HYBRIDIZING ZOA'S ATTEMPT

[Jare86cmp]

I happen to have placed a frag of wammin watermelons or something like that so close to some purple zoas and ive noticed that my ww zoas turned half purple...dont know if this is related to what you are trying to achieve but it happen to me accidently..but this is the closes article to what i wanted to know what happen

[reeftankguy]

this is a step foward this hobby is all trial and error 5 years ago no one thought you could frag a BTA and years before that corals alive in a tank was unheard of

 

^lol^

 

Oh sorry... I keep forgetting marine biology/sciences...Coral propagation...etc, started 5 years ago...

 

Nevermind...

 

Carry on

[ThatCollegeReefer]

Oh geeezzzzzzz Noobs!.... Common sense tells me if this was even remotely possible it would have already been done...

 

That's what they said to the Wright brothers too.

 

The fact that they are even surviving is blowing me away. Zoas, as I understand it, are related to anemones and given their basic morphological structure they should fit together better, for lack of better words, hot dog style as opposed to hamburger style. If you look at a couple morphological diagrams below and apply starfish/anem theory to it (aka cut it in half and have part of the mouth and central disk and you get two identical organisms) you might be performing gastric bypasses on some and others giving two stomachs. The tissues are already specialized and will continue to grow but shouldn't spread to the rest of the organism. That would be like getting a heart transplant from someone and having the DNA from the heart become part of your own. The DNA doesn't mix, the person with the heart wouldn't gain any DNA, and they heart wouldn't get any of theirs. Tissues might grow together, but the cells will still be differentiated and keep the original DNA from whatever parent cell they are spawned from. On the contrary you might be able to get some pretty sweet 50/50 zoas out of the deal and who know what will happen when they bud. The colors could really blend then, for better or worse.

 

Borrowed on 1Nov2010 from:

http://www.tutorvista.com/content/biology/...oelenterata.php

 

Borrowed on 1Nov2010 from:

http://www.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/intro.html

 

And that is my two cents.

 

PS - I like what you are trying to do. Keep up the good work, let me know if I can help... lol I will raise whatever you want to send me

Edited November 1, 2010 by ThatCollegeReefer

[Markushka]

The only way i can really see this working is if you made sure that the zoanthids that you are grafting are the same species (i dont know if most of the zoanthids we keep are just different colours of the same species or actually different species.)

 

Like TheCollegeReefer said, the base zoa used may not be able express any colours, and therefore not affect the colour of the head.

Another way to try it would be to cut two heads straight through the mouth and put them together in very slow flow and good water.

It'll be interesting to see what happens though

 

of course if this doesn't work the next logical step is isolating eggs and sperm from the two different kinds of zoa and artificially inseminating them... should be pretty easy...

 

Collecting eggs and sperm and artificial insemination for zoas is easier said than done.

[reeftankguy]

That's what they said to the Wright brothers too.

 

The fact that they are even surviving is blowing me away. Zoas, as I understand it, are related to anemones and given their basic morphological structure they should fit together better, for lack of better words, hot dog style as opposed to hamburger style. If you look at a couple morphological diagrams below and apply starfish/anem theory to it (aka cut it in half and have part of the mouth and central disk and you get two identical organisms) you might be performing gastric bypasses on some and others giving two stomachs. The tissues are already specialized and will continue to grow but shouldn't spread to the rest of the organism. That would be like getting a heart transplant from someone and having the DNA from the heart become part of your own. The DNA doesn't mix, the person with the heart wouldn't gain any DNA, and they heart wouldn't get any of theirs. Tissues might grow together, but the cells will still be differentiated and keep the original DNA from whatever parent cell they are spawned from. On the contrary you might be able to get some pretty sweet 50/50 zoas out of the deal and who know what will happen when they bud. The colors could really blend then, for better or worse.

 

Borrowed on 1Nov2010 from:

http://www.tutorvista.com/content/biology/...oelenterata.php

 

Borrowed on 1Nov2010 from:

http://www.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/intro.html

 

And that is my two cents.

 

PS - I like what you are trying to do. Keep up the good work, let me know if I can help... lol I will raise whatever you want to send me

 

If any organization could pull this off it would be O.R.A., so far they have ZERO success and they have controlled laboratory environments... enough said!

 

I'm not trying to burst anyones bubbles here... This guy is talking about grafting two different types together to create a hybrid... Not going to happen!

[ThatCollegeReefer]

I'm not trying to burst anyones bubbles here... This guy is talking about grafting two different types together to create a hybrid... Not going to happen!

 

Agreed, I don't think it will turn out the way he expects, but it is fun to talk about and he has already had more success then I thought he would. It is still a step in a new interesting direction. the first big step is already there - "IT"S ALIVE!"

[Sexy Shrimp]

Tagging along

[Phyto4life]

Agreed, I don't think it will turn out the way he expects, but it is fun to talk about and he has already had more success then I thought he would. It is still a step in a new interesting direction. the first big step is already there - "IT"S ALIVE!"

 

 

So far it's been 2 months and the nuclear death mother is the same.

 

first offspring is 90% G / 10% P

 

second is 70% P / 30% G

 

 

 

Here are the zoas instead of paly's that I am attempting:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2010 by Phyto4life

[reef keeper]

So all those zoas have been cut in half at one time?^

[googoomas]

If any organization could pull this off it would be O.R.A., so far they have ZERO success and they have controlled laboratory environments... enough said!

 

I'm not trying to burst anyones bubbles here... This guy is talking about grafting two different types together to create a hybrid... Not going to happen!

 

Party Pooper... Good luck with the grafts!

[Phyto4life]

Doing this because there is no other full post recorded in all the internets regarding grafting so I thought we can bring it to a rest here??

 

u know for my 100th frag aniversery.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Phyto4life

[MitchReef]

Oh geeezzzzzzz Noobs!.... Common sense tells me if this was even remotely possible it would have already been done...

Perhaps it has been done. See:

 

Reeffarmers Grafted Montipora

 

Reeffarmers Green Jacketed Divaricata Acropora (actually believed to be grafted from an Acropora and a Pocillopora - two DIFFERENT Genera)

 

Reeffarmers Acropora simplex Grafted Simplex (also a grafting from an Acropora and a Pocillopora)

 

Maybe this isn't so far-fetched after all.

[19jeffro83]

Love the mad scientist approach. Good luck def interested in seeing your results.

[Phyto4life]

I'll know in 2 weeks regarding the zoas

 

It's a new approach

 

I cut one side of one zoa and added the slice head of another to it's cut side forcing it together using crazy glue on one side of the head.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Phyto4life

[FateX9]

i dont remember who did this but this has been done many years ago with pds and nucs

i have heard from many others that have said that just putting them next to each other will "mix", and i know this happens because it has happened to me before but the "mixed" polyp usually gets overtaken

i do think that its more of a species thing though, getting the right species next to each other

ive had many zoas next to each other with nothing happening

im interested in whats going to happen but im not expecting much

[ThatCollegeReefer]

Go go gadget Phyto4life!

[19jeffro83]

Go go gadget Phyto4life!

I think your thinking of "MADD"? Doctor claw?

[johnmaloney]

Ednangel,

 

You summed it up pretty easy. While we are comparing apples to oranges somewhat though. I can understand this persons effort but they will not see all these new zoa/paly types they are wanting. If that was the case every time a couple different colonies grew together in the wild we would see a hedgerow of new morphes and that is not the case.

 

I see them like that out in the wild more often than not... a large boulder will have say, 10k polyps on it, crashing into a larger pink and brown colony and then a small light blue/green line of zoas will run the expanse of "no mans" land between the two. Not sure if zoas can reproduce sexually in close proximity, I don't think they could graph, (still curious though ), and I get your point, but they do grow like that for sure in places in Florida at least, I haven't been many other places though.

Edited November 2, 2010 by johnmaloney

[jagarang]

Pyto4lifes eulogy/obit:

 

"He loved to slice and dice his Frankenzoapalys and they loved to EAT him!"

 

 

-------New York Times 08/17/2075

Edited November 2, 2010 by jagarang

[ednangel]

^ lmao ^

 

Great survivor of the First ZOA War RIP Comrade.

[Urchinhead]

Humm... Where is Fosi when you need him?!?

 

From memory here so please allow for some leeway... As I recall you can get the "hybridization" you are looking for not from grafting tissue together but from the two organism's cross pollinating the various zooxanthellae that exist inside them. The animal itself doesn't make the color its the zooxanthellae it has a symbiotic relationship with that makes the color.

[Urchinhead]

As an FYI-

 

"Reproduction: Though zoanthids reproduce sexually much as do the true corals, the most common form is asexual. Under regular conditions, very frequently you’ll find a piece of material at the base of a colony gives rise to a new individual; a reproductive method termed gemmation."

 

Source: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthid.htm

Edited November 2, 2010 by Urchinhead

[sandcruiser]

keep posting pics

 

I predict that there will be no hybridization

 

but I'll be happier to be wrong than right on this one!

still, in the name of science, it is worth trying it. Even if the results are "no hybrid" it is good data to have for some future as-yet-unknown discovery, perhaps.

[gabe_j]

ok i see what your trying to do but why are the cuts being made horzontally under the disk? wouldn't you have a better chance at success if you cut vertically and then joined the two somehow? kinda like how the nuke/death combo was made? good luck, post more pics.

[Phyto4life]

ok i see what your trying to do but why are the cuts being made horzontally under the disk? wouldn't you have a better chance at success if you cut vertically and then joined the two somehow? kinda like how the nuke/death combo was made? good luck, post more pics.

 

Your probably right because with the slicing I was mixing them into each other more

 

Going to try the ng/pd method if these zoas don't turn out.

 

I'm just waiting for them to grow tighter together, maybe I'll try some crazy glue around the rim of the plug to force them closer

 

If the new method work's it will mean that I no longer need to put 2 different colored polyps on one plug and wait for them to grow tightly together

 

I can just slice the head off from one plug of one colored zoa then bring it over to another plug with a different colored zoa

Edited November 2, 2010 by Phyto4life