Help! My first nano!

[mimie]

Hie all,

 

Firstly, thank you Mr.Marks for a great site !

 

Now, onto the main course of business...

 

I recently purchased a 20G setup. It came with the following:

 

1) 15watt - 18" fluorescent lighting

2) Penguin bio-wheel filter

3) 5" heater

 

I have 1 bicolor pseudochromis, 1 juvenile maroon clown, 1 juvenile true percula, 5 turbo snails, 1 blue linckia starfish, I purple sebae anenome, 1 brown button polyp, 1 open green brain and approx. 3 lbs. of LR.

 

I feed them marine flakes and 1/2 a teaspoon of phytoplankton daily. I do 1% water changes weekly and add 1/2 teaspoon of iodine at every change for the well being of my anenome.

 

Temperature is 77 at nite and 80 during the day.

 

Yesterday, I noticed my anenome shrinking in size. He has done it before when I made a 25% water change. Ever since, I've resorted to smaller and more frequent changes. He also has some de-coloration going on. Seem like a light shade of brown on the tentacles. Could it be algae? Perhaps my new water change regiment will eventually take care of it.

 

Now, what do I need to do to make this a success story? I have started reading a LOT of articles from the net and have been getting mixed messages on some topics. I mean that at this point, I'm just overwhelmed with info.

 

Therefore, I implore all the marine guru's, please hear my prayers...

[HuBu]

did you buy it from a reefer? the tank set up i mean, because you dont have enough live rock to handle the bioload from your fish and anenome. imo, you should cut down to feeding them every other day. just wondering, how can you do a 1% water change, thats 0.2 gal. you might want to around 10% every wk. your lighting is also low.

[mimie]

Thanks for the prompt reply HuBu!

 

Sorry, I meant 10% every weeks. Sorry, typo! What can I do with the lighting? Do I need to change the tube to one of those specialized tubes? Like Marine-Glo?

 

Anything on powerheads?

 

And i did not buy from a reefer...actually, I dont know if PetLand is a certified reefer.

 

And I've just ordered another 5 lbs. of FIJI LR.

 

XoXO,

Mimie

[HuBu]

hmm since the tank is a 20g tank. youll need somewhere around 20lbs of live rock in the tank. do you have any sand in there right now? you bought it from petland? was it already an established tank when you bought it? because if it wasnt then you would need to cycle the tank, meaning you would have to take all the fish and the anenome out of the tank or else they will die. as for lighting, it really depends on what you want to keep, if you basically just want soft corals then you can go with 2 36w PC or even 2 55w PC if you can afford it.

[mimie]

Dear Hubu,

 

Thanks once again!

 

Actually, I have already cycled the tank with some LR/LS and a couple of damsels.

 

20lbs. is a lot of rock dont you think. It'll cover my entire tank! My poor fish wont have place to swim ((

 

 

And powerheads?

ANy comments on the filter?

[Crakeur]

the rule of thumb is about 1 pound of live rock per gallon. The rock won't take up too much space. If you want to go with less rock you probably can but you should be prepared for more frequent water changes. As for the fish swimming, most fish like the caves and hiding places that live rock provides. If you go with 20lbs of live rock you can remove the filter cartridge. I kept the biowheel in mine until I installed a micro-chiller and I had little problems with the wheel but others here might tell tell you to lose it. The live rock and live sand, if the right quantities are used, will be more than enough filtration. You didn't mention live sand in your posts so I will ask - how much live sand do you have?

 

The lighting should be changed to powercompact lighting (or metal halide if you want to keep sps corals and clams). To convert to powercompact lighting you can buy a retro-fit kit and install them yourself (not hard at all. I did it so it has to be easy) or you can buy a canopy that already has the powercompact installed.

 

You might also want to consider a powerhead for additional water flow. I'm not sure how much you should use for a 20 gallon tank (again, others here will know better than me) but you might even want to consider getting two powerheads for better water movement.

 

the low price on petland's livestock isn't worth the risk you take when you put their fish in your tank. shop on the internet or at a store that specializes in fish

[Crakeur]

I forgot to welcome you to the boards and to the hobby. Welcome, we are a nice bunch but beware, some of us bite.

[mimie]

Thanks for the elaborate info Crakeur!

 

 

I have approx. 2 inches of LS.

 

Q: Why is there a need for 2 powerheads? Don't you think it will cause a hurricane, earthquake and thunderstorm in my tank?

 

Q: I will not keep too many corals. Maybe another brain or two, a feather duster, some gorgonians and a couple more polyps. Do I still need to invest in a separate lighting kit? How about trading in my single tube housing for a double?

 

Q: How many fished more can I keep? Does adding cleaner/fire shrimp add a lot to the bio load?

 

Q: Do you recommend a bigger filter of the same kind? (The one that hangs on the back, with the bio wheel)

 

Xoxo,

MIMIe

[Crakeur]

there isn't necessarily a need for two powerheads. The idea behind two would be to create waterflow in areas of the tank that might not get it with one powerhead.

 

some gorgonians are low light and might fare well with the lighting you currently have. Feather dusters will also be fine in that light. Personally I don't like the dusters but when they thrive they make for a real nice addition to the tank. Some polyps need more light than others so you will need to do a little research before buying anything.

 

The key thing is to take things slowly with the tank. Doing too much at once will cause stress in the tank and will put the livestock at risk. You're better off adding the live rock, letting it sit for a month, adding a fish or two OR a couple of inverts (shrimp are great - cleaners are a lot of fun, peppermint for any aiptaisa).

 

Nothing worse than rushing in and killing lots of critters. Makes for an empty pocket, an ugly tank and more headache than a hobby should ever provide.

[lizbeth]

Welcome!

 

It sounds like you are trying to combine a fish only tank with a reef tank.

 

First off......adding liverock to a tank that has livestock in it is usually a bad idea. If there is any die off on the rock (and there usually is) it will cause a second cycle as the bacteria catches up to the bioload. You might want to cure the rock you are adding in a separate container (rubbermaid) with that extra power head you need.

 

You are going to need more lighting. I run 110 watts PC on my 20.

http://www.ahsupply.com I'm adding an additional 15 watts NO for dim lighting before and after the main lights run.

 

I would also add an adjustable flow powerhead (the one you use to cure the rock) to the set up. More flow is good.

 

Cleaner shrimp are very cool and don't add much bioload.

 

I wouldn't get a bigger filter. Do some reading on filterless/skimerless systems.

 

Hope this helps and makes some sense........I'm on allergy drugs today and the world is fuzzy!

[MKramer]

To reiterate what others have said, definitely more live rock. I have 18lbs in my 10gal. If you don't want to go heavy on the corals, you can get away with around 20lbs in a 20gal. Any less, and you'll need to add on more sophisticated filtration systems, which are considerably more expensive than live rock.

 

Sebae anemones, like most anemones, are photosynthetic. They need LOTS of light. As in, you'll want at least 90W of powercompact fluorescent to keep one successfully. If yours is already shrinking, it may be hard to rescue it. Increase thel ighting, and hopefully it will readily accept meaty foods. Feed it any meaty seafood you can find, once or twice a week. Easiest route is to probably buy table shrimp from your local grocer, and cut it up into 1cm pieces.

 

If you got rid of the anemone (a local pet store might buy it from you, you could keep most of the corals you mentioned under 50W of light, probably. Use low-light gorgonians and feather dusters (no brains), and you could pobably get away with 32W of compact fluorescent. The 18W just won't cut it for photosynthetic animals.

 

As for the limit on fish, 4 is probably tops, and that's after you increase your liverock considerably, or invest in a good filter system. And you'll have to choose those 4 carefully so they don't compete for the space.

 

I highly recommend you find some resources on reef aquariums, as they will answer a lot of these questions. You can start by reading through the articles on this site. Even something as simple as Saltwater for Dummies can get your aquarium back on track.

 

If you don't want to invest the money in good filtration and lighting, you should stick with fish-only.

[mimie]

Dear MKramer,

 

Thanks for your advice. If you don't already know, my sebae anenome got trapped in my powerhead this morning and died. I am deeply saddened. I installed the device last night and he seemed to have gotten stuck in the suction device meant for undergravel fliter tube. I didn't think he could get up that high.

 

Nways, regarding the green open brain and light. I purshased it from a local store and the owner told me that moderate lighting is ok and he pointed one out in a tank with low lighting. He also did mention that they're photosynthetic when I asked him what to feed it. (Saltwater Paradise).

 

Another store, Dallas North Aquarium told me that anenome has no special lighting needs. You're probably the first to tell me that. I am not doubting you but these are the kinds of mixed messages I am getting.

 

I am overwhelmed with the plethora of info.

 

-------sad beginner-------

 

Just me,

Mimie

[Crakeur]

Mimie, if something is photosynthetic, low light usually isn't strong enough. Be careful what the lfs tells you, they aren't always experts. I saw a baby snowflake moray in a tank with small damsels at one lfs and the salesman actually told me that the eel wouldn't go after small fish or shrimp and he said the eel was fine for a small reef. He must not have noticed the lump in the eel's midsection. You should always do your own research when possible.

 

I will reiterate my original advice to take things slowly. You are creating a small environment where every little change in the environment may seem minor but, to the inhabitants of the tank,those changes could prove deadly.

 

Lizbeth is right about the live rock addition recycling the tank. I would follow her advice about curing the rock prior to adding it to the tank.

 

It may all seem like a lot to swallow and the work needed may seem to be a bit daunting but the end result can be very rewarding (and relaxing believe it or not) so don't shy away from doing what is needed up front.

 

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

Crakeur

[mimie]

Thanks for all your support thus far guys!

 

I ordered 20 lbs. of cured LR (petwarehouse) so I should be ok. I will arrive in about 10-12 days because the FIJIAN gov. is limiting the amount of LR exported.

 

Can u guys recommend another online store which sells it for around 4.99/lb @ 1.09/lb shipping cost?

 

Just me,

mimie

[MKramer]

Just so you're prepared, when you order cured LR, it never arrives fully cured. Even if it was fully cured at the warehouse, there is going to be die-off that occurs while it is in transit. It will cause a cycle in your tank. If it was fully cured before shipping, the cycle should be small, and possibly even tolerable for any critters already in the tank, but keep a close eye on your ammonia levels.

 

Sorry to hear about the anemone. You're not the first person that's lost one to a powerhead.

 

Like crakeur said, anything that's photosynthetic will need more than low-level light to survive. Putting them under a 15W daylight bulb is like you going on a 800 calorie, carbohydrate-only diet. You wouldn't last long, and neither will they.

 

To keep the analogy going, the brain only needs a 1300-1500 calorie diet, but anemones have much higher energy needs, and really need two to three times that. In a ten gallon, you really shouldn't try to keep any photosynthetic animals under less than 30W (there are exceptions, but not many). To keep anemones, we're talking more like 80W minimum.

 

And the light needs to provide some actinic radiation to trigger photosynthesis, too. That's why reef aquariums use blue, or actinic, bulbs for 25-50% of their lighting.

 

This hobby may be too much at first, but once you get everything under control, I know you'll feel it was all worth it.

[Crakeur]

check out gulf-view.com and liverock.com. I haven't ordered from either but gulf-view has been mentioned by others here and liverock.com has some decent prices.

 

MKramer is right about the lighting and the potential problems with putting "cured" rock directly into the aquarium. Preceed with caution.

[gobies]

> liverock.com has some decent prices.

 

I checked liverock.com and www.liverock.com, and both were "register your domain name here" pages. I then tried www.live-rock.com, and they're in the UK.

 

I think I found the one you're referring to: www.liverocks.com.

 

---

BTW, check out Harbor Aquatics (www.harboraquatics.com), too. Last time I got some there, it was cheaper than the stuff at www.liverocks.com.

[Crakeur]

yes, that's it. sorry for the mistake. Sometimes I have to make them to let make the mortals happy.

[mimie]

Hie all,

 

Apologies with my constant barrage of questions...

 

I cancelled my order with Petwarehouse and ordered from a dealer in the DFW area...$10 shipping for quantites up to $50!

FIJI LR is $3.99/lb.

 

I will purchase a rubbermaid and add a powerhead to it for curing purposes but for how long?

 

Please advice.

 

MIMIE

[gobies]

Same as cycling a "regular tank" -- until the nitrates read 0. Depending on how long the rock is out of water, that could be from a day to several weeks. (I drove to Harbor Aquatics and took mine home submerged in 5g buckets. No die-off, no additional cycling time. A friend had to move and get her LR shipped. It was in wet newspaper & towels for over a month. It took several weeks to cycle.)

 

You might want to get a light for the rock, too -- so any photosynthetic stuff has at least a chance. This could probably be a real el-cheapo light. Also, if you can manage it, a protein skimmer would be good.

[mimie]

Hie!

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

More light for the rock and a skimmer...

 

what started out as a hobby is now turning out to be a BAD DAY IN BOSNIA!

 

SOrry, didnt mean to blurt that out at you...just finding it overwhelming.

 

Why do I need a skimmer. I thought the LR does its own filtration. And lights ?

 

Plus, how do I install a skimmer, it look to me like it would require pumps and extra tubes and what else, more $.

 

Phew....I am one sad beginner huh...

 

Mimie

[Crakeur]

the skimmer would be for the curing process and may not be necessary on the tank (none on mine).

 

regarding the bad day in bosina, look at it this way, there isn't much else to do with the money. savings account earn peanuts and the market is a sink hole. Hey, I know, scrap the tan, get sea monkeys and send me the leftover money so I can buy more corals.

[MKramer]

Hey, don't sweat it.

 

The skimmer is an optional piece of equipment. It is a really worthwhile purchase, especially as you get above 15gal, but it can most definitely wait a while.

 

You're right, with liverock and sand, careful feedings (ie, only feeding what the fish will eat), and weekly water changes, there really isn't a need for a skimmer. Adding one will allow you to stretch out your water change period. At the same time, though, it will steal much-needed trace elements from your water, which you will probably need to add back in (calcium, strontium, iodine, ad naseum).

 

I missed something you said in your first post, too.... That your tank was going from 77 at night to 80 in the day. For a reef aquarium, a constant temperature is more important than any particular temperature (as long as it's in a good range). What I mean is, I would set the heaters so that your tank is kept at 80-81 all day and night. Because I live in a warm area, too, and do not have air conditioning, I keep my temperature set at 83. During the winter I'll probably slowly back it down to 80, but if I did that now, it'd climb up to 83-84 during the day when both the lights are on.

 

77-85 is an acceptable range to pick a temperature from. There are a few things that like the cooler end of the range (catalina gobies, margarita snails, etc.), but they're the exception, not the rule.

 

Matthew

[Crakeur]

once she adds better lighting the temp will rise on it's own and probably stabilize a bit more.

[MKramer]

Except the problem is that it's dropping at night, when there won't be any lights on.

 

It does no harm to just set the heater at the desired temperature. If the lights and such help maintain that temperature, then the heater never has to work. But if they don't, then it's there for backup.

 

Matthew