Does anyone have trouble keeping SPS with GSP in nano tanks?

[timdanger]

I'm looking for opinions from people with smaller tank volumes about keeping GSP with stony corals, particularly SPS.

 

I have poor SPS coloration in my 39g SPS cube for a reason I've been unable to identify. One possible culprit that I'd like to eliminate is my large colony of hitchhiker GSP.

 

My personal inclination is to believe that GSP is probably considered a less than ideal choice for a mixed reef because it (1) prefers higher nutrient water than stony corals prefer; and (2) can quickly overgrow slower-growing stony corals.

 

However, in addition to the above, I've read (conflicting) reports on various forums about GSP being especially allelopathic and therefore a bad choice to keep with SPS. one of these reports paraphrased (without citation) Anthony Calfo recommending against keeping GSP at all in a mixed reef due to its highly allelopathic behavior. Still, others reported no problems whatsoever even keeping large colonies of GSP in mixed reefs. However, most of these favorable reports seemed to be from people with larger tanks, not nano tanks with smaller volumes and different dimensions.

 

So, what do you think?

[d9hp]

I'm looking for opinions from people with smaller tank volumes about keeping GSP with stony corals, particularly SPS.

 

I have poor SPS coloration in my 39g SPS cube for a reason I've been unable to identify. One possible culprit that I'd like to eliminate is my large colony of hitchhiker GSP.

 

My personal inclination is to believe that GSP is probably considered a less than ideal choice for a mixed reef because it (1) prefers higher nutrient water than stony corals prefer; and (2) can quickly overgrow slower-growing stony corals.

 

However, in addition to the above, I've read (conflicting) reports on various forums about GSP being especially allelopathic and therefore a bad choice to keep with SPS. one of these reports paraphrased (without citation) Anthony Calfo recommending against keeping GSP at all in a mixed reef due to its highly allelopathic behavior. Still, others reported no problems whatsoever even keeping large colonies of GSP in mixed reefs. However, most of these favorable reports seemed to be from people with larger tanks, not nano tanks with smaller volumes and different dimensions.

 

So, what do you think?

 

Well I was going to say that one of the best tanks I've ever seen was SPS dominant with the ENTIRE back wall covered in GSP. It was insane...but then I read your last sentence.

 

I'm also interested because I have quite a bit of GSP and I'm leaning towards more SPS.

[Maddevil1]

I have a BC14 with GSP and SPS and everything looks great. Just make sure they dont touch each other. What are your water parameters? Lighting setup? Flow setup? Feeding regime? All of this could affect the color of your SPS.

[timdanger]

here's a picture of my tank from about 3-4 months ago. that rock in the front-bottom is completely covered with GSP from end-to-end.

 

 

that rock originally (September 2009) looked like this:

 

 

with just these sparse, pale, innocent-looking polyps:

[timdanger]

I have a BC14 with GSP and SPS and everything looks great. Just make sure they dont touch each other. What are your water parameters? Lighting setup? Flow setup? Feeding regime? All of this could affect the color of your SPS.

 

you can see all the different things i've looked to in my tank thread, but briefly:

 

39g cad pro with 12g sump

150w 20k radium halide with 2x 24w ATI Blue+ Actinics (12 hour actinic + 8 hour halide photoperiod)

bubble-magus nac3+ skimmer

tunze 1073.020 return pump

vortech mp10 on 100% reef crest + tunze 6025 (modded for 6045 flow), both mounted to back wall on the right side, flowing in gyre

BRS dual reactor running BRS granular GFO and Rox 0.8 carbon

dosing 15ml each of BRS Ca/Alk 2-part daily.

feeding 3x a week -- about 1 cube of PE Mysis per week (thawed and drained), and usually some small hikari pellets or cyclopeeze.

everything is controlled by an Apex Lite except the feeding, which I do manually.

 

fish: ocellaris clown, mccosker's flasher wrasse, royal gramma

inverts: skunk cleaner shrimp, peppermint shrimp, a few turbos, hermits (blue- and red-legged) and nerite snails.

corals: misc. acropora, montipora plus the GSP

 

parameters:

salinity = 1.025-1.026 (refractometer)

pH = 8.15-8.3 (pinpoint pH probe measured by Apex) (varies between these numbers over the course of the day)

Temp = 77.5-79F (Apex temp probe measured by Apex) (varies between these numbers over the course of the day)

Ca = 400ppm (Elos test kit) - hasn't measured differently than this for 2 months

Alk = 7.5dkh (Elos test kit) - hasn't measured differently than this for 2 months

Mg = 1500 (Elos test kit) - not testing regularly for this, but this was the figure as of 1 week ago

Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate = 0/undetectable (API test kit)

Phosphate = 0/undetectable (API test kit)

[Dani3d]

I have a patch of about 4" x 5" of GSP growing well in my 21 gallons and my SPS are doing well too. No carbon and no skimmer on that tank, but lots of macro-algae to export phosphates and nitrates.

 

Since your parameters seem fine and everything else is good, I would try zeovite amino acid to bring out the coral color.

 

If you suspect the GSP to attack your SPS, why not try putting carbon filtration with a reactor in there to see if that help? if there is no improvement then it is something else.

[timdanger]

i've used AquaVitro Fuel, Roti-feast in the past to try and convince them to color up. no luck there.

 

 

I also forgot to mention I'm using a grounding probe after I found ~45V stray in my tank (and not from any one piece of equipment).

[StevieT]

Best to maroon GSP on the sand. I have to trim mine every other week it seems.

[timdanger]

Best to maroon GSP on the sand. I have to trim mine every other week it seems.

 

mine is marooned pretty well on that rock in the front. i wonder if it's the sheer volume of it that i have that is problematic.

 

also, i find myself frequently irritating it during water changes trying to pick hair algae/cotton candy algae off of it. i wonder if that's causing some of the issue (though it is uncommon for my SPS to slime post-water change/GSP scrubbing.

[Maddevil1]

Everything looks fine except for 3 things that might have some influence. Your Alk/dKH should be 8-12 dKH, try to get it in that range and steady as can be. Also, I read that GFO can sometimes have a negative affect on SPS. Google it and make your opinion on whether or not to continue using it. Thats why I switched from using ChemiPure Elite to Reef Carbon and Phosguard.

 

Third and most important, REMOVE THAT GROUNDING PROBE. The stray voltage your are probably measuring is most likely coming from your lights. Trying measuring voltage with your lights on vs lights off. Also, by putting a grounding probe in, you are causing more harm than good. If you want to use it when you are about to stick your hands in your tank, go ahead, but then unplug it. By using a grounding probe, you are giving a path for current to flow, current is what kills not voltage. Best example I can give is birds on a power line. They are fine if they are just on the wire. But if any part of them touches the ground, now current has a path and they will be toast.

[RayWhisperer]

Raise Alk to about 11, IMO. FWIW, I didn't even bother testing anything but ALK once I got a tank well established. Also, from what I remember, my API test kit didn't ever read any phosphates. When I switched to, I think it was Elos, I was reading 4 PPM. This is all from memory from a few years ago, so I could be wrong.

[timdanger]

Everything looks fine except for 3 things that might have some influence. Your Alk/dKH should be 8-12 dKH, try to get it in that range and steady as can be.

 

i'd prefer my alk to be at 8-9 and my Ca to be at 420-430, but according to Randy Holmes-Farley, I'm still within the recommended range for a reef aquarium (7-11dkh -- typical ocean surface water is 7dkh).

 

Also, I read that GFO can sometimes have a negative affect on SPS. Google it and make your opinion on whether or not to continue using it. Thats why I switched from using ChemiPure Elite to Reef Carbon and Phosguard.

 

i haven't heard that before, so i don't want to dismiss this outright, but I don't think this is my problem because I haven't always run GFO, and i had the same problems before i used it as i did after. however, since i began to run GFO in a reactor, the colors are at least somewhat improved and algae is decidedly less prolific than before i used it.

 

Third and most important, REMOVE THAT GROUNDING PROBE. The stray voltage your are probably measuring is most likely coming from your lights. Trying measuring voltage with your lights on vs lights off. Also, by putting a grounding probe in, you are causing more harm than good. If you want to use it when you are about to stick your hands in your tank, go ahead, but then unplug it. By using a grounding probe, you are giving a path for current to flow, current is what kills not voltage. Best example I can give is birds on a power line. They are fine if they are just on the wire. But if any part of them touches the ground, now current has a path and they will be toast.

 

first, my stray voltage is coming from multiple sources. my lights actually add 0 volts, per my Fluke multimeter. meanwhile, my JBJ ATO/Aqualifter adds 4v, my maxijet added 12 (i replaced this), my vortech added 4v, my heater added 4v, etc.

 

next, as far as the grounding probe is concerned, there are a lot of different opinions floating around on that. obviously, you must ALWAYS use a GFCI if you are using a ground probe (which I do). i'm not an electrician, and i don't think anyone should take my advice on the matter, but instead consult their own electrician.

 

however, and i'd be happy to hear others weigh in, my conclusion after reading competing arguments on the subject is that GFCI/ground probe together seems to give you the safest scenario for both you and your livestock because the ground probe grounds voltage that isn't supposed to be there, which creates the ground fault that causes the GFCI to trip (without the grounding probe, the GFCI won't always necessarily detect a ground fault until a ground (potentially you!) is introduced, so the risk of electrocution is still there). that's good in that it keeps the problem from shocking or electrocuting you/livestock, but it's bad in that it can result in the tank turning off without you knowing it. if you DON'T have the ground probe, YOU become the ground when you stick your hand in the tank, and that, in my opinion, is where the danger is. it's obviously not a perfect solution, but it seems to me to be the best one.

 

having said that, this article warns against using grounding probes because they actually do complete a circuit and create current in the aquarium where there otherwise may not be any. However, this same author provides an example here of where a ground probe will actually cause a GFCI trip when it otherwise wouldn't. as much as i love my fish/system, i value my house/life more, and my conclusion has been that using a ground probe is more likely to protect my house/life. so, i use one. also see this article for a discussion of ground probe use.

 

Raise Alk to about 11, IMO. FWIW, I didn't even bother testing anything but ALK once I got a tank well established. Also, from what I remember, my API test kit didn't ever read any phosphates. When I switched to, I think it was Elos, I was reading 4 PPM. This is all from memory from a few years ago, so I could be wrong.

 

i'm not opposed to raising my Alk (in fact, as i said, i'd prefer to get it at least a little higher), but is it really necessary and/or a solution to my issues when my Alk is within RHF's recommended range?

 

As far as the phosphate test goes, i've long suspected that i have more phosphates than show up on tests. i'm hoping the wife is going to get me one of those hanna phosphate colorimeters for christmas. we'll see how that goes.

[RayWhisperer]

As far as coloration and growth goes, I've always had the best luck right around 11. As I said, IMO. Perhaps it'd be better to say IME. The last time I tested CAL, I think it was around 380. I doubt it would matter if the CAL was as low as 250, that's still super saturation.

[timdanger]

i've increased dosing by 5ml Alk/Ca solutions per day to raise the Alk level. Might as well give it a shot.