The "Mini" World! PIX!(rimless 10g build)

[bitts]

first

http://alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm

 

the dif between a 29 & a 20 is huge. I would never go with the 20 between the two there are simply to many pluses in favor of the 29. the extra height means that the light losses punch as it penetrates the water column. thats a good thing. allows for a better mix of light needs. the height means that if you want sand your not compromising your available water column.

 

tanks I would use. 10, 15, 29, 37, 30, 38, 45, & 40B

where 20L , 23, & 30B are like the perfect sump.

 

My 29x20 setup has 30 gallon's for total system volume.

[bitts]

Wait, im confused. I was reccomending a 14 for a display, are you saying it would not be a good choice for a sump, cause I do agree with that.

yes thought you ment 14 for the sump my bad.

[Mini-Dude]

first

http://alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm

 

the dif between a 29 & a 20 is huge. I would never go with the 20 between the two there are simply to many pluses in favor of the 29. the extra height means that the light losses punch as it penetrates the water column. thats a good thing. allows for a better mix of light needs. the height means that if you want sand your not compromising your available water column.

 

tanks I would use. 10, 15, 29, 37, 30, 38, 45, & 40B

where 20L , 23, & 30B are like the perfect sump.

 

My 29x20 setup has 30 gallon's for total system volume.

So if I wanted to do a 30 with a 20l sump. It would work. I would have the added volume so I could overstock a little. Then I would have a place for a powerful skimmer.....

 

Stocking would be the same just add a Midas......fuge would deff be bigger so more macro and livestock.........an overflow for who knows where....custom stand......a nice T5 setup for the 30.....a PAR 30 for the3 fuge......you should just see it in my head right now.........beuuuttttiiifffuuuuullll

[bitts]

Or step to the 29 & run 24" T5's. Instead of 36" T5 to save some money on the build & the power. Based on the needs of the system why step up to the 29 or larger still the 30. What is gained. With out a specific need to be met, its not wise to change a design. Is there anything on your stocking list that needs that extra 6 inches. Now don't take any of this wrong, just make the choice based on understanding. After all, I don't think anyone said the double was a bad idea. Just that it didn't seem to be understanding based.

 

But yeah, nice display. Big sump with a rocking skimmer. It's great unless stock should have been in something else.

[spanko]

Wow. This thread has changed direction more times than any I can think of.

 

Mini-Dude, just my opinion here but going back to your original thoughts an AIO like a nano cube or a biocube would serve you better as a novice. Pretty much self contained units, will get you familiar with and efficient at keeping a marine environment and can be upgraded as time and funds become available.

The path you are going down now, IMO, requires a at least modest amount of skill and understanding that I am not prepared to say that you have. I think you are being led down a path of confusion here and it is evident in your ever changing mind. There are many things you can do in this hobby but the question you have to ask yourself and answer is are you skilled enough, knowledgeable enough to do them and do you have the funds for the initial investment as well as the long term upkeep.

 

Sorry guys, just me trying to be a tad realistic with a youngster.

[bitts]

No worry's & I don't disagree with any of what you say. Actually, my whole point has been that I don't think there has been enough research for there to be the understanding to setup any system yet.

[Lee Van Reef]

Even thought I'm still a scrub, I agree. I look at my 40 breeder sometimes and think about what I've gotten myself into, and it's only halfway done!

That being said, I think, half of the learning experience is in setting up the tank itself. Once you start, you learn real quick how things work, simply because of the time and money you will be/have been putting in to it.

Since you already got a rough Idea on livestock, just work with that. If you can keep the livestock you want with a nanocube, go that route, as it would be much simpler. Instead of worrying about all the DIY work, you can concentrate on proper husbandry and maintenance.

If you have your heart set on a DIY setup, go with something simple that will still accommodate your livestock. As bitts said, a 29 would be nice and so would a 20 long.

The key here should be research and decision. If not , you will be stuck in a limbo between tanks!

[dtfleming]

49 pages of nothing. Why go around a make a jbj owners club and Oceanic owners club when you cannot even make up your mind what you want. Bigger question how are you going to fund either tank? Mom and Dad, paper route? Buying the setup is one thing, being able to stock it and keep buying supplies that you will need is another. Stick with around a 20gal tank to start out with. YOU have to make up your mind not anyone else.

[Weetabix7]

Wow. This thread has changed direction more times than any I can think of.

 

Mini-Dude, just my opinion here but going back to your original thoughts an AIO like a nano cube or a biocube would serve you better as a novice. Pretty much self contained units, will get you familiar with and efficient at keeping a marine environment and can be upgraded as time and funds become available.

The path you are going down now, IMO, requires a at least modest amount of skill and understanding that I am not prepared to say that you have. I think you are being led down a path of confusion here and it is evident in your ever changing mind. There are many things you can do in this hobby but the question you have to ask yourself and answer is are you skilled enough, knowledgeable enough to do them and do you have the funds for the initial investment as well as the long term upkeep.

 

Sorry guys, just me trying to be a tad realistic with a youngster.

 

I think this may be true.

Looking at the big picture MD, it might be better if you started out with an All-In-One tank (for the reasons spanko mentioned) and as you gain more practical hands-on experience and knowledge, you could upgrade to a more complicated system down the road.

[arwndsh]

MD none of the fish you listed can't be kept together so why not get the 23L or 20L (whatever it was). Make the entire thing a display macro tank with corals Add an appropriate sized HOB filter use a 30" T-5 setup and be done with it.

 

I understand what Bitts is trying to get you to do in thinking about everything, but just because you learn about something doens't mean you have to incorporate it into your tank. If you have enough macro's the bioload you want in your tank wouldn't require a skimmer imo.

 

Feel free to check out my old tank to see how I did nice and simple. My current tank is set up along this lines as well, but my old thread has more info.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=162941&hl=

[bitts]

If you have enough macro's the bioload you want in your tank wouldn't require a skimmer imo.

They only pull, like 20%ish of the TOC. so you'll have to do water changes for the rest anyway.

[Mini-Dude]

Even thought I'm still a scrub, I agree. I look at my 40 breeder sometimes and think about what I've gotten myself into, and it's only halfway done!

That being said, I think, half of the learning experience is in setting up the tank itself. Once you start, you learn real quick how things work, simply because of the time and money you will be/have been putting in to it.

Since you already got a rough Idea on livestock, just work with that. If you can keep the livestock you want with a nanocube, go that route, as it would be much simpler. Instead of worrying about all the DIY work, you can concentrate on proper husbandry and maintenance.

If you have your heart set on a DIY setup, go with something simple that will still accommodate your livestock. As bitts said, a 29 would be nice and so would a 20 long.

The key here should be research and decision. If not , you will be stuck in a limbo between tanks!

i think I might just do a 20L with a 10g sump/fuge.....I think it would be less than the NC and you would have more water volume. Plus I like the looks of the 20L's great chances for a good scape...

 

49 pages of nothing. Why go around a make a jbj owners club and Oceanic owners club when you cannot even make up your mind what you want. Bigger question how are you going to fund either tank? Mom and Dad, paper route? Buying the setup is one thing, being able to stock it and keep buying supplies that you will need is another. Stick with around a 20gal tank to start out with. YOU have to make up your mind not anyone else.

I would be funding my own tank....thats why I'm taking so long to decide.....I want to get it right the first time and not have to upgrade all the time.....we've been over this....

[aaron1987]

I would be funding my own tank....thats why I'm taking so long to decide.....I want to get it right the first time and not have to upgrade all the time.....we've been over this....

 

I thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents based on my own experience. I originally got into this hobby when I was in 6th grade using paper route money when VHO lights were the hot new thing. I'm 23 now and I've been through several setups and more equipment modifications and changes than I can count.

 

You are always going to be learning something more in this hobby, and that's why it's challenging and fun. Every time I open a new thread I see something I could implement or change about my setup. To a certain extent, reefkeeping is like riding a bicycle. You're going to make noob mistakes when you actually get your hands wet no matter how long or how much you read before diving in. The surest way to get frustrated and give up is to do something you don't completely understand. I applaud you for the amount of research and effort you're putting into this - but don't succumb to paralysis by analysis. Get your lights right the first time (e.g., something that can support SPS). The rest can be accumulated over time. And don't think of AIO's as limiting, this was my 47g version of an AIO. No sump. No Fuge. No plumbing.

 

 

P.S. This is my roundabout way of recommending an AIO tank to you.

[Mini-Dude]

Wow!!! Does that have a skimmer or anything? Any filtration?

[aaron1987]

Wow!!! Does that have a skimmer or anything? Any filtration?

 

Skimmer: Warner Marine H2 hang-on.

Bulk Reef Supply Canister Filter that I ran carbon and GFO in.

 

That's it. It's all about husbandry and stability. Be real about what your tank can support at any given moment and buy accordingly. If you can think you miiight be able to make it work, don't do it. You will regret it. Be 100% confident your system is appropriate for what you are adding. You will still have losses. I've had fish jump and corals melt for no apparent reason. If you aren't keeping SPS you don't need a skimmer from day one. Heck, even my media canister was a late addition. The only reason I added it was that I wanted the GFO to control a small algae outbreak I was having. Keep your water testing and changes regular and you will be fine. The surest way to make certain you're regular about water changes is to not need to prep a huge volume of water

[Mini-Dude]

I kinda want to start out small cause money is an object.

[aaron1987]

I kinda want to start out small cause money is an object.

 

Highly recommend this approach. It is EXPENSIVE to go 0-60 in this hobby instantly and you don't want to get up to 60 if you don't know what 45 feels like. Get a basic AIO, I'd recommend something between 25-30 gallons so you have a reasonably flexible number of options for stocking. When the time comes to start stocking high light corals (we're talking several months from the time you get the thing wet, most likely) get a hanging high output light of some sort so that if you do end up upgrading to different dimensions your fixture could potentially still work. This is 90% of the way there. If you decide to start keeping expensive, high end SPS, then start looking at a skimmer. Doing it right the first time doesn't have to mean buying everything all at once. It just means that when you're ready to hit the next 'tier' of equipment, you get more than you think you need

[Mini-Dude]

Hmmmmm so do you think that if I did the 20L w/ 15 sump would it be more than the NC price wise?

[aaron1987]

Hmmmmm so do you think that if I did the 20L w/ 15 sump would it be more than the NC price wise?

 

That completely depends on the prices you find them for. I couldn't begin to comment. Keep in mind the plumbing, return pump, light fixture, etc that will accompany the sump'd route that are included with the AIO. It's 6 in one, a half dozen in the other, really. Your initial equipment costs will quickly be outstripped many times by all the other expenses of this hobby. There is less initial risk with the AIO, though. No drilling, no plumbing, lower risk of leaks or overflows - plug and play. Either route can be successful but there's a higher level of knowledge required when a sump is involved.

[Mini-Dude]

I might just go back to my original plan for the NC 28 or the 20L. Its between those two. Yall chose for me

[sogreedy23]

Well none o us are taking care of it.. You are and it's your money at the end of the day.. They both have their pluses and minuses and they've been presented.. It's ultimately your decision on what you want to put your passion and time into.

[Mini-Dude]

Yeah.....hmmmmm.......hmmmmm.....thinking..........23L

 

or 20L

[bitts]

Go read Aaron's thread, violinist, vic skimmers, Helfrichschick's, so on...

helfrichschick's old setup

 

Equipment

Then get ether a 10, 15, or 29. Add a big bucket of salt, a heater, Korrila nano, a par 38 or 2, maybe some sand & if you do a skimmer. Any Hob will do, as long as its not a seaclone. Then a two little fishies reactor with carbon. Later, moving into expert stuff. Add a second reactor. Daisy chaining into the first, with bio pellets. Add your fish. Do your water change's. Keep it as stupid simple as possible. Thats Option 1. Again I'd skip to 20 for the 29, but Eeh.

 

Option 2 would be an all in one.

 

Stocking:

Fish: Clowns, Red bared hi fin & shrimp to replace the Yasha, a Zebra dartfish could be added on the larger tank. That should give you the most bang for the buck on fish. While still being a little different than the average noobie tank. should be able to do this for about $60 + the Shrimp.

 

Inverts: Porcelain crab, as many sexy as you can (unless your thinking zoa's since they will eat them), a lettuce nudi, a Scarlet hermit. Then after you get the hang of things. A Coco worm & a blue Linckia star. (these count as a move into expert care) Should be able to do this for about $75 + $10 per sexy, just keep adding them. Till you have say 7-12.

 

Coral: GSP, Green clove polyps, or Xenia on the back wall. Ric's, frogspawn/hammer/Torch, Candy cane, Blasto's. Figure $20 per head or frag of each. So maybe $200-$300 to start.

 

When the power goes out. Replace all the livestock.

 

Remember Understanding means, Knowing what not to do, what not to combine, what not to complicate & how to sit on your @$$ while keeping your hands out of the bloody tank.

[ajmckay]

When the power goes out. Replace all the livestock.

 

Hahahaha! It's true though... Same goes for QT. If you're not planning on quarantining all new additions it's a game of roulette whether your tank gets infected with something.

 

This thread keeps changing! I'll come back in 3-6 months for progress.

 

Until then, here is my simple setup... This was my first tank, a 29G.

Cost:

- Tank and stand - Free ($100-200 for you unless you feel like converting a FW, which is what I did)

- Quiet one 1200 pump $25

- Old powerhead - free ($25 new)

- Old AC20 - free ($25 new)

- Heater - $30

- Hydrometer, salt mix, thermometer, test kits (ammonia & nitrate), and some tubing - $50

- Tap water - free

- 20lb bag of caribsea live sand $30

- 10lbs of LR $50 ish

- 4lbs of base rock $10

- Black spray paint $3

- T5HO light $65

 

So to get my feet "wet" cost me ~$265, but could cost up to $400 or so unless you can obtain a cheap tank somewhere (a 29g tank is $59 at petsmart now I believe). Adding a simple beginner assortment of livestock would run about $100 or so.

 

That's 2 clowns @20 each, 1 misc fish for $20, a shrimp for $10, 5-10 snails for $10 and 2 cheap $10 frags.

 

Note that I don't condone the use of tap water, even to start a tank. I ran into some pretty serious issues because of that.

[bitts]

lol it wasn't that bad.