Is there such thing as too much flow?

[GotamaHuy]

So I am doing research on starting a 20 Long and I read that you only need flow 10x the size of tank. So, you only really need 200gph, but on threads I see people getting up to 800gph by getting two Koralia Nano (425gph each). Why do you need so much? Do you have to get two Koralias or is only one good enough?

 

Thanks

[ry05coupe]

What do you plan to stock the tank with? LPS doesn't need too much flow while SPS can handle a ton of it. It greatly depends on what you plan to keep in the aquarium.

[Woogalie]

Cool! a 20L tank! Oooooh Yuuhhh

[GotamaHuy]

I would like to keep 4-6 fish, a lot of ZOAS (love them), rics, brains, frogspawn, hammers, candy canes, a lot of things I suppose. So how much flow would I need to keep a lot of different types of corals happy (LPS and SPS)

[JaneG]

I think you would only need one, depending on what types of corals you want to keep. With SPS corals, you would need more flow than one powerhead (maybe even two- since that would be a 45x turnover rate, while most people suggest 50x+). I assume that people who are using 2 powerheads are keeping SPS corals. Be aware that increased flow is also better for the tank in general, as it prevents dead spots and better suspends debris. However, if you have too much flow, certain corals (mainly LPS) can be damaged easily. However, they can also be kept in high flow environments as long as they are protected underneath a rock.

 

 

EDIT: Just noticed that you posted that you were planning a mixed reef, including SPS. I would highly suggest getting 2 powerheads, as this should give you just enough flow for SPS and low enough to keep most of the other corals you were planning. If you are planning any soft corals down the road (such as xenia), be aware that they prefer a high nutrient tank, whereas SPS corals prefer a low nutrient tank- so usually you can only keep one or the other fully happy. I would also be careful with the placement of your corals, since some of those can sting other corals. Additionally, if you are planning 4-6 fish, be aware that you should have probably have a skimmer of some sort if you want to keep SPS corals.

[Zoafreak]

zoa's i would go with 2 Koralia's 425, at the top of your tank. place your SPS at the top by the most flow, but not directly in it, and LPS lower and Zoanthids, ricordea's where ever you have room. i would say stay away from the frogspawn and hammer, or basically anything with sweeper tentacles if you only have a 20 L

[GotamaHuy]

ok thanks, so basically I will need 40x flow for sps and lps. If we take away the sps, is 10x or 20x flow good enough? Also, do the fish mind having 40x flow?

[Zoafreak]

depends on what kind. things like cardinals would hate it cause they pretty much just swim in one spot all day. what kind of fish are you thinking of?

[JaneG]

ok thanks, so basically I will need 40x flow for sps and lps. If we take away the sps, is 10x or 20x flow good enough? Also, do the fish mind having 40x flow?

I think it's safe to say that the majority of fish do fine in even the highest (80x+ turnover rate) flow tanks. The flow in aquariums is (supposedly) very, very small compared to the ocean. Certain fish *supposedly* do better without such high flow (firefish, cardinalfish, etc.), but I have seen both in very high flow SPS tanks and they adapted fine- the cardinals (bangaii cardinalfish) were able to swim against the flow fine, and the firefish was still able to hover in place. I think that a 20x turnover rate is good if you get rid of the sps corals, but specific corals are different- for example, goniopora (an LPS coral) prefers high flow, whereas bubble coral (also an LPS) prefers low flow. I would suggest taking a look at LiveAquaria's recommended flow for each coral you are planning. If the flowrate is low or medium, you should be fine. I would also double check each coral's temperament- for example, corals like bubble coral or frogspawn release surprisingly long sweepers that will sting any coral they can reach.

[GotamaHuy]

two clowns, firefish, tail spot blenny, yashi goby, royal gamma, six line, spotted mandarin if it eats frozen, maybe a yellow clown goby. Yes I know it is a lot, but those are what I am considering, maybe I'll get a 30 breeder lol

 

also how much flow is low, medium, and high (like 10x, 20x, and 40x)?

[Zoafreak]

shhhhhhesssh, way way too much dude. unless you plan on having a massive filter system or daily water changes. i'd cut out the mandarin and the goby, those are the hardest to keep out of those fish and the rest should go along just fine together

[GotamaHuy]

lol ya i know, but i love fish! ahah, which goby to take out?

[Alkamist]

well lets see i have a 29 gallon long tank at bout 31in long and i have 2 jbj 500 one Koralias 450 and a 750 which gives me almost 76x turn over and i do have a mixed reef with sps, lps, zoas and everything is fine. just make sure you dont have the powerheads shooting water at the lps, keep them in a lower flow but othere then that you'll be fine.

[JaneG]

two clowns, firefish, tail spot blenny, yashi goby, royal gamma, six line, spotted mandarin if it eats frozen, maybe a yellow clown goby. Yes I know it is a lot, but those are what I am considering, maybe I'll get a 30 breeder lol

 

also how much flow is low, medium, and high (like 10x, 20x, and 40x)?

I would call low 0-10x, medium 20x-40x, and high 40x+, but others might disagree.

 

I would highly suggest a 30 breeder, and would advise against some of those fish. The two clowns could start spawning and they might get aggressive- but some people report that they're not outright aggressive, so you might be fine. The firefish and tailspot blenny would both be good candidates for your tank. Be aware that the Yasha goby (assuming you're pairing it up with a pistol shrimp- which would make it less timid), prefers a mixed substrate (crushed coral, live rock rubble and fine sand), so I would plan for that before you set up your tank. The royal gramma has a tendency to be quite territorial, especially in smaller tanks, so I would suggest avoiding it. I would avoid the sixline wrasse also, as they supposedly can be extremely aggressive after being established. As for the spotted mandarin, be aware that a tank raised specimen (from ORA) would be a better bet, as they have been trained onto frozen food since birth. They're a little more expensive (~$50), but it seems to be worth it. I think that the yellow clown goby would also make a nice tank inhabitant.

 

Be aware that even if you have the best of filtration, your stocking list should be somewhat limited. Fish in the wild usually establish their own territories and then defend that territory from others. Some fish (such as gobies) will only defend a small territory (such as a sleeping spot), but other will take a much larger area. For example, jewel damselfish (supposedly) command territories that are quite large in the wild, despite their size (~3"-4"). With this in mind, you should try to make sure that each fish in your tank has their own territory where others won't invade it, otherwise aggression could occur. For a 30 breeder with decent filtration and ample rockwork (which increases the amount of available territories), I would suggest about 5-6 medium sized fish.

[GotamaHuy]

lol lame! I love the six line, and ya I knew that it was aggressive, but figured it wouldn't be if it was added last. Same with the royal gamma. Thanks for the heads up on the Yasha, I was gonna pair it up with the small pistol. Can I add more than one type of goby and blenny. Like a Midas and green clown?

[JaneG]

lol lame! I love the six line, and ya I knew that it was aggressive, but figured it wouldn't be if it was added last. Same with the royal gamma. Thanks for the heads up on the Yasha, I was gonna pair it up with the small pistol. Can I add more than one type of goby and blenny. Like a Midas and green clown?

Clown gobies can co-exist with eachother if they have a large enough tank... I would assume that your tank is large enough for 2 of them, but I could be wrong. The royal gramma *might* be okay, but again, they can get territorial and much larger than you might expect. My LFS has a very old one that's huge. The sixline wrasse has quite a bad reputation for aggression once it's established (regardless of when it was added). Fourline wrasse (supposedly) are much less aggressive, but this could be because they are much less common, and as a result, have less reports of aggression. Pink streaked wrasse ("Cryptic sixline wrasse") look somewhat similar to the sixline wrasse and are extremely peaceful, and would be a really good option for your tank. I would advise against mixing blennies in general, especially with the midas blenny. Midas blennies (supposedly) have a tendency to become bullies in smaller aquariums (under 30g), especially towards conspecifics.

[7digits]

I would call low 0-10x, medium 20x-40x, and high 40x+, but others might disagree.

 

I would highly suggest a 30 breeder, and would advise against some of those fish. The two clowns could start spawning and they might get aggressive- but some people report that they're not outright aggressive, so you might be fine. The firefish and tailspot blenny would both be good candidates for your tank. Be aware that the Yasha goby (assuming you're pairing it up with a pistol shrimp- which would make it less timid), prefers a mixed substrate (crushed coral, live rock rubble and fine sand), so I would plan for that before you set up your tank. The royal gramma has a tendency to be quite territorial, especially in smaller tanks, so I would suggest avoiding it. I would avoid the sixline wrasse also, as they supposedly can be extremely aggressive after being established. As for the spotted mandarin, be aware that a tank raised specimen (from ORA) would be a better bet, as they have been trained onto frozen food since birth. They're a little more expensive (~$50), but it seems to be worth it. I think that the yellow clown goby would also make a nice tank inhabitant.

 

Be aware that even if you have the best of filtration, your stocking list should be somewhat limited. Fish in the wild usually establish their own territories and then defend that territory from others. Some fish (such as gobies) will only defend a small territory (such as a sleeping spot), but other will take a much larger area. For example, jewel damselfish (supposedly) command territories that are quite large in the wild, despite their size (~3"-4"). With this in mind, you should try to make sure that each fish in your tank has their own territory where others won't invade it, otherwise aggression could occur. For a 30 breeder with decent filtration and ample rockwork (which increases the amount of available territories), I would suggest about 5-6 medium sized fish.

+1 on the cranks and the dislike. They will terrorize the others. As for the yashi goby, it's a peaceful fish and it is not hard to keep. I would recommend a pistol shrimp with it. Preferably a candy strip(randall's), it will stay small and it won't. Move frags. I have had my yashi and pistol for 2 years.

[Zoafreak]

lol ya i know, but i love fish! ahah, which goby to take out?

Yasha, they are definitely harder to take care of then a twin spot. I would say that six-lined wrasses are not aggressive, just get a small one and it will be fine with the others, if you can get a male cause those stay smaller, but it's hard to tell, slight slight color difference. also anything in the grammadae family is going to be aggressive. i have a black cap and he's a mean sucker. but anything bigger than him he's afraid of, lol. I usually don't put more then one goby in the same tank because of the food competition. alot of their diet comes from your tank as well as your regular feedings. but i guess something like clown gobies are fine together they are tiny

[GotamaHuy]

EF! Lol, I'll forget about the Royal. Ugh for a second there I wanted Bicolor, Tail Spot, and Midas lol. Dang I thought I did pretty good researching, but I guess not!

 

what is a twin spot?

[Zoafreak]

sorry i ment to say tail spot

[GotamaHuy]

ya, true since they only eat grass stuff right?

[Zoafreak]

lol don't look it up cause you will definately want one

[JaneG]

Yasha, they are definitely harder to take care of then a twin spot. I would say that six-lined wrasses are not aggressive, just get a small one and it will be fine with the others, if you can get a male cause those stay smaller, but it's hard to tell, slight slight color difference. also anything in the grammadae family is going to be aggressive. i have a black cap and he's a mean sucker. but anything bigger than him he's afraid of, lol. I usually don't put more then one goby in the same tank because of the food competition. alot of their diet comes from your tank as well as your regular feedings. but i guess something like clown gobies are fine together they are tiny

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't twin spot gobies (Signigobius biocellatus) often starve to death? Scott Michael's book Reef Fishes ranks them as one of the hardest to keep fish, because they often die due to a lack of food in the sandbed. He even suggests feeding five times a day to keep it healthy. Also, for the Pseudocheilinus family, I believe that all females (when kept alone) will turn into males, which could explain why some people claim theirs go berserk after a while.

 

I would also wait a while before adding a blenny. They graze on algae for a large part of the day, so they prefer a mature system with a good amount of algae, otherwise they could starve.

[Zoafreak]

ya, true since they only eat grass stuff right?

and frozen foods

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't twin spot gobies (Signigobius biocellatus) often starve to death? Scott Michael's book Reef Fishes ranks them as one of the hardest to keep fish, because they often die due to a lack of food in the sandbed. He even suggests feeding five times a day to keep it healthy. Also, for the Pseudocheilinus family, I believe that all females (when kept alone) will turn into males, which could explain why some people claim theirs go berserk after a while.

yeah I talked to the manager at my LFS when they had one about it and they said they fed it 4x a day. fricken thing went to town on food. but then again you should feed any goby at LEAST TWO times a day.

[GotamaHuy]

tail spot blenny eat frozen foods? like meat?