because it has hit photoinhibition doesn't just mean the coral stops growing or dies off. When light is reduced, it can grow and perform photosynthesis normally. When the extra light is added as more lamps strike, they very quickly go over their threshold, photosynthesis is reduced (but not stopped), and they begin their xanthophyll cycle, and this will continue until either they run out of diadinoxanthin to convert to diatoxanthin (in which case they can bleach out and, if sustained, die) or light level is reduced, in which case photosynthesis begins to increase again. More light past the photosaturation point means more heat (the end product of the xanthophyll cycle), and most corals can tolerate quite a lot of it before any real damage occurs, but when light is reduced, the coral must convert diatoxanthin back to diadinoxanthin, using up more energy that they could be using for growth.

 

Here are a couple of graphs that show it in pocillopora damicornis at the water line.

 

 

 

Dana Riddle's graphs do not show recovery after photoinhibition, as he did not graph it for long enough.

 

 

IMHO, your Sunpower puts out too much light, even raised up, for me to believe that your corals were not receiving enough light with six lamps, considering that with only four lamps I get this at 27" distance.

 

 

Adding ~50% to these numbers and increasing distance to 32" (I think you're at roughly a foot above the tank, right?), in the middle you get roughly 175 PAR and 85 on the outside edges. These are conservative estimates, of course, your actual results should be higher than that due to the way the lamps and reflectors send out the light. My estimate for where your kat is is in the 550-600 range when all lamps are on, which is more than even kat gives hers, and even more than when it was at 'its peak' in her RSM.

[TheKleinReef]

More than likely you are seeing it in more than one coral, but because it has hit photoinhibition doesn't just mean the coral stops growing or dies off. When light is reduced, it can grow and perform photosynthesis normally. When the extra light is added as more lamps strike, they very quickly go over their threshold, photosynthesis is reduced (but not stopped), and they begin their xanthophyll cycle, and this will continue until either they run out of diadinoxanthin to convert to diatoxanthin (in which case they can bleach out and, if sustained, die) or light level is reduced, in which case photosynthesis begins to increase again. More light past the photosaturation point means more heat (the end product of the xanthophyll cycle), and most corals can tolerate quite a lot of it before any real damage occurs, but when light is reduced, the coral must convert diatoxanthin back to diadinoxanthin, using up more energy that they could be using for growth.

 

 

 

 

 

Dana Riddle's graphs do not show recovery after photoinhibition, as he did not graph it for long enough.

 

 

IMHO, your Sunpower puts out too much light, even raised up, for me to believe that your corals were not receiving enough light with six lamps, considering that with only four lamps I get this at 27" distance.

 

 

 

Adding ~50% to these numbers and increasing distance to 32" (I think you're at roughly a foot above the tank, right?), in the middle you get roughly 175 PAR and 85 on the outside edges. These are conservative estimates, of course, your actual results should be higher than that due to the way the lamps and reflectors send out the light. My estimate for where your kat is is in the 550-600 range when all lamps are on, which is more than even kat gives hers, and even more than when it was at 'its peak' in her RSM.

 

Okay, what sort of time frame are we looking at before the coral starts it's downhill spiral of photoperiod doom? It's been a year since I upped the photoperiod.

 

All of this scientific info is awesome. But It just makes no sense why lower light demand corals like my birdsnest, stylo, montis are all at the same level in the tank as the kat, but they look okay and have looked okay for upwards of 13 months. If there was too much light, the problems would manifest in that time, no?

[RollaJase]

I like the new watermark on the photos .

[Bunster]

Your katropora is stunning... truly the highlight of your tank

[bobssecrtsn]

Do any of you guys see Red bugs on the sps? or is it just me...

 

 

That may be your problem.

[jedimasterben]

Okay, what sort of time frame are we looking at before the coral starts it's downhill spiral of photoperiod doom? It's been a year since I upped the photoperiod.

 

All of this scientific info is awesome. But It just makes no sense why lower light demand corals like my birdsnest, stylo, montis are all at the same level in the tank as the kat, but they look okay and have looked okay for upwards of 13 months. If there was too much light, the problems would manifest in that time, no?

I can tell you that none of those corals are 'lower light' in the traditional sense. Realistically, they're in the same boat as acropora, pocillopora, porites, saturation typically happens in the 150-250 range with xanthophylls starting up and photosythetic yield dropping. The true shallow water corals have more of a xanthophyll cycle to rely on since they have evolved to be shallow water and to deal with the enormous amounts of light and total DLI.

 

If your corals were being starved of light, they would have looked like sticks of brown turds in the tank as they'd stop expelling zooxanthellae, but they wouldn't have died from it unless the light was extremely low (less than ~50 micromol) for an extended time, which with your light is not possible to happen unless you only ran two lamps all the time

 

You're probably not giving them so much light that as to overwhelm them, their xanthophyll cycles can handle the light stress, that would explain why you aren't seeing the issues in more coral. The birdsnest on the left would be receiving approximately half the light that the kat is getting, the montipora on the left getting higher, not quite 2/3 as is in the center. The montipora under the kat also would be between 1/2 and 2/3.

Do any of you guys see Red bugs on the sps? or is it just me...

 

 

That may be your problem.

holy ####berries

[TheKleinReef]

Do any of you guys see Red bugs on the sps? or is it just me...

 

 

That may be your problem.

Had them in the past, but when I took all the acros out last spring the population declined rapidly. Then I started the zeovit stuff and the corals fought them off. When I went home in August I inspected everything and couldn't find any. I'm not being naïve assuming that I have zero, but when I went home I couldn't find any. I made sure to inspect the Kat closely.

Anyways. Too much light science + Too much distance between me and my tank = 0% chance of anything changing.

[HarryPotter]

Do any of you guys see Red bugs on the sps? or is it just me...

 

 

That may be your problem.

Where?

[jedimasterben]

Sorry rog

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheKleinReef]

I like the new watermark on the photos .

Thanks. My friend made it. He was supposed to make some thumbnails but I've been waiting a year so I'm not holding my breath anymore. Hah

Sorry rog

 

 

 

 

 

never said i had 0 redbugs , and anyone that has sps will tell you its hard to have 0.

notice how the red bugs aren't effecting the PE, so i could care less if i have a few bugs scattered about.

I've had that suharsonoi for 3 years and it has always had a few redbugs hanging out, it only went down hill when it fell into the bubble coral.

 

any other aspect you want to rip apart on my tank, Ben? Geez

Might as well just take the whole damn thing down.

[TheKleinReef]

Where?

 

they're there as Ben was so eager to point out, but they're not as dense as they were in the past.

[bobssecrtsn]

Why dont you buy intercepter! they're finally making them, joepetmeds you can order the chewable tablets and be done with it. Its the Flatworms that kills ya!

 

 

You should really think about treating them with intercepter, when its over, your sps will thank you!

[TheKleinReef]

Why dont you buy intercepter! they're finally making them, joepetmeds you can order the chewable tablets and be done with it. Its the Flatworms that kills ya!

 

 

You should really think about treating them with intercepter, when its over, your sps will thank you!

 

can't really do anything when i'm 1800 miles from the tank.