led array help

[chefely]

Hello everyone.

i just received 90 XPE royal blue and 30 XPG cool white. i like the deep blue look.

3 X 10" by 6" heat sink.

i wand to run the 3 heat sink individually. with 2 drivers for each the blue and the white.

heat sink will be cooled by a 6"AC fan a little noisy no problem as its an inwall tank.

i am stuck on the type of the drivers i need and how to run the led parallel or not,with resistors or not.I don't mind buying more led if need be.

with a powerful fan i think i could place 30 or more led per heat sink.

i will be calling MeanwellUSA tomorrow and see if they can give some ideas on their drivers.

i could get XML T6 if i need to.

[evilc66]

It's always strongly recommended that LEDs be wired in series, but parallel wiring can be done also, as long as you understand the risks. There are drivers out there now that can support high voltage series arrays, like the new TRP drivers that we started to carry.

 

Can you offer a little more detail about your proposed setup and the tank it's going over?

[chefely]

what i want is 3 individual setup going over a 180glns tank.

each setup would have a 10"X6" heatsink cooled by an ac fan, and i want to place as many as 30-40 led on it driven by 2 drivers.

the reason for 3 individual is that i plan on having them rum on a different timers. (1ST set come on at noon 2nd set which is middle come on at 2pm and the 3rd comes on at 4pm. they will go off at different times to,at 8pm for the 3rd at 9pm the middle and the last at 10pm.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

what i want is 3 individual setup going over a 180glns tank.

each setup would have a 10"X6" heatsink cooled by an ac fan, and i want to place as many as 30-40 led on it driven by 2 drivers.

the reason for 3 individual is that i plan on having them rum on a different timers. (1ST set come on at noon 2nd set which is middle come on at 2pm and the 3rd comes on at 4pm. they will go off at different times to,at 8pm for the 3rd at 9pm the middle and the last at 10pm.

 

You are limiting yourself to old ways of thought with MH and T5!!!

 

LEDs can do sunrise/sunset by dimming from 0-100% (as long as your powersupply driver supports it)

 

you could go with a few HLG 185 B models and connect it to a controller and you will have a very nice sunrise/sunset.

 

I have a 180g, and I was thinking the same thing you were, 3 "modules" but ending up going 144 LEDs on one fixture.

 

 

Here is what I would recommend

 

HLG-185-54 B

this can handle 5 parallel series of 15 XP-E royal blue = 75

 

HLG-100-54-B

this can handle 2 parallel series of 15 XP-E royal blue = 30

 

HLG-150-54-B

this can handle 3 parallel series of 15 XP-G cool white = 45

 

 

That gives you 150 LEDs which is more than enough for 180g to have SPS on the sand

30%CW to 70%RB which will give you very blue color that your looking for

and the drivers are all 10v dimmable so you can adjust from there.

 

You then connect them to a controller to get a nice sunrise sunset to impress the ladies.

 

Let me know if you have questions, you will get more answers here than you will from meanwell.

[redfishsc]

Milad, other than the RKL/RKE systems with the ALC module (0-10v ramping ability)...... what are you suggesting we use for sunrise/sunset?

 

Any driver that accepts 0-10v reference voltage for dimming will allow this (or the pwm models with a programmed arduino).

 

 

But the only really simple way to get the sunrise/sunset dimming I am aware of is the RKL or RKE, which isn't cheap by any stretch.

 

I'm hoping you have found a simpler slow-sunrise 0-10v option?

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Milad, other than the RKL/RKE systems with the ALC module (0-10v ramping ability)...... what are you suggesting we use for sunrise/sunset?

 

Any driver that accepts 0-10v reference voltage for dimming will allow this (or the pwm models with a programmed arduino).

 

 

But the only really simple way to get the sunrise/sunset dimming I am aware of is the RKL or RKE, which isn't cheap by any stretch.

 

I'm hoping you have found a simpler slow-sunrise 0-10v option?

 

 

You can use apex also

[chefely]

my 1st thought on 3 setup is not only sunrise sunset, but mobile individual setup.

if i go with with a full setup would i be able to use only 2 drivers that will run let say for 90 royal blue and 30 cool white.

do i need resistors or something else.how would i diagram the whole setup.

i have another led setup that i did a couple years age using buck pucks and that was easy.but LED setup came a long ways.

how else would i go with dimming the whole setup,

I love the deep blue look.

 

thanx

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

my 1st thought on 3 setup is not only sunrise sunset, but mobile individual setup.

if i go with with a full setup would i be able to use only 2 drivers that will run let say for 90 royal blue and 30 cool white.

do i need resistors or something else.how would i diagram the whole setup.

i have another led setup that i did a couple years age using buck pucks and that was easy.but LED setup came a long ways.

how else would i go with dimming the whole setup,

I love the deep blue look.

 

thanx

 

You gota run 3 power supplies like I mentioned above if you want 100% dimming. Otherwise the 250w versions of the meanwell only dim 50% for some reason.

 

and yes you should use resistors and fuses.

 

here is an example of the wiring with 250w but they only dim 50%

[chefely]

please correct me if i am wrong

my 1st question is what is the difference between parallel and series setup?

 

I was on nanotuners and thomas website and this is what i found.

for having my setup dimmable,running at max 1050Ma.

 

TRC-040S105DS could run me 10 CW dimmable Led at 1050 Ma (each is priced a third of (TRC-120S105DT)

or

TRC-150S140DT could run me 10 CW dimmable Led at 1400 Ma

TRC-120S105DT could run me 30 dimmable RB Led at 1050Ma

 

if all this is correct and my setup was either 3 separate heat sink with 30 RB and 10 CW on each that requires me to have 2 drivers per setup.

i cannot find a driver that could run me all 60 RB together.And i dont think i will be saving any money going with one whole setup,because TRC-040S105DS X3 is the same price at one TRC-120S105DT for running the CW Led.

[evilc66]

You won't be able to run a single driver for all 60 RB LEDs at 1050mA. Even TRP's 200W driver (which we can order, but don't stock) can only manage about 52 LEDs. You would have to use a pair of 120W drivers to run all of the blues.

[chefely]

You won't be able to run a single driver for all 60 RB LEDs at 1050mA. Even TRP's 200W driver (which we can order, but don't stock) can only manage about 52 LEDs. You would have to use a pair of 120W drivers to run all of the blues.

 

I am thinking if i cannot drive all 60 of of one driver.So i will go ahead and set it as 3 different setups.

 

Use TRC-040S105DS to run in series 10 XPG cool white at max 1050Ma (is that the right driver or is it too low i like to have a driver that run the led at maybe 1300Ma)

 

Use TRC-120S105DT to run in series 30 XPE royal blue at max of 1050Ma right?

should i use 900ma fuse for the blue led (because max drive for them is 1000Ma)

 

help would be appreciated.

[evilc66]

The 40W driver will be fine if you want to run at 1050mA max. Depending on your tank depth, fixture height, and lenses, that may be more than enough to get the job done. If you want to run 10 @ 1300mA you would need to go with the 75W 1400mA driver. It's almost double the cost for another 250mA.

 

The 120W 1050mA driver is perfect for the XP-Es. Don't bother with fuses. The LEDs will blow faster than the fuse will if something were to go wrong.

[chefely]

Thank you.

i will be using those 2 drivers TRC-040S105DS and TRC-120S105DT to run 40 led.

next i need wire size between the led?

any 10V potentiometer should work?

i have no problem playing with the height of the fixture as the tank is an in-wall.

will the life of the royal blue Led be shortened if i drive them to their max? and some (1050Ma)

 

You telling me no fuse, so if something is to go wrong the led will die 1st do you mean all the led because they are all on the same line or if one dies the rest just go out till the bad one is replaced?

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

The 40W driver will be fine if you want to run at 1050mA max. Depending on your tank depth, fixture height, and lenses, that may be more than enough to get the job done. If you want to run 10 @ 1300mA you would need to go with the 75W 1400mA driver. It's almost double the cost for another 250mA.

 

The 120W 1050mA driver is perfect for the XP-Es. Don't bother with fuses. The LEDs will blow faster than the fuse will if something were to go wrong.

 

You must be using some slow fuses there evil. Are you not looking at fast acting fuses?

 

Thank you.

i will be using those 2 drivers TRC-040S105DS and TRC-120S105DT to run 40 led.

next i need wire size between the led?

any 10V potentiometer should work?

i have no problem playing with the height of the fixture as the tank is an in-wall.

will the life of the royal blue Led be shortened if i drive them to their max? and some (1050Ma)

 

You telling me no fuse, so if something is to go wrong the led will die 1st do you mean all the led because they are all on the same line or if one dies the rest just go out till the bad one is replaced?

 

For wire you should look at 22awg pre tinned 600v wire

Also what optics are you using? What is the dimensions of the tank? That will determine the height off the water.

[chefely]

its over a 180 glns tank.

40 degree optics.

slow and fast acting fuses?

Milad why do you prefer paralleled rather than series.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

its over a 180 glns tank.

40 degree optics.

slow and fast acting fuses?

Milad why do you prefer paralleled rather than series.

 

Well I value my life and my families life.

 

Lets say you are using a dozen meanwell ELN-60-48-D to power all your lights. They have a high rush so they can heat up the wires and start a fire. House burns down, fish die, etc.

 

Lets say you went with something that has very high voltage but low current (anything above 48 I would consider dangerous, others even say 40). If you end up touching the bare wires long enough, your done.

(take a peak at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage)

 

So I do not prefer parallel, I rather do series but I rather live to see my fishes grow. Yes as evil said, there are issues with parallel builds, yes it takes some tweaking to make sure everything is good but all that doesnt compare to what could happen if you went full series on a 180g.

 

I have a 180g and im doing a parallel build on mine instead of a full series build.

 

As far as fuses, regular fuses will melt - fast acting fuses will just pop.

 

Since you are doing a 180g like mine, here is a link to my build:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthrea...0324#post570324

[evilc66]

Thank you.

i will be using those 2 drivers TRC-040S105DS and TRC-120S105DT to run 40 led.

next i need wire size between the led?

any 10V potentiometer should work?

i have no problem playing with the height of the fixture as the tank is an in-wall.

will the life of the royal blue Led be shortened if i drive them to their max? and some (1050Ma)

 

You telling me no fuse, so if something is to go wrong the led will die 1st do you mean all the led because they are all on the same line or if one dies the rest just go out till the bad one is replaced?

Anything from 24awg to 18awg will work fine for conections between LEDs. 18awg should be a minimum for LED to driver runs if they are of any considerable length.

 

There is no harm in running the LEDs to their max, PROVIDED that the LED temperatures are within spec. Most of the builds that are done use heatsinks that are overkill, and do a very good job at keeping temperatures down.

 

If an LED pops, two things could happen. Failure mode 1 is where the LED fails shorted. This will just turn off the LED, and the rest of the string will still be lit. Failure mode 2 is where the LED fails open, and is the most common failure. When this happens, the entire string goes off, but only the one LED is dead.

 

Also, you don't get potentiometers by voltage rating. You look for resistance. For the TRP drivers, 20K ohms is ideal, but 10K pots can work, and are easy to get at Radioshack if necessary. We are trying to get some 20K pots up on the site for the drivers.

 

Well I value my life and my families life.

 

Lets say you are using a dozen meanwell ELN-60-48-D to power all your lights. They have a high rush so they can heat up the wires and start a fire. House burns down, fish die, etc.

 

Lets say you went with something that has very high voltage but low current (anything above 48 I would consider dangerous, others even say 40). If you end up touching the bare wires long enough, your done.

(take a peak at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage)

 

So I do not prefer parallel, I rather do series but I rather live to see my fishes grow. Yes as evil said, there are issues with parallel builds, yes it takes some tweaking to make sure everything is good but all that doesnt compare to what could happen if you went full series on a 180g.

 

I have a 180g and im doing a parallel build on mine instead of a full series build.

 

As far as fuses, regular fuses will melt - fast acting fuses will just pop.

 

Since you are doing a 180g like mine, here is a link to my build:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthrea...0324#post570324

 

I find it very funny that everyone is getting so bent out of shape about high voltage DC, but no one is bringing up the fact that there is a 120/240v AC source on the other end of the driver that can do just as much damage, but no one seems to think it's a concern. Also, as a community, we have been doing MH retros for years that involve voltages north of 4KV, and no one is as concerned. Regardless of the voltage and the source, common sense should be used around any voltage source. You shouldn't be sticking bare fingers into any live circuit. Get over it.

 

Fast acting fuses will still be slower than an LED bond wire popping. Have you seen fuses on the LED side of any commercial LED product of any type? No. The fuses are typically on the power supply side.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

I find it very funny that everyone is getting so bent out of shape about high voltage DC, but no one is bringing up the fact that there is a 120/240v AC source on the other end of the driver that can do just as much damage, but no one seems to think it's a concern. Also, as a community, we have been doing MH retros for years that involve voltages north of 4KV, and no one is as concerned. Regardless of the voltage and the source, common sense should be used around any voltage source. You shouldn't be sticking bare fingers into any live circuit. Get over it.

 

You realize your customers cover the 120/240v on the AC with wire nuts, covers etc. In their mind, the DC side with exposed wires is "safe". On the LED side there is nothing covering the bare wires. Thats what I have a concern with. I'm not going to encourage a DIY to buy something that has exposed wires which can potentially kill them. If they were sealed in a fixture, that would be a different story.

 

You may say that teaching them not to get near the bare wires is a better option but what happens when a family member or a tank sitter doesn't know?

 

 

chefely asked for my opinion and I gave it to him he can make his own decision on what he wants to do.

[evilc66]

You realize your customers cover the 120/240v on the AC with wire nuts, covers etc.

Really? Are you 100% sure that every customer uses wire nuts on the AC side? I'll bet dollars to donuts that there have been a number of builds that have had that AC side exposed during "testing". While using wire nuts may be the right thing to do, I'll bet it's not done all the time.

 

In their mind, the DC side with exposed wires is "safe".

If that's the case, then education is a must. Any voltage can be dangerous in the right situation.

 

On the LED side there is nothing covering the bare wires. Thats what I have a concern with. I'm not going to encourage a DIY to buy something that has exposed wires which can potentially kill them. If they were sealed in a fixture, that would be a different story.

Well, if that's your arguement, then any Meanwell ELN or HLG driver (the common ones, although there are other drivers) with an output voltage of 48-54v should also be considered dangerous. Voltages over about 40v can break the skin under the right circumstances. Get that current flowing across the heart, and you are just as dead/hurt. Education about the risks involved with AC and DC voltages, high or low, is exactly what should be done.

 

You may say that teaching them not to get near the bare wires is a better option but what happens when a family member or a tank sitter doesn't know?

Honestly, it should be up to the builder to protect both the fixture, and the people around it from harm. Again, it comes down to education.

 

 

chefely asked for my opinion and I gave it to him he can make his own decision on what he wants to do.

Fair. You are welcome to your opinion, as am I. He can decide for himself which will be a more appropriate direction to go.

[chefely]

thank you guys for the information.

i think i will be using those 2 drivers TRC-040S105DS and TRC-120S105DT to run 40 led. to each array.And this way it will give the opportunity to be able to place the array any position i need over the tank as it is not as heavy as a larger one.

i will use 22awg pre tinned 600v wires, ac 6" fans and thinking of getting someone to have an Arduino done for me,try and find 20K ohms pot.

 

next question how hard to work with Arduino,would my setup work with an Arduino.

[evilc66]

You would need to create an analog voltage from a pwm output to get smoother operation from the drivers. It sounds hard, but it's really not. All it is, is a resistor and capacitor wired as a low pass filter. Multiple filters can be used if you need to smooth the output more. Beyond that, it's pretty simple. It's really easy to find snippets of code online to find out how to make something function.

[chefely]

Ok folks here i am thinking back to square one finding the driver to suit my need.

 

i spoke with nanotuners this morning and they dont carry any of the drivers i need.

the same 0 inventory from thompson electronics and its a couple month to have them down in the marked,only if someone place a large order,...

 

help.

maybe i should look into meanwell drivers.

[evilc66]

Were we just out of stock? Or were you looking at something that we haven't started carrying yet? We should be able to get anything that TRP stocks.

[chefely]

Were we just out of stock? Or were you looking at something that we haven't started carrying yet? We should be able to get anything that TRP stocks.

THESE TWO

TRC-040S105DS and TRC-120S105DT

 

and i asked fot

TRC-0750S140DT

TRC200S105DT

TRC150S140DT

 

No luck with any of them.

[evilc66]

The first two are items that we are stocking, but may be out of. The remainder are special order parts. We can get them fairly quickly usually, if TRP has stock themselves.