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Cultivated Reef

HYBRIDIZING ZOA'S ATTEMPT


Phyto4life

WILL IT WORK?  

114 members have voted

  1. 1. will I have a new morph?

    • YES
      33
    • NO
      82


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Some really cool thread! I read that simply having 2 different specie of zoanthids together side by side will eventualy produce new mixed offspring. Is that true? First time I see something about grafting. REally cool if it works.

 

fingerscrossed

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Some really cool thread! I read that simply having 2 different specie of zoanthids together side by side will eventualy produce new mixed offspring. Is that true? First time I see something about grafting. REally cool if it works.

 

fingerscrossed

 

work's for paly's

 

I think you just need to coach them a bit by allowing them to grow close then slicing them occasional into each other to force what would happen in nature.

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first try in auto with a 18-55 len's

 

Picture330.jpg

 

Picture332.jpg

better in person

 

hopefully soon when I pick up a new paly I will incorporate a 3rd into him making him 1/3 P.D,1/3 N.G and 1/3 greenish/blue.

 

all zoas died but showed promise with the sliced off head and sliced off side technique

I was impatient and tried to graft him better by slicing him while he was healing and grafting

Edited by Phyto4life
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Nice paly hybrids. Has anyone ever tried grafting together any other high-end protopalys, such as superman, mindblowing, or emerald suns?

 

A long time ago, I tried gluing together polyps to create a hybrid and had no success. I tried cutting many types of zoas in different ways and glued them together in every configuration I could think of. Most of them died, and those that didn't never hybridized.

 

I've noticed that some of the wild zoa colony rocks sometimes have several different color morphs that share physical traits and look like they are hybrids of one another. I think that this is due to coral spawning. Perhaps different genetic information is being combined during a mass spawning event.

 

Maybe someday we will better understand zoanthid spawning in a way that we can control and manipulate the results. Then I can rock the zoa collector world with the the likes of candy nipples, bowser hornets, nightmare jackets...you get the idea.

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That's what they said to the Wright brothers too.

 

The fact that they are even surviving is blowing me away. Zoas, as I understand it, are related to anemones and given their basic morphological structure they should fit together better, for lack of better words, hot dog style as opposed to hamburger style. If you look at a couple morphological diagrams below and apply starfish/anem theory to it (aka cut it in half and have part of the mouth and central disk and you get two identical organisms) you might be performing gastric bypasses on some and others giving two stomachs. The tissues are already specialized and will continue to grow but shouldn't spread to the rest of the organism. That would be like getting a heart transplant from someone and having the DNA from the heart become part of your own. The DNA doesn't mix, the person with the heart wouldn't gain any DNA, and they heart wouldn't get any of theirs. Tissues might grow together, but the cells will still be differentiated and keep the original DNA from whatever parent cell they are spawned from. On the contrary you might be able to get some pretty sweet 50/50 zoas out of the deal and who know what will happen when they bud. The colors could really blend then, for better or worse.

 

hydra-anatomy.jpg

Borrowed on 1Nov2010 from:

http://www.tutorvista.com/content/biology/...oelenterata.php

 

diagram.jpg

Borrowed on 1Nov2010 from:

http://www.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/intro.html

 

And that is my two cents.

 

PS - I like what you are trying to do. Keep up the good work, let me know if I can help... lol I will raise whatever you want to send me ;)

 

I'm pretty sure they didn't call the Wright brothers noobs.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Nice paly hybrids. Has anyone ever tried grafting together any other high-end protopalys, such as superman, mindblowing, or emerald suns?

 

A long time ago, I tried gluing together polyps to create a hybrid and had no success. I tried cutting many types of zoas in different ways and glued them together in every configuration I could think of. Most of them died, and those that didn't never hybridized.

 

I've noticed that some of the wild zoa colony rocks sometimes have several different color morphs that share physical traits and look like they are hybrids of one another. I think that this is due to coral spawning. Perhaps different genetic information is being combined during a mass spawning event.

 

Maybe someday we will better understand zoanthid spawning in a way that we can control and manipulate the results. Then I can rock the zoa collector world with the the likes of candy nipples, bowser hornets, nightmare jackets...you get the idea.

 

several plus years ago when I was a noob

 

I thought the same thing about zoa/paly rock's regarding different color morphs on the same rock. Deep down @ that time I really did believe that they were very closely related and I could swear that I could some how mix them together. I seen their similarities like the paly in your picture. in which I can swear I can see a valentines day massacre in there somewhere.

 

unless it's photo shopped?

 

any info on that paly?

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Here's a pic of the blade that I used for grafting if any one want's to start experiment with different high end paly's

 

Picture343.jpg

 

Picture342.jpg

 

only other thing you would need to do is put 1 color type of paly on one side of a small frag and another type of color paly on the other side of the same frag

 

then wait a few month's to allow them to tightly fit together

 

from there take your razor and concentrate on grafting/slicing one of each paly into each other.

 

then wait a month to see if you did it. if not try again.

 

you will eventually get it just be patient and try not to slice your self up too much.

 

you'll be surprised on how easy it is

 

zoas are another story.

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I was going to write a snoozer of a response about lamarckism and then

this popped out

 

 

I'm not sure this is the right method. Its worth a shot, but they aren't plants after all. Its not like you can graft together a donkey and an antelope and get a new hybrid.

 

I could not stop laughing enough to type so onward we go.

 

 

this is a great experiment with zoanthid biology though lets see what the cut polyps do. watching them heal up is neat and it can change the coloration through zooxanthellae rearrangement and rearrangement of polyp surface pigments upon regrowth. usually the same just comes about.

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gulfsurfer101

IMO the only way this might even work is to take some of the new growth you'll see from around the base of the polyp and try grafting with that before any heads are formed.

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dominant vs dormant clade % I wonder if I might of shuffled them around?

 

If so there might be a way to manipulate clades in a way in which might be more favorable to aquarium conditions. but I doubt because that's just getting to scientific for the average person to know/test for.

Edited by Phyto4life
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IMO the only way this might even work is to take some of the new growth you'll see from around the base of the polyp and try grafting with that before any heads are formed.

 

that way might be good for zoas because that part of the polyp seems to be more leathery like

like in the nuclear green type paly

 

once the head is formed on a zoa and sliced with a razor I find that it mushes up a little too much compared to paly's

 

but at the same time even the so called paly's like everlasting and candy apple reds still mush up when slicing just like a zoa imo compared to the purple death/nuclear green paly.

 

I think paly's such as nuclear green etc can not be grafted to other paly's such as candy apple red because of this reason and they are probably not even the same type paly

 

?

Edited by Phyto4life
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several plus years ago when I was a noob

 

I thought the same thing about zoa/paly rock's regarding different color morphs on the same rock. Deep down @ that time I really did believe that they were very closely related and I could swear that I could some how mix them together. I seen their similarities like the paly in your picture. in which I can swear I can see a valentines day massacre in there somewhere.

 

unless it's photo shopped?

 

any info on that paly?

 

Are you refering to the zoanthid in my avatar? It's called raspberry limeade and not ps'd.

 

I'm sure it shares some genetic similarity to VDM, due to the growth pattern. Pink elephants also fall into this category.

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If I mix a P.D with N.G which = a grafted P.D/N.G paly which =(fact) and add a 3rd solid colored paly to the P.D/N.G grafted paly

 

I predict I will end up with a single 3 colored grafted real L.E paly.

 

yes/no?

 

u

Edited by Phyto4life
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any coral propagator's that want to attempt this.

 

should look at my first pic in the thread it kind of look's ugly but the thing that is great about this is that every attempted graft is different and once you get that right graft that you like you can honestly call it a real L.E created only by you something that may be laying in the ocean with million's of others for all that anyone knows just not yet discovered.

 

or the 2 in which you chose to graft might of never crossed path's in nature because they were harvested from 1000's of K's away from one another

 

with that purposely made L.E you can take your razor and slice it in half carefully to make 2 and so on

 

so in theory you can fill a plug with that exact morph through slicing in half which later on once sold will give off alternating morph's

 

with splitting single paly's you just need to slice in half cleanly scoring a few times in the same spot then you let heal and if it doesn't split try again in 2-5 day's and it will eventually split with in 2-3 try's.

Edited by Phyto4life
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