Help PicO Aquariums build a better mouse trap!

[cdelicath]

Help Me design a better sump

 

PicO aquariums was started to fill a void in the hobby where other manufactures fell short. My main goal has always been to adapt to the needs of the hobby and it's members. All PicO aquariums are made to order and can be adapted to individual needs on the fly. This also gives me the opportunity to completely redesign my pre configured models quickly.

As recently pointed out by member DP Roberts there may be a way to build a better mouse trap here!

I would like to get input from everyone and collaborate on a new efficient design for the sump area on PicO aquarium units. I don't want to build a product that needs to be modded like most commercial units do . I am here to listen to the community and put those mods in place now. No detail is to small to be overlooked.

[Deleted User 6]

First, I just got one of your 'cuda's and i am extremely pleased with the design and quality. Well done. My comments will all be icing on the cake - the unit itself is already solid as-is.

 

A few initial thoughts:

 

1. Stronger pump options. I'm about to try and install the new Hydor Pico 1200. If it fits, it could be an option to double the gph of the current pump.

2. Option for clear glass on the back of the second chamber for external sump lighting.

3. Clear strip on 3rd chamber to more easily see water level.

4. Better fitting/larger media basket (get on this before that bastard StevieT does - i hate him because he stinks).

5. Perhaps some slots on the bottom of the false wall letting water into chamber 1 (my old BC14 did this and it allowed for better waste removal and flow).

 

I'm sure I'll think of other things as I tweak the unit. Thanks for your ingenuity and work with these products.

 

Also, I'll take one of the new units for free, kthx.

[evilc66]

For the most part, the tanks are great. I do think that a few changes/options would be nice though.

 

One thing that has always bugged me slightly is the high water level in the display. The flow from the pump always hits the front glass hard (at least on the 'Cuda), and there is always salt creep built up directly above the point where it hits the glass. This water height is determined by the first overflow into chamber 2. 1/4" lower would fix that easily.

 

Seeing as some of us are talking about more flow in our tanks, and with the limited supply of small high flow pumps, what about offering an option for a second pump in the first chamber with a bulkhead under the overflow grating? While you are there, open up the hole for the bulkhead slightly. Mine have both been a little on the tight side, making removal a little tough by hand. You may have already caught and changed that though.

[Deleted User 6]

Evil, what are the odds of a pump in C1 clogging due to food/waste/sand constantly being sucked into that chamber? It's been so long since I've used small pumps, I don't really know how they hold up in those conditions.

[cdelicath]

I will get that new unit out as soon as I find my car under all this snow

 

Opening the back of 2 and the side of 3 can be done by cutting the black vinyl to the size needed and peeling the vinyl off. This can absolutely be done before shipped.

My main concern with changing the flow is the rise in water level in the display. adding inlets to the bottom of chamber 1 may help with this. As it is designed now the baffle from chamber 1 to chamber 2 is what sets the water level. Perhaps I could make a dynamic plate to allow adjustment of the display height.

[evilc66]

Evil, what are the odds of a pump in C1 clogging due to food/waste/sand constantly being sucked into that chamber? It's been so long since I've used small pumps, I don't really know how they hold up in those conditions.

 

That's always a possibility, but in the months that I was running that tank, I really didn't have a lot of crap settle in the bottom of that chamber. Your mileage may vary of course.

[cdelicath]

Evil, what are the odds of a pump in C1 clogging due to food/waste/sand constantly being sucked into that chamber? It's been so long since I've used small pumps, I don't really know how they hold up in those conditions.

 

What about moving the media tray to chamber 1 to catch any incoming debris.

[Deleted User 6]

Gotcha. My pico methodology has always been "set it and forget it." I go with a small AIO because I want as little work as possible (obviously not a mantra a noob should hold to, lol). So, any changes I would recommend would accomplish both of these two things: improved performance and simplification of maintenance. Therefore, imo, if adding a second pump would increase the amount of maintenance I had to do (hypothetically), I would prefer not to add the pump.

 

cd, i know you know this but i'll say it anyways - optionizing every feature may not be feasible in the long run on these units. you've only got so much time to devote to these, and customizing every unit could get to be too much for you. i'd rather see a slightly inferior end product, than no end product at all. consumers driving the creative process is great, but only up to a point.

 

What about moving the media tray to chamber 1 to catch any incoming debris.

 

I could see this working. That's what Roberts did, I believe.

[cdelicath]

Gotcha. My pico methodology has always been "set it and forget it." I go with a small AIO because I want as little work as possible (obviously not a mantra a noob should hold to, lol). So, any changes I would recommend would accomplish both of these two things: improved performance and simplification of maintenance. Therefore, imo, if adding a second pump would increase the amount of maintenance I had to do (hypothetically), I would prefer not to add the pump.

 

cd, i know you know this but i'll say it anyways - optionizing every feature may not be feasible in the long run on these units. you've only got so much time to devote to these, and customizing every unit could get to be too much for you. i'd rather see a slightly inferior end product, than no end product at all. consumers driving the creative process is great, but only up to a point.

 

 

 

I could see this working. That's what Roberts did, I believe.

 

Changing the flow is where most problems arise. Changing the sizes, not a big deal at all. I think the most simple solution to the flow issue is a dynamic wall in chamber 1 to adjust the display height.

But then I need to figure out how to pull that off in a simple and sustainable method.

Do I go with a slide method or maybe a thumb screw?

I may have to visit Google sketchup in a few hours and come up with a few things.

Now I am out to clear the 3' of snow that has drifted in our drive

[evilc66]

What about moving the media tray to chamber 1 to catch any incoming debris.

The only issue I see there is that the baffle between chamber 1 and 2 will have to be a lot lower than the strainer to make it effective, and it reduces the overall volume in the sump area. While ATO's should always be used in tanks like this, it makes for a lot less margin of error on top offs.

 

cd, i know you know this but i'll say it anyways - optionizing every feature may not be feasible in the long run on these units. you've only got so much time to devote to these, and customizing every unit could get to be too much for you. i'd rather see a slightly inferior end product, than no end product at all. consumers driving the creative process is great, but only up to a point.

Take it from everyone at the Nanocustoms crew, options are great, except when you are the one building the products. Keep it simple, and cover as many of the bases to make the product as simple, reliable, and effective as possible. It sadly took us a long time to learn that, so learn from us

[RK_tek]

I have had my ridge 15 on a dry(wet? ok, it has FW in it) run for about a month now. I swapped the rio pump out for a tiny azoo that i had sitting around bc it flows about 25 gph more. this immediately raised the DT water level slightly. A dynamic wall to set water height would be a great addition, but then you would have to redesign the media tray as well i believe. My Tenecor 20 has an adjustable overflow with just a piece of plastic with a vertical slot and a nylon screw. with the tension set right in the screw, the height can be adjusted without having to loosen and retighten the screw.

 

my only real improvements for the Ridge are a redesigned media basket, mine sort of tips away from the overflow and water sheets down the wall and not through the basket; and an optional top would be a nice addition. Perhaps something that covers almost the entire tank but leaves a gap over the filter chambers for the cords to exit. Ex, my ridge 15 measures 15x8, so a 14x8 top.

[schgr.cube]

Agreed, keep it simple and you'll be fine. Making the product something that is able to be modified will allow more people to be satisfied with it, as you know reefers are always changing their minds on what they want. If you design something specific for each person, but it isn't able to be changed easily later, then they will not like it down the line when something different strikes their fancy.

 

I love the idea of these tanks, I think they have a lot of potential to easily become the standard for picos. The price tag is a big factor when determining what someone will buy (feel free to send me a sample tank as well ) but compared to the regular picotope, this will win hands down.

[bioload]

First, I just got one of your 'cuda's and i am extremely pleased with the design and quality. Well done. My comments will all be icing on the cake - the unit itself is already solid as-is.

 

A few initial thoughts:

 

1. Stronger pump options. I'm about to try and install the new Hydor Pico 1200. If it fits, it could be an option to double the gph of the current pump.

 

Just a heads up on that pico1200. I got one for my BC because its small and rated at 300gph. It turned out to be VERY weak....the rating is a joke. I put it in my mixing vat to try it out and it hardly moved the water compared to a MJ 1200 or even the 900 that I compared it to. Unless my unit was defective its no where near 300gph. I took mine back.

[Gunbeaux]

I loved my Barracuda... had to give it away to my brother... but I am in the market for another tank and am looking at the Ridge. The only change I would like to see is make tops for the other small tanks like the one for the Cuda. As for other changes I think the other post on this site have said it.. for me keep it the way it is don't fix it if it ain't broke... alot of people like to Twik things to their own likeing Aquariums... Cars....Motorcycles....just to name a few and make it their own... thats why there are differents lighting options. Thanks for a really nice tank.. I will be placing an order for one next month as soon as I figure out which one I want.

[cdelicath]

Thanks guys I am going to look into a new slip connector for the return fitting to make it easier to mod in a new pump and also A way to add a adjustable baffle. I will get something new drawn up and post it here for review.

I have also been kicking around the idea of adding skimmers to the 15" and up units. What do you guys think of that? And if so what type would you like to see?

[evilc66]

If you make the adjustable first wall, make sure the baffle leading into the third hamber is lower than the lowest position of baffle one.

 

If I were to get a skimmer on that size tank, it would be most likely the Hydor Slim Skim Nano. Only needs 12" of water. From what I hear, it performs a lot better than the Aquatic Life skimmer.

[almost]

iv aways wanted a pico where the sump is under the tank and i could slide it out (like a drawer) so there is no equipment showing and 360 viewing

 

like that but bigger of course ^_^

maybe a overflow pipe and return in the center and rock can be put around it.. just a thought..

[cdelicath]

I have been trying to work out the kinks on something like that in my head for quite a few months now.

There are many variables that make it to hard to pull off in pico size though. My variation of it has turned into a drop off style tank and one of these days I will get it down on paper and get a prototype made up.

[DPRoberts]

Help Me design a better sump

As recently pointed out by member DP Roberts there may be a way to build a better mouse trap here!

 

First of all, I just want to point out that I've had 5 different aquariums in the past few years, and my Barracuda is HANDS DOWN the best of them. It's built like a tank, and it looks great. Anyone looking to set up a Pico should definitely consider one of your tanks. My post wasn't intended to make for a "better" design, but one that more suited my particular needs.

 

Secondly, I have to agree with many of the other posters here- we all want something different from our tanks, and I think it would be hard to please everybody with the same design. I think reef keepers have a variety of different ideas about flow rates, light levels, refugium needs, and the benefits of particular types of media. What works for one person might not work for another.

 

For example, consider the 90* elbow and duckbill that are plumbed into the Barracuda. Lots of people would probably prefer to have a tube that's simply curved into the outlet, since the elbow might reduce the flow more than a sweeping curve would. Personally, I like the elbow; this tank is the first AIO I've purchased that included this. To me, it's a sign of good workmanship and attention to detail, and it solves a problem I've had with my other AIOs that had curved tubes- the tube ended up pushing the pump up against the side of the tank and causing vibrations. My 12g AIO does this, and I haven't been able to eliminate the noise yet. I'm sure there's some kind of saltwater-safe pad I can install in there between the pump and the aquarium wall, but that's a hassle I wish I didn't have to go through. As I'm sitting here right now, I can here the annoying hum from my 12g, but my Pico is perfectly silent.

 

Lastly, as others have said, modding is fun. I think most reefers probably like the idea of having a tank that's unique, or at least they'd like to say that had some influence in its design. Personally, I'm glad I have the world's only "PicoAquariums Barracuda with Combined 2-Chamber Mod". I have further plans for this mod - plans that 99.9% of reefers on here would flat out think is stupid, so I'm not even going to say what it is. But if it works, it's going to be AWESOME.

[DPRoberts]

You know what would be nice, though? More accessories. Someone mentioned Harley Davidsons earlier- I've heard that Harley dealers make more money on accessories than they do on motorcycles. I'll bet you could do well selling accessories to your current tank owners. For example, I'd love a really slim ATO the same size and shape as my Barracuda, that could fit right behind it - or, as a spinoff from one of the previous posts, perhaps the ATO could fit under the tank? If you do woodworking, maybe wooden stands or canopies for the larger tanks, etc.

[almost]

. For example, I'd love a really slim ATO the same size and shape as my Barracuda, that could fit right behind it - or, as a spinoff from one of the previous posts, perhaps the ATO could fit under the tank?

 

i really LOVE this idea! if reservoir is the same dimensions of the tank you wouldnt even tell its there, really slimline or if its underneath it would give a nice pedestal look.

[cdelicath]

This has been a long time coming with the redesign. My main concern with these is to keep things simple.

I would love to add accessories to go with the tanks. Lids are available for all tanks and I suppose I can bring back the ATO units. having a skimmer for some of the larger models would also be a potential option.

Earlier this year I removed alot from the website to concentrate on the tanks and keeping the quality up.

Hell I still have over 100 3w LED's and optics sitting in a box If you guys would like to see me bring back the ATO's and start working on a skimmer I will find some time to get it done.

 

Feedback

 

The tray would be adjustable to allow you to set the display height this would allow for the addition of other high flow pumps also

[Monochrome5]

I'm in the market for a pico currently, so I figured I would throw my two cents in

 

I like what others have suggested about adding a fuge window in the back. Just about every AOI out there gets modded into a fuge. I know it's pretty simple to cut stuff off the back, but it never looks professional, ya know? Sure no one sees the back... but I'm a perfectionist like that haha.

 

A second baffle (at the bottom) can't hurt. More flow, plus it helps out with crud at the bottom. And an ATO would rock. The pedestal suggestion sounds really neat, though I'm guessing it would be an engineering pain. Either way, an ATO would be really nice.

 

I know it's a hassle trying to stock every option under the sun, but maybe carrying the big ones would increase sales a bit?

 

PS: DHaut wants you to send his free tank to me

[Gunbeaux]

I like the ideas.. and I am a Harley rider they do make more money with the accessories than the sales of motorcycles. I was thinking of setting up a 2.5 in my office to replace the Barracuda but rethinking and will wait and get one from you I am looking forward to the changes to come. I also like the Idea of a ready made ATO... I am a clutz when it comes to DIY stuff.

[Almsfan]

Im leaning to buying a Ridge model. An AIO would be great. Would love the idea of having a skimmer ready to go if i decided on using one down the road.