Can anyone tell me why you shouldn't use bioballs

[blasterman]

Sorry....but keeping it real I've always found bio-balls and bio-wheels to be amongst the silliest of all reef contraptions. Both products are conceptually indentical in function. Yes, I've had both at one time in my over 20years of reef-keeping. When I started UGFs were still considered practical for salt.

 

To be honest, neither products contributes heavily to nitrate production any more than the standard berlin method, although large masses of LR or dense sand will do a bit better with nitrate reduction. Hence the complaints about bio-balls or wheels being 'nitrate factories' when it's exagerated, but not entirely false either.

 

Basically, bio-balls and wheels are the poster children for 'solution in search of a problem'. Especially in the case of wheels they were invented primarily to sell products.

 

The fact is that ammonia and nitrite reducing bacteria grow anywhere there's moisture, oxygen, low light and a food source. They don't have little bacteria meetings and take votes on if they want to move to the fancy bio-wheel or high tech bio-balls. Bio-balls and wheels however will support denser colonies of them because of their constant aeration and direct flow, which is why sewage treatment plants often use variations of either technology.

 

However, the typical salt water tank with subtrate and even a low amount of LR and power heads has the capacity to filter out order of magnitude more ammonia and nitrite than could be produced with even heavy fish-loads. So I gotta ask, what problem are you trying to solve by adding bio-balls or even rubble? What's broke? If something is going to disrupt you biological cycle and inpair bacterial absorption of ammonia and nitrite it sure the hell is going to afflict bacteria growing on plastic balls or even rubble. Why do you want to move your biological filter to an external contraption composed of any type media and then just have one more thing to clean?

 

A few years ago I freaked out another reefer when he stopped by by house to grab some frags and was going on about bio-balls. So, I took out a bottle of ammonia and dumped a quarter cap right in my 10 gallon and he stood by horrified. In less than 24hours there was no trace of ammonia - none. With no bio-balls and just a single Koralia the bacteria munched up the ammonia and all I had was a nitrate spike.

Edited September 19, 2010 by blasterman

[MrIcky]

I'm neither a scientist, nor an expert- but I've been keeping aquariums for quite a while.

 

If memory serves, half the reason for the bioballs was that they increased the oxygen levels of an aquarium in a wet-dry filter system. They have an open design so that water will film on them, vastly increasing your air-contact. So the O2 increases, CO2 is more quickly shed-stabilizing pH, etc.

 

Which would lead to the conclusion that bio-balls aren't worth much in a non-wet-dry because there's plenty of other area for bacteria and they (the bioballs) don't have the close proximity to anaerobic zones. So basically they become pointless.

 

My personal opinion is that enclosed small AIOs have some issues with low oxygen but the chambers aren't designed right to make use of the bioballs. If they ran a lower water level in back with a drip tray-they may be helpful. As would small crappy skimmers even if they don't pull anything-but that's for another conversation.

Edited October 15, 2010 by MrIcky

[cbass]

The film/oxygen theory is a good thought. Other than that, maybe the BB removal was an idea started by fish stores to get people to buy more (albeit not a whole lot more) live rock. I have had a BC14 running for 3+ years with bioballs in it without it ever crashing and without anything dying due to nitrates.

[blasterman]

Bio-balls and bio-wheels are still a solution in search of a problem, and basically appeal to the 'gizmo' part of the male brain.

 

The film/air theory is actually a sound practice at sewage treatment plants where giant wheels are used to increase the contact area of the bacteria and O2. This is because they have a confined area to work in and need the maxium amount of biological reduction. That's actually where the idea of bio-wheels came from.

 

However, as I said above, the amount of bacteria in a typical reef is based on the amount of ammonia available. It's not based on the amount of bio-wheels you have or plastic balls, although the marketing department at aquarium product stores would tell you otherwise. These bacteria live in dirt in your back yard, around your toilet, and under your fingernails. They grow everywhere.

 

If ammo reduction were really a problem (which it isn't) we'd be running UGFs in our reef tanks, which nobody does. Frankly I'm astounded at the amount of 'train spotting' involved with obsessing over tank cycling in these type forums. Beginners entering into this hobby think they need a chemistry set and constant monitoring or their tank will stop cycling because it's so fragile, and the truth is the opposite. The nitrogen cycle should be the *least* concern of a tank over a couple month old.

 

Last, if we were to assume that bio-balls in some way improved the nitrogen cycle over a classic berlin style tank, then this would be saying the non-bio ball tanks would have ammonia problems. Sorry, but I haven't seen a high end SPS or show tank use bio-balls in years. I demostrated how my 10gal with no skimmer was able to absorb several ML of straight ammonia with no dire effects because the available bacteria gobbled it up.

[cbass]

ummm...I think the point of the OP (and OP, correct me if I'm wrong) was how there was no need to replace bioballs that come with a tank.

The idea that ammonia is the only thing that determines bacteria populations in a tank is incorrect. They need surface area to colonize on (such as LR or bioballs) and in the case of a small volume of water such as a nano tank it is not a bad idea to error on the side of overabundance of colonization area rather than too little.

"Frankly I'm astounded at the amount of 'train spotting' involved with obsessing over tank cycling in these type forums"

"The nitrogen cycle should be the *least* concern of a tank over a couple month old."

Really? Wow, I don't know that I'd want to throw several hundred dollars worth of corals or fish into my tank without making sure that it cycled correctly and is holding acceptable parameters. I'd say that beginners to reefkeeping need to pay close attention to the parameters of their tank, even after a few months because they tend to be the ones who overlook things such as overstocking and overfeeding or keeping the tank's back chambers clean. If for nothing else, it promotes the idea of paying close attention to your tank and its inhabitants for whose lives you are responsible.

Edited October 15, 2010 by cbass

[lakshwadeep]

Blasterman makes many good points, but they are a little hyberbolic. It's not necessary to use a sleight of hand with adding such a small amount of ammonia to prove your point that live rock is so great since the assumption that bacteria don't care where they grow would mean a tank with bio-balls should behave very similarly to live rock in the speed of ammonia neutralization. Instead, it's a good idea to learn why bio-balls and bio-wheels were made in the first place.

 

Bio-wheels were not designed, initially, for saltwater tanks. They are useful for freshwater tanks due to the lack of a direct freshwater analog to live rock/sand. Likewise, bio-balls used to be found in wet/dry (trickle) filters on tanks because of their high surface area that mricky mentioned, and live rock was either not present or not considered as important in such tanks.

 

It is likely the sole reason bio-balls are still included in tanks is because the manufacturer can claim somewhat that the tank has filtration right out of the box. Non-reefkeepers, primarily potential converts from freshwater, are going to view bio-balls as a reasonable options since it can be hard to initially believe live rock is a legitimate filter. IIRC, some manufacturers even recommend removing bio-balls for saltwater use, probably from acknowledging the superiority of live rock.

 

This is a good article on the subject of marine aquarium filtration:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav.../Filtration.htm

[mginster]

I'm still new to the hobby, but I think I have a good reason for using live rock vs bio balls.

 

When I first started an idiot LFS sold me a scooter blenny and said he would be fine in a 24g that was just starting up. After reading online I quickly found that they need a ton of live rock( for pods). It also stated that they were recommended to 1 per 75g, and that it will need to be a well established tank. I did notice a good pod population on my 40lbs of LR in a 24 so I thought he would be fine. After about 3 days I did not see single pod. I was a bit worried for the little dude so I found out an easy way to add to your pod population which was by using LR rubble in your filter then seeding it with pods. So I went to the LFS and bought live pods and dumped them in the chambers with LR. The guy is still alive and growing, so im assuming that pods are multiplying in the chambers then getting sucked into the tank periodically.

 

My only noob point to all of this is I have no clue if bio balls will also raise pods just as good as LR.

[Coastie]

I am curious. I was led to believe you are to ditch the biowheels and bioballs because the periodic required cleaning if neglected would increase the amounts of nitrates. I don't know the chemistry behind reef keeping so I am only told nitrates are bad. I guess any of these can be really be bad in extreme levels. What I don't know is what are such extreme levels, what can be done to correct them (other than water changes). Which is worse high ammonia levels or nitrate levels? I had a biowheel but ditched it because I led to believe they become nitrate factories. I often see tanks at pet stores that have HOB filters where the drip area is covered in accumulated crap. Wouldn't that be pretty much the same? The life inside the tank seemed to pay it no attention. Can anyone provide a better understanding of this for me?

[lakshwadeep]

Read this article to learn which levels of various water parameters, including ammonia and nitrate, are safe and unsafe and what is found in seawater.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

[chrispyfish]

Something that I saw that seemed like a pretty good idea was to insert the bio balls or rubble into a small onion bag - one of those net sacks like you see in the grocery store. That way when you did a water change you could easily pull the bag and rinse the contents.

 

Couldn't you use cheesecloth for this application. Its sterile as far as I know. Ripening cheese requires many of the same kinds of precision environments and tests required in maintaining a reef.

Its very fine and has relatively a pretty wide weave (a bit wider than a screen window), but since its so thin, it can be folded over however many times you need to create the thickness and fineness of weave you want. Also, its dirt cheap, and can be bought at pretty much any grocery or hardware store. Better yet, bought in bulk from a major distributor such as Sysco or GFS (in Canada, and only if you have access) would probably cost even less. We buy it in our kitchen by the hundreds of yards...

 

Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there. Been reading a lot about bio-balls vs fuge vs LR and all, and I think I'm gonna try and find some simple way of synchronizing the three. I'm thinking I might suspend the bioballs over the fuge chamber (have a Biocube HQI 29G on the way) tied in cheesecloth with string leading up to a hook that'll hook to the top of the fuge somewhere. That way they're easy to remove and the cheesecloth can be ditched every time they're cleaned...gonna give it a shot when I get up and running...

[Jorgieee]

I was recommended to use this system but some people say it kills corals I went to an aquarium place by the house and asked them about it they actually run them on all their big tanks and say they never have had a problem as long as you do the maintance any opinions ? Thanks !

[farkwar]

Bio balls are inefficient. They were designed to help clean human poop and pee from water.

 

They trap detritus if the water is not filtered first.

 

 

For some reason people have not been pre filtering the water over the years(like we did in the 80s and 90s), and they have a bad reputation now. What moron came in in the 2000's telling everyone not to prefilter? Whoever you are, and you know who you are, GFY.

 

I will tell you that live rock is way better at trapping detritus than bio balls ever could. My live rock refugium is a ####ing toilet, grows bristleworks real well, one is like 10 inches long now. Im taking the refugium out of my display tank sump, bad idea. Plan on using cermedia instead.

 

About once a month a flush the refugium into the tank, so it can be filtered by the sock and manual vacuuming.

 

After all the fun stuff, this hobby really is just poop removal.

 

 

Im testing a gallon of cermedia balls right now, looks promising. Each ball is like a quater acre of surface area, or something.

[dean.lutz]

I just upgraded my 29 Gallon Biocube to a 70 Gal AIO Question: why not replace the Bio Balls or as in my case Biohome Ultimate Marine Media with something easier to remove from the Built in Trickle Bio Filter with something easier to maintance such as the Bio Bricks they now sell with a much greater Bio Mass? I've got plenty of cycled rock from the Tank being established combined with the rock from my old 29 Gallon? FYI I ran a 55 Gallon Back when Wet/Dry and Bio Balls were the norm and as long as you ran a Pre Filter before the Trickle Filter and Cleaned the Pre Filter once a week I Never had any issues. Things have gotten all complicated now. Back then you didn't add many additives just your Bi Weekly 20% Water Change. Now I feel like me buying this New/Used 70 Gallon AIO was a Bad Thing. I am getting over loaded from too many opinions at Once.

[mcarroll]

On 5/2/2020 at 8:57 PM, dean.lutz said:

Now I feel like me buying this New/Used 70 Gallon AIO was a Bad Thing. I am getting over loaded from too many opinions at Once.

Starting small and building things yourself one step at a time is more ideal than taking on someone else's pre-built mess.....but you'll make it.  Take your time and be patient.  Don't rush things.  Account for your skill level and don't get (further) ahead of yourself.

 

I can simplify one thing for you:  Reefs don't need extra bio-media.  😃

[Tired]

You still likely don't need to add many additives. If you don't have a huge amount of corals sucking a huge amount of things from the water, and your salt is decent to start with, just do water changes and there you go. 

 

Lots of people just run some floss or a sock to catch gunk in the filter, maybe a bit of activated carbon in there somewhere, and not much else. Some people don't even do that- there are some nice tanks on here with no filter at all, just a pump for flow. 

[DSA65PRO]

I had bio-balls in a 90 gallon reef tank for over eighteen years. When I did my water changes I pumped the replacement water over the bio-balls, with the return pump running, back to the tank. The water from the tank went through filter socks, they all had a small hole in them, to let Copods and Amphipods escape.**  The skimmer was in that compartment. Then trickled over the bio-balls. The only other thing I did was stir the bio-balls up. Never did I take them out. The only major problem I had with that tank was Bubble Algae. ** I kept wiping all my Amphipods out, till I did this, with the holes in the filter socks. BTW With the way the Cabinet was set up, I couldn’t get my Wet-Dry Filter out. 

[PicoMatt]

Just use a simple rule. Seachem Matrix or Biohomme for excellent porosity and bacterial growth. The rest don’t even bother looking at. 

[rough eye]

i watched all this guy's videos and i like what he says in this one about filter media. thoughts?