wall frogspawn help

[afresh]

I have had many different types of wall frogspawns in my 29g biocube. All do great for about a month then I start to see signs of tissue receding then to it's demise. (It also only happens to the wall coral not the branching type.) I have had them in all places of my tank but each one with the same out come. What is going on?

 

So I'm calling out someone that has uber experience with these corals that can help me to keep this last attempt to keep this Aussie green and pink tip wall frogspawn alive.

 

Here's my stats:

Ammonia 0

Nitrate 5 ppm

Nitrite 0

Calcium 450 ppm

Alkalinity 11 dkh

PH 8.2-8.3

5g water changes weekly

 

Here's my mods

NEP light w/ uvl bulbs

Stevie T's media basket

-1st level filter

-2nd and 3rd level caulerpa

JBJ Refugium light

Tunze 9002 protien skimmer

Vortech MP10 pump

Tunze Recirculation Pump/Powerhead Silence 1073.020

Tunze Osmolator Universal 3155

ReefKeeper lite

Corallife UV sanitizer

plus other's

 

Here's my live stock Corals

Anthelia

Blue pulsing xenia

2 branching frogspawn (1 is bicolor)

Aussie Green and pink wall Frogspawn (need help with)

Green Toadstool

Duncan's

Acans

Purple and Green Hairy brain

Pink and green open brain

Sun coral

Green SP

Mushrooms

 

Here's my live stock fish

blue spot jaw fish

mystery wrasse

2 helfrichi

red dragonet

green clown coby

tailspot blenny

 

8 conch snail

4 scarlet hermit crabs

2 halloween hermit crabs

zebra hermit crab

emerald crab

turbo snail

lettuce nudibranch

 

I think that's it. Let me know if you see some thing that I don't. Everything helps. Thanks

Edited April 16, 2011 by blueb2200

[afresh]

Do you guys need more info or pictures to help with my description?

[youincolor]

shoot us some pictures. i cant see any reason in your tank description why you wouldnt be able to keep any corals you want alive...pretty weird.

[afresh]

i cant see any reason in your tank description why you wouldnt be able to keep any corals you want alive...pretty weird.

 

Thanks JT, I know that's what's kill me over this. I'll take some pics later tonight and post them. I hope you can help.

[yoshii]

Did it melt into brown jelly?

[afresh]

No it just seems to recede then slowly die. It's real weird.

[burtbollinger]

having a similar issue recently...too much flow was the result IMO....from the Vortech MP-10. I can only have it at the lowest setting. What occured are little stress tears you may not see, and the coral detierorates from the injury point.

 

A dip in Revive may help, IME.

Edited April 17, 2011 by burtbollinger

[afresh]

Here are some pics. Sorry for the clarity of the pics, took them from my phone. Girlfriend has the DSLR camera. Also sorry for the xenia looking crappy. The flipped over and it's taking them some time to recoup.

 

(looking at the right part of the frogspawn you can see the part that is starting to recede)

 

 

While I was taking some pics I see this thing on it's tisue. What is it?

 

Here are some more pics for fun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2011 by blueb2200

[afresh]

BurtB, what is revive? I did notice that too, where the vortech pump was to strong. I dialed mine all the way down and have it on lagoon mode. Where is yours' set to?

Edited April 17, 2011 by blueb2200

[afresh]

Ok, I know you guys are thinking that I'm crazy for saying that the frogspawn is receding from the looks of the pictures I posted so I decided to take some pictures while the tank's lights were off. Let me know what you're thinking.

 

 

[paradox_of_reef]

I take it you don't have a quarantine tank? i doubt it's getting too much light if you are running the stock biocube lights the only thing i could say it either too much flow or its being irritated by something in your tank. ever notice anything nipping at it or it touching other corals but i doubt thats the problem because normally frogspawn is the aggressor in that situation. How long have you had it?

[doppelganger]

BurtB, what is revive? I did notice that too, where the vortech pump was to strong. I dialed mine all the way down and have it on lagoon mode. Where is yours' set to?

 

Revive is a dip made by two little fishies/Julian Sprung. It's full name is ReVive Coral Cleaner and basically for cleaning and dipping corals. It's natural and works pretty well. It stinks tho...

 

Sorry don't have any experience with wall frogspawn tho so can't really help with that. Hope everything works out for you.

[afresh]

Paradox_of_reef,

 

Yah I do have a QT. You think that I need to move it over there? I'm reluctant to do that because I know the more you handle them when they're in this type of condition it gets worse. So should I do Lugol's dip?

 

The only thing that I'm thinking is that the FS was in the middle of my tank by my Ducans and the part that is receding was the closet to it. But not touching. May be the Dancans are to strong. I moved over it to the right side of the tank just in case.

 

I do see crabs at night crawling on it's skeleton.

 

Flow, vortech pump is dialed all the way down on lagoon mode.

 

I have NEP for my lighting with UVL bulbs from nanotunners.

 

Doppelganger,

 

Thanks I was being a Nelly about googling Revive. I did that this morning. Thanks for the info though. Have you used it before?

[Weetabix7]

I've used Revive and like it.

My LPS seem to respond pretty well to Revive.

I had a weird situation once where it looked as if some kind of parasite was attacking all of the Acans in my tank, so I dipped every piece of LPS I had in Revive (it took a while) and I saw tank wide improvement after that.

I pretty much exclusively use Revive and lugol's for dips now.

[doppelganger]

yep I've used it. Works well. Quick, easy, and can kill off quite a few pests with it. Smells like pinesol haha. Lugol's will essentially do the same tho.

[paradox_of_reef]

If you have a quarantine tank i think its worth a try. like i said i doubt anything is stinging it considering your list of corals. You could try moving it to a low flow and low light area. i recently moved my frogspawn to my sand bed and i saw a lot of improvement. if the coral appears sick or if you have reason to believe it may have parasite then a dip is a good idea. You are right its best not to handle it if possible but i think you should try one one theses solutions we have provided, maybe both (dip and quarantine).

[afresh]

So I did Lugol's dip yesterday. I saw a couple of pods dart in out real quick but nothing real big. I hope this helps. Wish me luck.

[paradox_of_reef]

So I did Lugol's dip yesterday. I saw a couple of pods dart in out real quick but nothing real big. I hope this helps. Wish me luck.

Good Luck!

[Weetabix7]

I've been thinking about this, and I wonder if the nature of the flow coming from a Vortech could be causing the problem.

Regardless of what setting you have it on, there is always an ebb and flow and I wonder if this could possibly be causing micro-tears that then cause further problems through not healing/infection.

 

I thought of this partly because of some of the above discussion, partly from discussion w/n0rk on how difficult Euphyllids can be and partly cause of a situation with a Frogspawn in a previous tank.

I had a 30L with a large Branching Frogspawn (not Wall).

The tank initially did well, but I noticed problems after I added an MP20.

One of the worst affected corals was my large Frogspawn, and it was unhappy no matter what I did.

I kept my MP20 at about 30% on the Lagoon setting.

I wonder if it was getting micro tears from the flow, releasing unhappy coral chemicals into the tank, and futher stressing other tank inhabitants.

 

Anyway, would it be possible for you to slightly rearrange things in your tank so that the Frogspawn is in a "cup" of rock that shields it from direct flow?

Maybe that in addition to dips to assist with healing and recovery can bring it back.

[afresh]

Paradox_of_reef,

 

Thanks, I think I might need it.

 

Weetabix7,

 

After reeding your reply, I stopped and thought about the logic of what you said and I think that you're right. If I go back up to the second picture. I think the black thing on the FS underneath tissue is the tear you're talking about. By me moving it closer to the pump and not in the middle of the tank, it appears that the pump isn't targeting the FS anymore.

 

Should I keep on doing the Lugol's dip? Full strength?

 

Also my LFS told me to target feed the FS but everything I read has mentioned that you don't need to target feed FS. So questions is should I? Well, to make things even more complicated I started to, using Oyster Feast and mysis. But in doing so my nitrates scored all the way up to 20 ppm. Now I'm in the process of trying to get it back down to 0. My friend told me to get aquaripure filter to help with the reduction of water changes and to reduce nitrates down to 0. Has anyone used or heard of this product?

 

 

Here's the link.

http://www.aquaripure.com/index.htm

[afresh]

OK I did a water change to get my nitrates down to about 10ppm but my salinity went up a little 1.024. (reading my thread I know it probably sounds like I'm panicking so I'll try to mellow it down, like you are all holding your breath for me to fix my tank lol ). My frogspawn is being super weird and doesn't look good. I'm at a loss and don't really know what to do to get this guy back. Here are some pics.

 

 

 

 

Should I turn off my Vortech pump? Move it down to the sand bed? What's your thought on target feeding FS? Anything?

[afresh]

Well after many weeks I have finally lost my wall coral.

 

For people out there wondering for a solution. I think from this experience, the one thing that I have learned is that all wall euphyllias (Euphyllia divisa) hate areas with flow. They are more temperamental and sensitive to this. My vortech MP10 which is awesome, has maybe to much flow even at the lowest setting. Hopefully Ecotech will come up with new firmware update that allow you to get to 100 gph or lower. So make sure to put them an area with low to no flow. Just my two penny's.

[Seamonkey84]

I was thinking if its doing well for a while then goes downhill, maybe it wasn't getting fed enough.. My experience with flow problems had been more immediate. I target feed all my LPS with mysis, and chopped up krill at least once a week. Though my experience has been with acan lords not frogspawn. Just my .02

[acropora1981]

I was thinking if its doing well for a while then goes downhill, maybe it wasn't getting fed enough.. My experience with flow problems had been more immediate. I target feed all my LPS with mysis, and chopped up krill at least once a week. Though my experience has been with acan lords not frogspawn. Just my .02

 

Euphyllia's don't exhibit strong feeding responses, so its doubtful that feeding would be the issue.

 

Strong flow though can tear/stress delicate euphyllia. Wall euphllia's are much more sensitive to physical trauma than branching varities, and once it starts to receed, it can be difficult to stop that recession.

Edited June 4, 2011 by acropora1981

[Kierik]

Walling frogspawn/hammers are known to also not ship well and it can take months before the deterioration shows. I believe there was an article several years ago written about how wall frogspawn/hammers were very hardy and common as the first hard corals kept in captivity. This article was a look back as many of the specimens seen at the time of its publication would die slowly. The author theorized (I cant remember if it was backed up scientifically) it was a bacterial infection that happened during harvest/transport to the US. I cannot find this article but i think it was written sometime prior to 2006 (so many publications have gone under). On the east coast walling varieties are very rare and most come in very poor condition. When i read the article I could not find much fault with the arguments as what i had experienced was very similar. I had worked at the time at a reef shop that received many frogspawns/hammers and every few months a walling variety (usually pricey). These tanks did not have a too much flow issue (power head less systems just a cascade bulkhead system with a high turn over) and the walling varieties were kept in the same conditions at the branching ones. People I know have kept specimens for upwards of a year and a half and experienced the regression issue in the presence of branching varieties.