Hermit just hanging out upside down

[Vyker]

Ugh, Update:

 

I am thinking it has got to be copper now and I just have hardy snails. The worms I saw were not bristle worms, but were peanut worms. Peanut worms are harmless detrius eaters, so they are probably not killing anything. I still have not seen a bristle worm at all. I am not saying I don't have some, but I imagine I would have seen one.

 

At this point, with nitrates very low, I am thinking its got to be copper. I added a shrimp last night and it didn't make it until the morning. Now, there could have been lots of different causes for this, but I did acclimate it the same as I acclimate everything and he died. It was really sad. He was an anniversary gift from my wife.

 

So, I have crabs and shrimp die very quickly after eating from the sand. My snails are largely unaffected. I haven't lost a single nassarius snail. I may or may not have lost some dwarf or florida ceriths, its hard to tell because they burrow in the sand and I can't get a head count. My nassarius, however, all erupt from the sand when food hits the water, so I know I haven't lost one of those.

 

At this point I am thinking copper is high enough to kill inverts, but not high enough to kill snails in particular. Anyone else with more experience want to agree or chime in?

[Coastie]

Have you been doing water changes? Did you use something with copper in it?

 

Where did your current water come from?

Edited November 4, 2010 by Coastie

[Vyker]

I am thinking it had to come from the sand. I have never added copper, only used distilled from the store for water changes, and have done at least 10% every week, and have done a couple 20% also.

 

Since my crabs did fine until they hit the sand. I am thinking my sand has copper.

[Deleted User 6]

where did you get the sand? was it from another tank that could have used copper at some point?

 

cuprisorb is a decent product for removing metals from water.

[Vyker]

CaribSea Arag-Alive from the LFS.

 

I have a SeaGel bag in there right now to deal with the algae that isn't getting eaten by the crabs I don't have. It has carbon in it. I read that in about a month it will remove the copper from the water. I still think the only solution is to remove the sand.

 

Btw, my fish and corals are still doing great. My corals seem to be growing pretty well in the week and a half I have had them. I think I already have a few new zoanthid polyps and my acropora appears to be branching and has the white tip indicative of growth. My acans and favias might also be growing but it is a bit harder to tell with them. This is another reason I am thinking copper in the sand.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Vyker

[Deleted User 6]

Hmm, that really shouldn't have copper in it. Maybe someone dropped a penny in the tank or something.

 

When you say parameters are fine, what are you testing for?

 

Do you have any corals?

[Vyker]

I edited the above post while you were posting with my coral status.

 

I am testing for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia. I haven't tested for alk yet because the test kit I got used a specific eye dropper and it was broken.

[Deleted User 6]

ok, rule out copper. your coral would be dead faster than your inverts. it's got to be something else.

 

copper isn't going to stay in the sand. it's going to leach out into the water. i highly doubt it's copper at this point.

[Vyker]

BTW, as I stated, I have peanut worms, and lots of them. Whatever is killing my crabs and shrimp also has no effect on my peanut worms. Of course they stay in the rock so probably not playing in the sand.

[Deleted User 6]

And you are positive these aren't molts? My nass. snails eat my hermit molts.

 

How did you acclimate them?

[Kweli]

Very interesting..

 

Could it be a problem with the fish store? how about buying a hermit from another store and placing it on the sandbed

[Vyker]

I wish I had another fish store option. I live in a city of about 250k so we don't have a lot of options. I guess I haven't checked petsmart, they may have hermits. The LFS has a ton of crabs and snails and shrimps that are doing just fine. I have been there multiple times and seen the same specimens over and over again.

 

My tank is only 10g, so when a hermit dies, I don't move his shell and can see that it remains in the same place. I am very certain a few crabs have actually died. My last blue leg is not dead yet, but he isn't moving much at all. He was very active for the week he hung out on the rock. It is possible he is molting and not dying, but I have him on watch still. All of my dead crabs showed the same symptoms, so I am not holding my breath.

 

Acclimation may have killed my shrimp, especially since it didn't last 24 hours. What I do is temp acclimate for at least half an hour. Then, over the course of the next couple hours I remove 2 shot glasses of water from the bag into a separate container and add that much tank water about every 15 mins. I accelerate this process a bit for the hermits and didn't acclimate my snails outside of temp acclimating because that is the instructions on reefcleaners.org.

[tako]

Acclimation may have killed my shrimp, especially since it didn't last 24 hours. What I do is temp acclimate for at least half an hour. Then, over the course of the next couple hours I remove 2 shot glasses of water from the bag into a separate container and add that much tank water about every 15 mins. I accelerate this process a bit for the hermits and didn't acclimate my snails outside of temp acclimating because that is the instructions on reefcleaners.org.

 

That acclimation procedure sounds fine. I don't think a shrimp needs 24 hours, 1 or 2 should do it. I only temp acclimated two nerite snails and a blue hermit because I had to leave. They're still alive after 3 months.

[imsobored152]

I temp acclimated all my inverts for a whopping 10 minutes, Havent lost one yet.

Don't order from reefscavengers.

Test for copper, its the ONLY way to rule it out.

[RussianBoy]

Well the fact that everything is fine beside hermits leads to some time of chemical/metal...

Bristle worms eat detrius and dead stuff they will not kill your hermits.

what chemicals are u using?

What filter setup are you using?

do you vacuum the sand every WC?

where do you get your distilled water from?

[Vyker]

I get distilled from Target.

I use no additional chemicals. I feed flake food and freeze dried brine since I got my fish which was the same time as I had my hermits (if you need the brand name, I can provide when I am home). I also use Kent zoo, Kent Coral revive, and Kent liquid flake stuff I forgot the name of for corals (if you need to know, I can provide when I am home). I have only been using these for the last week when my corals came in. I had hermits die long before that.

I use no filter but about a week ago I had an algae outgrowth so I put in seagel which is just phosban and carbon. I hung it on the glass right in front of the powerhead.

I just started vacuuming the sand last water change because of this issue.

I haven't seen a bristle worm. I thought I did, but it was peanut worms. I have a bunch of them in my one large rock.

 

To clarify, my hermits only die when they eat from the sand. I can't believe that this is just coincidence. Eating from the rock appears to be fine.

 

Lastly, thank you guys so much for paying attention to this issue and thinking about it. I know you don't have to, and I really hate to see these inverts dying.

[plantman1028]

I have a few bristles in my tank and i've never seen them "attack" or eat anything besides the detrius on the sand bed. I think they are ugly, but they sem to help keep my dsb clean, especially around the base of the lr. I could be wrong though, i've read opinions both for and against them.

[Vyker]

Yeah, gonna take the complexity down a notch. Would a slightly higher temp be the culprit? Knocked my heater down a couple degrees and my lone hermit came alive about 3 hours later and walked around like normal. I put in a different thermometer this morning and read 80 degrees, which means it was higher than that for the last couple of weeks... Would 82 degrees kill crabs and shrimp but not snails, fish, or corals? Seems like the most likely culprit to me atm.

[Kweli]

My tank is typically at 84 degrees, sometimes it peaks at 86... all my hermits have been fine for 4+ months including my 2 shrimp and pom pom crab

[RussianBoy]

bro i been thinking on this for the last couple days, we have ruled out, chemical, temperature, food, but here is a common problem and MAYBE it could have something to do with it, first do you check any levels?

Hermits need calcium, they are susceptible to ALK/PH changes.... you need to get a reading on these levels, bring some water to your LFS if you don't have the tests for it. Second, you NEED a filter, some type of filter system running, it helps take out organics and other things that could potentially become a toxic layer on your substrate. I really recommend you talk to some people on here and figure out what you need to do. Also with no filter and now you are vacuuming your substrate, you could release pockets of toxic gas, so please check the phosphate level. I really want to help you solve your problems and if push comes to shove you may need to quarantine your stock and replace your substrate. That is a last resort. Lets figure some more things out first. just a little bag of seagel is not enough for your tank, I think I am running 4 and sometimes 5 different chemicals through my filter at once which also has a fuge in it as well.

 

BTW how long has your tank been established?

Edited November 7, 2010 by RussianBoy

[imsobored152]

still hasnt ruled out copper yet, like I said before, the only way to rule it out, is to test for it.

[Vyker]

I am thinking its got to be temperature now unless I had some sort of hermit crab killing bacteria and my sole living blue leg has an immune system that beat it. He has been chilling on the sand bed ever since I turned the temp down and is not showing any more signs of dying. Its only been two days, but that little bugger is active and eating and moving and everything. I even had to break up a fight between him and a nassarius snail that got a little close when I fed the fish.

 

To be honest, I feel horrible but I was misreading my thermometer. It had a green band that I assumed was from 70-80 since all the other bands were for 10 degree increments, but I guess it was an "aquarium" thermometer, so the band was really between 72-84 which I guess is the healthy range of most aquariums. When I had the temp at 82, or so I thought, it was really at least 86. The band ended right above 80, which I assumed was the 80 degree mark, but after closer inspection the 80 was written above the 80 degree mark. After repeatedly lowering my heater, I noticed that I had to drop it like 6-8 degrees to get back into the green zone. As for why the crabs would die on the sand and not the rock is still a mystery. I wouldn't expect the area on the rock to be cooler, but perhaps it was. I will probably put in a new test hermit this week or weekend and see if it survives. If so, I think I could safely rule this a temperature issue.

[RussianBoy]

dont test on live hermies they are people too test the other things peeps are talking about too before you risk more death, we don't like death here.

[Vyker]

Well, if I still have a live hermit in there is it really a test? I mean seriously, the only thing it can be at this point is some sort of bacteria or virus that my hermits are catching right? Certainly none of the things I haven't tested for would kill some hermits but not all right?

 

I mean, I certainly am not against testing for copper and calcium and alk, but do you really think that if I had hermit killing levels that one would survive? If so I will go test these things.

 

Ph is 8.35

[Vyker]

Update for anyone who is curious. My sole survivor blue leg is still very active and alive. 3 days ago I added a scarlet to see if he would make it, and so far he has. He isn't nearly as active as the blue leg, but he is cleaning up his area very well so I assume he is active when I am not around. If he passes, I will update, but unless that happens I think it can be safely ruled to be a temp issue.