clowns & seahorses

[7seas]

Hello everyone,

 

I recently read a post in which a member was toying with the idea of clownfish and seahorses in the same tank. I posted there but as someone else pointed out he/she was last online a long time ago.

 

Just wanted to know if anyone else has tried that?? I know clowns are fast and furious when it comes to feeding in comparison with the graceful drifting seahorses. But I've no idea how they'd react to each other as I've never tried keeping them together.

 

Anyone got any opinions on the topic?

[Zircon]

Hello everyone,

 

I recently read a post in which a member was toying with the idea of clownfish and seahorses in the same tank. I posted there but as someone else pointed out he/she was last online a long time ago.

 

Just wanted to know if anyone else has tried that?? I know clowns are fast and furious when it comes to feeding in comparison with the graceful drifting seahorses. But I've no idea how they'd react to each other as I've never tried keeping them together.

 

Anyone got any opinions on the topic?

 

The seahorse will probably starve. They are so slow at eating but its fun to watch. Seahorses require a significant lower temperature of 72 degrees to prevent disease. This temp difference will also affect the clownfish since its used to living in a warmer climate. If your going to keep a seahorse you should build a species only tank.

[Mustang Boy]

The seahorse will probably starve. They are so slow at eating but its fun to watch. Seahorses require a significant lower temperature of 72 degrees to prevent disease. This temp difference will also affect the clownfish since its used to living in a warmer climate. If your going to keep a seahorse you should build a species only tank.

 

 

there are tropical seahorse species that live in tropical temperature water that can do great at 78 degree temperatures like we keep our reef tanks at. if you are planning on doing this with a small tank i would advise against it but i know several people with decently sized tanks who have clowns and seahorses together successfully. it would also depend on which species, i dont believe any of the larger species of clowns would be safe because they are usually much more aggressive.

[7seas]

Hi guys and thanks for your replies.

 

No I am not sure I want to put the delicate seahorses in with the clowns but its interesting to know if it works. Like Zircon said I dont want the feeding to affect the seahorses.

 

Mustang boy, do you know what species of clowns and seahorses they have and what size aquarium they're doing? If i ever do it, it would be with A.ocellaris.. What do you guys think?

[Rleepremier]

The only problem with mixing these 2 in a small tank is that seahorses are very slow eaters while clowns are pigs. So it would probably end up with the seahorses starving. I also looked into clowns and horses at my LFS but was advised to choose 1 not both. Not a problem in a bigger tank as u can feed alot more with no problems.

[Mustang Boy]

they are occelaris clowns and they are reidi seahorses that were specifically collected from an area that has tropical temp water all the time so that they would be fine in tropical temps. this tank also has a mandarin, 2 pipefish, and a pair of shrimp fish and they are all eating frozen and ive watched them all eat several times during feedings. the tank is a 65g which was just upgraded within the last few months from a 30g half circle tank.

[7seas]

Wow that is really something. All of them in a 30 gallon living peacefully. But thats really interesting though. The right temperature and tank size is important and it is not such an impossible myth as most people think or say it is. That is what I wanted to know.

[Bongo Shrimp]

There is no species of seahorse that can be kept at temps above 74F. They need to be and should be kept at temps below 74F to prevent disease like mentioned above.

 

Look here, second page:

http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/c...e/careguide.pdf

 

Keeping seahorses at a temp higher than 74F puts them at an extreme risk for diseases and can significantly reduce their chances of long term survival.

 

Also, because clown fish are so active, it is not generally recommended to keep seahorses with them. Seahorses need a low flow, and quiet environment free from any potential harassment. And plus as stated above, the clowns will certainly out compete the seahorses when it comes to food.

 

Take a look at this seahorse tankmate guide. it is a very useful, general guideline for what you should and should not put with seahorses.

http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/t...tankmates.shtml

[Mustang Boy]

she doesnt have a whole ton of flow in the tank but its not exactly a tiny bit of flow, she is using a small tunze powerhead(not sure on size) and her return pump and that is all for the 65g, the seahorses have been living in the tropical temperatures from several years and she told me that the LFS owner(sponsor for our club and one of the most knowledgeable reefers ive ever met) ordered them specifically from her from a source that collected them from a tropical environment so that they would be perfectly fine for her tank

[7seas]

Bongo shrimp, I know what you're saying. Its something common that people say all the time. But what I wanted to know was if anybody ever tried it and how it went. So i am surprised and happy to read the information that Mustang boy has given.

[Bongo Shrimp]

Basically it comes down to you can do whatever you want. You need to decide if you want to do what's right by the animals or not. It's not just that people say that, it's that that is what should be done when keeping seahorses.

 

Sure, people try it. Like those geniuses that try putting seahorses with cuttle fish. So, do people put seahorses with cuttle fish?- yes. Should they?- no. What ends up happening?- the seahorses get eaten.

 

This case is not as extreme but it's the same concept.

[FishEyeAquaculture]

I am aware of the exact tank that mustang boy is referring to. Great set up and all the seahorses and pair of spawning ocellaris have been together for years.

As far as the temperature comment of not being able to withstand temps above 74. This is incorrect. I have the great opportunity to be great friends with a seahorse farmer in Riverview, FL. We currently help each other out with our facilities when one needs a little time away with family. She has a fully functioning seahorse only farm and all systems are between 78-79.

[Bongo Shrimp]

Like I said before, you can, and people do keep seahorses at higher temps but it is no as good for their health. It leaves them exposed to diseases in even infection.

[faerl]

On the temp thing. Seahorses can survive just fine in temps above 74 but it's the diseases that multiply badly. Now, if you have a huge seahorse farm with heavily filtration it's possible they can get around that (they survive in higher temps in the ocean which has a great deal of filtration) but for the average aquarium. Huge risk I wouldn't take.

[Fishfreak218]

Like I said before, you can, and people do keep seahorses at higher temps but it is no as good for their health. It leaves them exposed to diseases in even infection.

what bongo is saying is correct. Although many people have success keeping tropical seahorses @ temps of 76-78, it leaves a higher chance of your seahorses getting a bacterial infection.

 

I used to keep seahorses and lost them all to an infection (introduced a seperate species trying to beat the odds. I lost all 6 of my horses.

6 x $70= $420.

yeaaah bad call. but it is possible

[Bongo Shrimp]

And you know, with the messy clowns adding to the bio-load, it only makes it more likely for infections and diseases to develop.

[Mustang Boy]

according to my quick research on H. reidi they are found in many tropical places(Source Wikipedia) and according to the average temperatures of the waters around over 3/4 of the locations have average temperatures in both summer and winter above 74 degrees which would show that they are living quite happily and healthily in temperatures above 74 all year round, if they are living in the wild at these temperatures constantly i would say their immune system is stronger than those that live in the cooler temperatures. (source for temperatures here) Note the average temperatures for Jamaica summer: 85, winter: 80 so even in the winter these temperatures are well above the 74 degree mark

 

i dont wanna sound combative just showing the facts

[Bongo Shrimp]

However that may be true, they are in an ocean, not a however many gallon tank. The game changes when the amount of water is confined. In keeping temps low, it doesn't allow bacteria and other things to survive. In the ocean there are other natural combatants to these things.

 

Kinda like how there are never ocean-wide ick or hair algae outbreaks.

[faerl]

...which would show that they are living quite happily and healthily in temperatures above 74 all year round, if they are living in the wild at these temperatures constantly i would say their immune system is stronger than those that live in the cooler temperatures....

 

Or.. the amount of water in the ocean creates enough natural filtration to make up for the higher temps...

 

I don't think anyone argues that most horses live in and handle the temps above 74 quite well. It's purely an issue with with water quality at higher temps. Diseases that seahorses are susceptible to tend to multiply at temps above 74 and the filtration is the standard aquarium isn't good enough to weed it out. The ocean (and apparently some seahorse farms) provides much better filtration.

[bdehlin]

Just do what we're planning on doing and have a reef tank, and another seperate seahorse tank later down the road. It is technically possible to keep clowns and seahorses together, but I would highly advise against it. The clowns are greedy eaters that require a higher temp and salinity when compared to seahorses. I personally wouldn't put them together, though I've seen it done.

[Bongo Shrimp]

Just do what we're planning on doing and have a reef tank, and another seperate seahorse tank later down the road. It is technically possible to keep clowns and seahorses together, but I would highly advise against it. The clowns are greedy eaters that require a higher temp and salinity when compared to seahorses. I personally wouldn't put them together, though I've seen it done.

 

This is what I did. Plus, the clowns would love an anemone which can't go with seahorses. Or you might want corals which can't go with seahorses. That way you can have all the coral and reef fish you want, with the seahorses safe with a few friends and maybe pipefish.

[Mustang Boy]

i will concede that the diseases that can harm seahorses are more dangerous at higher temps but i would think that as long as you have a good disease free tank and you are done adding livestock it should be safe to start raising the temp to a tropical level(unless you have started there) because if they are not currently sick and you do not plan on adding any new creatures i think it would be safe to assume that all of the bad bacteria would be non existent especially if the tank has been at tropical temps the entire time. am i right or is my logic flawed?

[faerl]

i will concede that the diseases that can harm seahorses are more dangerous at higher temps but i would think that as long as you have a good disease free tank and you are done adding livestock it should be safe to start raising the temp to a tropical level(unless you have started there) because if they are not currently sick and you do not plan on adding any new creatures i think it would be safe to assume that all of the bad bacteria would be non existent especially if the tank has been at tropical temps the entire time. am i right or is my logic flawed?

 

The logic is flawed. It's a good plan in theory... but there are two issues with it. For one, the bacteria propagates faster at higher temps. Even if left at the lower temp it doesn't mean the bacteria is gone, just low levels and/or dormant so that when you raise it could go up again. Secondly, and this I think is the more important part, how often do the 'plans' in this hobby work out. I'd like to meet the guy who thought he was done adding things to his tank that had that last for more than 9 months or so. Things die, something cool showed up at the LFS etc. Even with water changes we add new bacteria to the tank (more so for those of us that don't mix our own).

 

There's no guarantee that if you run them at higher temps that for sure bacteria will get them. It just increases the odds heavily. There are enough issues with keeping seahorses under ideal conditions, why risk it with non ideal ones (especially when seahorses run $70+ a pop).

[faerl]

This is what I did. Plus, the clowns would love an anemone which can't go with seahorses. Or you might want corals which can't go with seahorses. That way you can have all the coral and reef fish you want, with the seahorses safe with a few friends and maybe pipefish.

 

Amusing note is that they recommend not keeping pipefish with them either. Apparently (and I've only read a bit on this) each seahorse species has its own genetic weakness to certain diseases. Effectively they carry them with them (think chicken pox). So, when you mix seahorse species you run a risk of one spreading it to another that isn't immune (think, Europeans wiping out the Indians with said chicken pox). I don't know what the odds are, I've heard more stories of successful mixing than unsuccessful. However, I've seen some stories of people who had seahorses for quite a while, added a different breed and then lost all of them. I suspect it has a lot to do with which type was mixed with what (different areas of the ocean maybe?) but I doubt anyone's done any studies on it.

 

Pipefish, which many sources I read before said were good tank mates are close enough to seahorses in genealogy that apparently they *can* have or receive the same issue. Not as likely as with another seahorse species but still.

[Fishfreak218]

Amusing note is that they recommend not keeping pipefish with them either. Apparently (and I've only read a bit on this) each seahorse species has its own genetic weakness to certain diseases. Effectively they carry them with them (think chicken pox). So, when you mix seahorse species you run a risk of one spreading it to another that isn't immune (think, Europeans wiping out the Indians with said chicken pox). I don't know what the odds are, I've heard more stories of successful mixing than unsuccessful. However, I've seen some stories of people who had seahorses for quite a while, added a different breed and then lost all of them. I suspect it has a lot to do with which type was mixed with what (different areas of the ocean maybe?) but I doubt anyone's done any studies on it.

 

Pipefish, which many sources I read before said were good tank mates are close enough to seahorses in genealogy that apparently they *can* have or receive the same issue. Not as likely as with another seahorse species but still.

Happened to me! I Mixed two species from the same breeder (erectus and kuda from seahorsesource.com) ) and they all wound up dead. BUT for anyone looking to get captive bred seahorses you need to go that site. I've visited his breeding set-up and it really is impressive. Very healthy seahorses!