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Seagrass

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shinynic

4 or 8? I'd get more just in case there are some losses, I guess. This thread made me want to do grasses in the next tank I set up! lol

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loyalhero90

4 or 8? I'd get more just in case there are some losses, I guess. This thread made me want to do grasses in the next tank I set up! lol

thanks for the suggestion. I bought the 2 star grasses before this post. They are growing really fast though...they are already up to 5 and it has just been maybe a week after putting them in the sand.

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shinynic

thanks for the suggestion. I bought the 2 star grasses before this post. They are growing really fast though...they are already up to 5 and it has just been maybe a week after putting them in the sand.

awesome! I want some :o

 

where'd you get them from, by the way?

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Kiwi

I do have some plants of eel grass for almost 2 weeks now.

one of them has grown a new leaf no, but they are not really growing, i believe.

the substrat is 6cm high in the seagrass area.

 

do you have some tips to make them feel better?

 

Andy

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seabass

They are plants, so they need light and nutrients (phosphate and nitrate) to grow. What type of lighting (and spectrum of bulbs) are you using? What are the levels of phosphate, nitrate, and alkalinity? Supplemented CO2 during daylight hours might help (but you have to be careful of pH drops).

 

It is a delicate balance that I have yet to master. You want good water quality, but some nutrients in the water. You want a DSB, which can fail if not kept clean (so decaying roots can pose a problem). Let us know more about your parameters, and someone might be able to provide you with some help.

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Subsea

 

I would not supplement CO2 unless I had a large plant biomass and fast uptake. In my outside macro grow out systems I focus on water/air interface with aggressive turbulent flow. I do not have to measure anything. The partial pressure of CO2 in air will drive the solubility to saturation. In your home CO2 concentration will be much higher.

Sea grasses grow slow. Take a chill pill.

Patrick

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Subsea

In the case of sea grasses like ell grass, they process nutrients thru the root system. For this reason, they are a superior method to remove organic phosphate bound up in the sand-bed. Similar to cynobacteria, thru enzyme action organic phosphate is converted to inorganic and then assimilated into biomass. In the case of cynobacteria, phosphate is directly exported during gravel vacuming.

 

I use fish to build up detritus in sandbed. Most macro consume 100 molecules of nitrate to one molecule of phosphate. Not so with sea grass.

In terrestrial plants, phosphate grows the fruit and the flower. Depending which plant you use, you may need phosphate input. Often iron is the limiting nutrient for macro growth. In terrestrial plants, when iron is the limiting nutrient, the green leaves take on a yellow tint.

Happy gardening,

Patrick

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seabass

I would not supplement CO2 unless I had a large plant biomass and fast uptake. In my outside macro grow out systems I focus on water/air interface with aggressive turbulent flow. I do not have to measure anything. The partial pressure of CO2 in air will drive the solubility to saturation. In your home CO2 concentration will be much higher.

Fair enough warning. Yeah, use of a timer, and controller with pH probe is warranted if injecting CO2. Here's an article with a link to a thread that discusses CO2 use. However, as you state, they can certainly grow without additional CO2.

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Kiwi

Nitrate did drop from 15 to 5 in two weeks, haven't tested phosphate so far.

ph 8.0 in the morning.

 

Here's a link to the tank thread: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/333485-3gal-zoaplanted-tank/

 

I'm not sure of using co2 directly, because I don't have the opportunity to meter PH all time.

I'm more scared of having not enough nutrients, but of having too much, because I do barely have anything to feed in there.

Maybe I#ll put a mantis in there, but I want to cycle it for some time first.

 

I have been thinking of makeing an calcium-reaktor to put in an carbon source without dropping CO2 levels too much.

Furthermore I'd like to dose some kind of fertilizer into the sand bed near the roots to make them grow.

 

Lightning is 11W pl + 2h of sun shining in the evening directly onto the grass.

 

thank you all for trying to help me :)

 

greetings, Andy

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seabass

Don't worry about using CO2. I just threw that out there as a possible way to improve growth. If you don't have the equipment to control it, it might do more harm than good.

 

You should get a good low range phosphate test kit. If it gets too low, it might be necessary to boost it back up to 0.03ppm. I'd probably shoot for nitrate at closer to 10ppm.

 

However, your biggest problem might be your lighting. Seagrass needs about the same intensity of lighting as a reef tank. However, I'd probably include 6,000K daylight bulbs instead of something higher (which are typically used for reef tanks).

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Kiwi

I have some daylight bulbs at home, 'll do that in some seconds...

 

the test kit is on my to-buy list. (I'll look for some other lamps to hand them to support the main lightning)

can I just feed the bristleworms to get the nitrate higher, or will I have to put in something like MgNO3?

 

a second thing I have red many times was about mud.

Do I have to use the Mud, you can buy, or can I just use some I found in a river? (of youse, I'd cook id befor I'd use it to remove bacteria)

 

(I know, I'm a noob in seagrasses, but there hasen't been too many Information out there :( )

Andy

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seabass

Andy, I'll give you my opinion; but I'd also like to hear what others think about this too.

can I just feed the bristleworms to get the nitrate higher, or will I have to put in something like MgNO3?

More food can lead to more organics in the sand. While this sounds good at first, organics can make a deep sand bed fail. I lean more towards adding a clean source of nutrients to the water.

 

a second thing I have red many times was about mud. Do I have to use the Mud, you can buy, or can I just use some I found in a river? (of youse, I'd cook id befor I'd use it to remove bacteria)

I definitely wouldn't add mud from a river. It could contain pollutants or problematic elements. I'm currently a little skeptical, but would like to know what others feel about some of the refugium muds that are on the market.

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Subsea

I followed the tank build thread. Are we talking about a 3G pico?

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Kiwi

yea, we're talking about a 3g pico… (i know, it is not a perfect tank for seagrasses, but I got them for nothing, and i really love not only the seagrass, but also the algae, hydropolyps and all that other stuff, that grows on these plants. (4 plants, with little seeds on their roots…. (have no picture, sorry :( )

 

I haven't thougt about chemicals and metals that could make problems…. wired, because those Muds you can buy here are way too expnsive…

 

What do you add to refresh nutrients… can you just use freshwater fertilizer, or are you dosing them in other ways?

last, but not least, would you take out dead leafs? have heard different opinions so far.

 

Andy (sorry for my poor english :( )

 

Aunt Edit: how can I see the seagrass is not happy?

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Subsea
I do have some plants of eel grass for almost 2 weeks now.

one of them has grown a new leaf no, but they are not really growing, i believe.

the substrat is 6cm high in the seagrass area.

 

do you have some tips to make them feel better?

 

Andy

 

Andy, replace your sea grass with macro algae. Caulerpa Prolifera has a narrow long blade similiar to ell grass. It would be better suited for your 3G pico.

Patrick

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Kiwi

I do have Caulerpa Prolifera, and it's doing well, but it's just something else ;)

 

I don't see any problem to try keeping seagrass, (whiping out them wouldn't help too much, I think ;) )

 

so I'm doing my best, and hope, they are going to grow ;)

 

There are new leaves sprouting out of the grass, so I got a little bit optimistic

 

Andy

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Amphiprion1

Andy, I'll give you my opinion; but I'd also like to hear what others think about this too.

 

More food can lead to more organics in the sand. While this sounds good at first, organics can make a deep sand bed fail. I lean more towards adding a clean source of nutrients to the water.

 

I definitely wouldn't add mud from a river. It could contain pollutants or problematic elements. I'm currently a little skeptical, but would like to know what others feel about some of the refugium muds that are on the market.

Lately, I think I am of the same opinion. Most grasses seem to only like very mildly enriched substrates at best. Slightly aged sand is likely more than enough for most. Extremely rich substrate may induce plenty of growth at first, but over time, it will start retarding growth and may even start causing death as anoxia ensues (some species are more tolerant than others). This whole process is fairly normal for older beds in the wild, which usually have less diversity in grass species--usually the typical climax species, like Thalassia, Syringodium, etc. In an aquarium, however, it can be a problem for most other inhabitants. Beyond that, it just doesn't look very good when the system starts to favor single seagrass species and cyanobacteria. If left to their own devices, that is essentially what will happen.

 

I now recommend good protein skimming and low nutrient systems for seagrasses. Removal of dead leaves is also something I recommend in order to minimize organics. I also use quite high flow rates, which seems to be largely helpful. Even though I don't like to utilize aggressive mechanical filtration like many, I do recommend at least coarse mechanical filtration. I've used the mesh style filter socks with good results. You'll need some sort of mechanical filtration to minimize leaves getting caught in pumps, like your protein skimmer. This will either seriously degrade performance or cause the pump to seize. In all, the rule of thumb for the typical reef system is now what I recommend for seagrasses.

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Kiwi

I have just added some pictures in the tank thread: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/333485-3gal-zoaplanted-tank/

So I'll take dead leaves Out, when swimming around, I have something about 450l/h in the tank, so quite a bit

When I see anoxia parts, I'd try to put on more flow to the surface of the sandbed…. but There are lots of worms starting to dig around :)

 

Like I've sayed: I#ll have an eye on that, if it works, it'll be fine, if not, I#ll through it out and go with caulerpa ;)

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Amphiprion1

Oh, so you have a Zostera species? What mean temperature are you maintaining? This genera prefer slightly cooler water compared to more commonly available tropical species. Beyond that, I'd imagine care is somewhat similar, though I've never kept any Zostera before.

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Kiwi

I do have them on room temp, 19 °C at this time…. zoanthids love it (well, they look happy to me :) )

(room is 18 °C, love it quite cool, the 1°C is from the pump and lightning ;) )

 

I like this, because I don't need any kind of heater :)

I'd be interested in tropical species though, but there's almost no way to get them here :(

 

But I have to admit I do really love this species.

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Kiwi

One of them ios doing quite well I think…. it got dark green, looking very healthy, and 2 other plants aure sprouting new leaves…. that's good, isn't it?

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seabass

Sounds good to me. It's certainly better than the leaves turning brown and falling off.

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Kiwi

it's happening parallel… some are turning brown (older ones) and new ones aure comeing...

I#m just scared, that there will come off too many

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