phoenix

Possible Pinched mantle syndrome or something else disintergrating?

Hello All

 

Relatively experenced reefer just not in the area of clams,

tank spec: 4ft x 2ft x 2ft mixed reef prodominantly moving towards SPS with large sucess

Lighting: ATI powermodule 8 x 54watt

Ca reactors stable parameters and run near ULNS.

fish: Sailfin and Naso tang, pair of clowns, 6 line wrasse tail spot blenny and mandarin. (no hermit crabs and about 4 snails) but i do have asterina star fish grrrr

 

Last week i brought myself a maxima clam (2.5") from a LFS which was doing great, I noticed this morning some white looking thread at the bottom corner of the clams mantle which conserned me a litte, but with no time to check it out i had to go out, i just got back in and although the majority of the white threads have gone the clam looks awful down that bottom corner.

 

now im trying to figure out if this is A) a tear/disintergation B) pinched mantle or C) both. and then the odds of survival.

 

the clam itself is on the sandbed, and has since noticing the threads moved about 1-2'

 

the remaining mantle is at "normal" condition, still reacts to fish swimming above by closing slightly, i can see the inhale syphon (the long small one) pumping water in and out but the exhale (larger hole one, may have exhale and inhale the wrong way round) looks pretty bad shape nearest the "threads" and the mantle in that corner is pinched

 

What do you guys think? is there hope for it? is it the asterina? a protozoa? a mechanical tear from somewhere/something. ive not noticed any of my fish peck at it at all(until 30 seconds a go when i saw the sailfin!).

 

should i pull it out and segrigate/hospital tank it as it were? leave it as it is? ?

 

photos to follow.

 

DSC_0098.jpg

no flash

DSC_0097.jpg

flash

DSC_0099.jpg

FTS

 

i've put a plastic bottle over it for now to see if it is the tank whos the culprit and if so i'll probably move in to one of my overflow boxes (top left) which serve as my fraq boxes

Edited by phoenix

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Nice tank. Love the dimensions and the tang! Not sure about your clam sorry. I'm no pro and have only had one for a couple months. Someone should be able to help you though.

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My clam looked like that before I went to bed and the next morning I awoke to a dead clam : (

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Hi guys firstly thanks for the compliement, ive been reefing for about 4.5 years now; seriously for about 1.5 years and the tank in its current condition was an upgrade from my previous in october(along with an ATI powermodule <3). Yes the tangs are nice but to be honest theyre getting a bit big for their boots adn im contemplating rehoming them along with the 6line.......

 

Hi JumpLittleClhoe, yeah to be honest im not holding out much hope for it as ive seen a few and know the success rates in a healy clam anyhow let alone one thats in a bad state,

 

and in honest im pretty gutted its been a while since i had anything die on me and ive been holding out on a maxima clam for nearly 2 years after having a bad experience with a gorilla crab in a previous tank.

 

Did you ever find out what caused it in the end, im determined to have a maxima as its been on my wanted list for a long time (years) but obviously i dont want to keep pumping them into the tank if theres a predator in the tank.

 

hmmm :(

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What are you looking at to make the diagnosis.

I'm also a clam noob, and am curious.

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Well i thought it might be PM but whats with the "white" threads that i saw this morning before there was PM?

 

what would you recomend for the Fresh water dip? r.o heated to the same temp as tank? add some melefix? etc i'll do some hunting i the mean while

 

Luke

 

edit i saw your reply on another post, TheMadReefer regarding this post

 

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_4/clams.html

 

i'll give the clam a fresh water dip when i get in, 1 question though how do you actually pH match the r.o? ive read that jsut bicarb should be enough?

 

edit also the diagnosis for PM is funnly enough a pinched mantle, in extreme cases the mantle actualyl starts to detatch from the shell, its can be intiated by numerous things, from coral burns, changes in enviromental factors mechanical/phyiscal damage. generally anything that could weaken the immune system becasue its caused by a protazoa (kinda similar to how Brownjelly effects lps)

Edited by phoenix

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What are you looking at to make the diagnosis.

I'm also a clam noob, and am curious.

 

 

 

see the folding and pinching in these areas?

 

classic first signs of PM

 

DSC_0098.jpg

 

Well i thought it might be PM but whats with the "white" threads that i saw this morning before there was PM?

 

what would you recomend for the Fresh water dip? r.o heated to the same temp as tank? add some melefix? etc i'll do some hunting i the mean while

 

Luke

 

edit i saw your reply on another post, TheMadReefer regarding this post

 

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_4/clams.html

 

i'll give the clam a fresh water dip when i get in, 1 question though how do you actually pH match the r.o? ive read that jsut bicarb should be enough?

 

edit also the diagnosis for PM is funnly enough a pinched mantle, in extreme cases the mantle actualyl starts to detatch from the shell, its can be intiated by numerous things, from coral burns, changes in enviromental factors mechanical/phyiscal damage. generally anything that could weaken the immune system becasue its caused by a protazoa (kinda similar to how Brownjelly effects lps)

 

 

I've actually never PH adjusted the water and the clams i've treated have all come through just fine....clams of this kind in nature are used to being exposed to freshwater for prolonged periods of time with no ill effects

 

just make sure you temp adjust the water and obviously use RO/DI water only!!

 

10 minutes b/c it's not a severe case.....take him out, turn him over a couple of times to get as much FW off and out of him as you can and then just place him back in the tank with the lights off for about 3-4 hours

 

give him 2-3 days to recover 100%

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Ya. I second that. Start temp and pH adjusted FW dips ASAP.

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thats well timed guys, and thanks for pointing out, i saw the obvious bottom "mess" but didnt notice the top, heh you live and learn, fingers crossed aye,

 

would you recomend i forget the pH adjusted then? im currently adjusting it in my tank but its taking an age, i could do a temp ajusted R.O dip now? 9well 10 minutes to reheat some r.o

Edited by phoenix

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thats well timed guys, and thanks for pointing out, i saw the obvious bottom "mess" but didnt notice the top, heh you live and learn, fingers crossed aye,

 

would you recomend i forget the pH adjusted then? im currently adjusting it in my tank but its taking an age, i could do a temp ajusted R.O dip now? 9well 10 minutes to reheat some r.o

 

 

 

temp adjusted RO dip is fine....let us know how it turns out

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well here goes nothing then, i'll take some photos during to show the damage a bit better and the after etc.

 

i really appciate the help i was gutted earlier when i thought it was a gonner but feel slightly more optimistic. atleast now i feel ive given it all i could if it doenst make it then it was just unlucky (i dont think it was anything down to me, my params are fine, fish choice and stocking fine, im pretty sure the sailfin was jsut pecking the shell for algae/detritus like he does on my rocks normally)

 

I actually have some phyto as well if it makes it over the next few days would you recomend feeding it?

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well here is a very quick nitty gritty video i took as i was dipping the clam, you can see the clamp repeatedly openening and closing itself i assume to try adn flush the r.o out of its system and or anything on it. I also took a very rushed video of the tank, i didnt realised how rushed it was and will take a better one with a better camera, that was taken on my BB

 

th_VID00048-20110225-2201.jpg

 

i also have a few photos to upload taken with the d40x

DSC_0101-1.jpg

DSC_0102.jpg

DSC_0103.jpg

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(these photos were taken after 10-15 minutes in the tub with SALTWATER not r.o (thought id give ti a chance to recover first.

 

DSC_0105.jpg

torn mantle or PM? but worse still... i can see through the clam, the basal foot has been damaged :'(

DSC_0106.jpg

you can just see a little bit there its hard to angle and the focal distance was too short

DSC_0107.jpg

 

le sigh T_T

Edited by phoenix

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like i said they may look a bit "scrunched" or pulled in right after a FW dip....give him at LEAST 2 days but more than likely 3 before talking about the state of the mantle

 

was the clam attached to anything?? and if so how did you remove it??

 

the foot although you can see through it still looks ok from what i can see from the pics

Edited by ThemadReefer

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check for pyramid snails too

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check for pyramid snails too

 

Hi All I know Phoenix in real life, ie. He is my best mate.

 

He has indeed checked for pyramid snails, even under a magnifying glass.... Hopefully in 2-3hours he'll have a verdict...

 

All praying it will be ok and I would just like to thank you all for the help you've given him! x

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HI themadReefer.

 

The clam was attached to a flat stone which i put underneath it as advised in most clam info sites etc. but when i came home from univiersity in the evening it had moved about 2' from its origional spot so when i picked it up it wasnt attached to anything it had detatched itsef or something had pulled/pushed it off the rock.

 

could be coinsidental but after i removed my plastic guard and the clam for the dip the naso tang started pecking and "chewing" at the basal threads left on the rock so it could have been one of the tangs which pecked at it/pushed it in the start.

 

although i have had a look at the maxima clam when i brought it and also when i dipped it for any signs of pryramid snails i couldnt see any (those white flecs are jsut fine sand particles when looked under i mag glass, they werent there when i brought it and are only on one side where it kinda dragged itself/got dragged)

 

just had a quick look at the maxima but its before the main lights come on and it doesnt look so great looks like its gaping and more PM

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HI themadReefer.

 

The clam was attached to a flat stone which i put underneath it as advised in most clam info sites etc. but when i came home from univiersity in the evening it had moved about 2' from its origional spot so when i picked it up it wasnt attached to anything it had detatched itsef or something had pulled/pushed it off the rock.

 

could be coinsidental but after i removed my plastic guard and the clam for the dip the naso tang started pecking and "chewing" at the basal threads left on the rock so it could have been one of the tangs which pecked at it/pushed it in the start.

 

although i have had a look at the maxima clam when i brought it and also when i dipped it for any signs of pryramid snails i couldnt see any (those white flecs are jsut fine sand particles when looked under i mag glass, they werent there when i brought it and are only on one side where it kinda dragged itself/got dragged)

 

just had a quick look at the maxima but its before the main lights come on and it doesnt look so great looks like its gaping and more PM

 

 

well usually they will detach themselves when they want to move so i dont think anything pulled it off. secondly it's NOT unusual to have a tang or a butterfly or a angel of some kind munch on the leftover byssal threads so dont worry about that

 

as far as the clams condition gaping after a dip is usually a normal thing for the first day and again the condition of the mantle will be ruffled and pulled in until it recovers from the dip

 

just to be on the safe side when the lights come on snap a pic or two and post it up just so we can have a look

 

patience is the name of the game here my friend.....sometimes with PM it's worse before it gets better, especially when you dip them.....the day after they will look like hell

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here you go some photos taken earlier this morning

 

DSC_0105-1.jpg

DSC_0106-1.jpg

DSC_0107-1.jpg

DSC_0108.jpg

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here you go some photos taken earlier this morning

 

DSC_0105-1.jpg

DSC_0106-1.jpg

DSC_0107-1.jpg

DSC_0108.jpg

 

 

 

doesnt look too terrible a day removed from a dip......not to say it doesn't look bad b/c it does!! lol.....just give it another day or so

 

why is it still in a tub?? it should be in the tank and if it is then you should NOT be moving it around......the stress from both are likely to make matters worse

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doesnt look too terrible a day removed from a dip......not to say it doesn't look bad b/c it does!! lol.....just give it another day or so

 

why is it still in a tub?? it should be in the tank and if it is then you should NOT be moving it around......the stress from both are likely to make matters worse

 

Hi MadReefer, its still in the same tub ( with gentle water flow from the one last night) i figured this would be better then putting it back on the sand bed as its in "isolation" etc (i.e its been moved from the tank --> freshwater dip ---> salt water in tub) i didnt move it this morning for the photos

 

i can move it back into the main tank if you feel it would be better but figured im gonna have to move it again in 2-3 days to do another dip if need be.

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well either way leave it be....it would probably be better in the main tank to be honest.....just try not to stress it too much

 

let me and everyone else how it goes tonight/tomorrow

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well either way leave it be....it would probably be better in the main tank to be honest.....just try not to stress it too much

 

let me and everyone else how it goes tonight/tomorrow

will do

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awe poor guy :( :( :(

 

My clam looks IDENTICAL to that one minus the injury.. and my clown knocked the bajesus out of him so i had to remove him from where he was and guide him into a new place.. hardly fellas they are

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