northstar1357 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Which strips did you get? Makes a big difference. i have 3 50/50 but when i turn on the center strip. the color is not evenly distributed. its less noticable when i turn on all three. then when my wave make hurts surface color goes back to the uneven form. should i put the strips more closely together? Link to comment
evilc66 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 How do you have them spaced? By the sounds of things, you have them spaced fairly wide apart. Even then, it shoudn't create major color blending issues. The LEDs on those strips are 1" apart, which is much less than the typical spacing we use for DIY setups. There will always be some color shadowing from the use of discrete colors. Link to comment
Genj Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I've been reading a few of the free journals that I've been able to find out there about UV/PAR and how it impacts corals and zooxanthellae. It's clear that the UV light causes DNA damage to the corals; however, I haven't been able to find what happens to the zooxanthellae in the absence, or highly reduced presence, of UV. Some articles suggest that having increased PAR without having the UV will benefit that coral greatly. The answer is probably out there; however, I'm having a problem forking over sums of cash to read articles for curiosity. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 UV can/will always damage living tissue, but only when used in excessive amounts. That's what most people miss when reading articles like that, and just go around saying that UV in general is a bad thing (not saying that you are, just stating a trend that I see). It really isn't, and case in point, all MH bulbs, even after UV blocking glass (only blocks UV-C, but reduces UV-B and UV-A), output a reasonable amount of UV-A, typically right around 365nm. Even a great number of T5 bulbs put out UV-A to some extent. The whole notion that UV in the aquarium is bad is crap. UV in excess is bad. Same can be said about blue LEDs. Use them in excess, or focus the beam tight enough, and you can bleach corals in a heartbeat. Don't see anyone complaining that 440-470nm light shouldn't be used in our aquariums. Link to comment
pumarjr Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I love the look of my LEDs, I just wish I could get the missing spectrums from them, I'm thinking of buying the 12" bare bones T5HO kit from nano tuners and adding the colors that are missing that way, I feel that my tank is missing some red/pink and true actinic color. Link to comment
blasterman Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Let me guess..... Cool-Whites plus Royals. Link to comment
pumarjr Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Yea, I built mine for my BC29 a few months ago, I'm happy with it, I see good growth, corals love it, spread is great, but even with all that's great, I'm just wanting that little something extra, by adding some t5's to the setup I should be able to accomplish what color I'm after. Another reason is I want to be able to shoot photos of the corals under the actinics, right Now under the Blue LEDs, because of the spectrum, my camera hates it and cannot understand to shoot properly. I thought about changing my led setup up a bit and adding and removing some LEDs. I was going to remove 6 cw and 6 rb's and add 6 nw and 6 blues to the setup, but considering how bright the regular blues are I would need to dim them separately and I would also dim the NW separately, giving me 4 dimmers and I'm not after a complicated setup. I would love to build an hqi, led, t5 fixture but I do not want the added energy costs, nor the added heat to my tank. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Opposed to switching out 6 and 6, go with something a little more subtle. Try 4 neutrals and 2 blues. With only two blues (positioned right), you shouldn't need to run them on seperate drivers to compensate for the extra brightness of the blue LEDs. As for the neutrals, I wouldn't worry about adjust them seperately either. As long as you place them right so they blend well with the cool whites, then there should be no need to adjust them. Link to comment
pumarjr Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I would have only done it to have complete control over the color temp. In your opinion, being that I respect your opinion, would adding the blues and neutral whites give a better color? Or would adding T5's to the mix be a better option? Also, would adding the blues to the mix allow for taking pictures under them? Right now when under only the RB's the images are totally washed out. I do love my setup, the shimmer and cost savings are great. Link to comment
therman Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 The first larger fixture I built consisted of 44 LEDs, 22 CW XR-E, and 22 blues, with 3 K2 regular blues and the rest RB XR-E. I used this fixture as the basis for my future fixtures and LOVED the colors of zoas, SPS, and everything that I put under it. Next I built an 88 fixture with 44 XR-E blues and 44 XP-G CW. This was rather blue for my taste, and I didnt realize at the time that the XP-Gs were a good bit cooler than the XR-Es. It's just over my sump/sps prop, so I haven't gone to great lengths to modify it, just fiddled with the dimming and balance of colors and get pretty good overall coloration now. Most recently (May 2010) I built a 156 Cree setup, switching back to all XR-Es, 78 CW, 78RB. I am still finding the happy place for colors, and think that the cool blue at a roughly 1:5 ratio with RB may be a key component, so I've got some on order to swap them out. I'm also swapping CW for NW XR-E at roughly the same 1:5 NW:CW ratio to improve the pop in reds and yellows of the fish. This fixture has 20 degree optics, and runs high over the tank. Overall I am very happy with the results with excellent growth and good to great colors on most corals, though some of the sps colors are pale due to a lack of zooxanthellae. I think this is mostly due to the result of the majorly intense lighting even with the fixture 36" over the water. Whites are around 400mA, blues around 550-600mA currently, though I'm still adjusting. Wish someone had a PAR meter around here I could borrow Here's a photo of the tank, 36x37x18 frameless from glasscages.com on a steel stand that a friend built for it The lights are so high that many people don't even notice them when they look at the tank, and I'm free to work in it without any obstruction. Acros and clams do great in the sand everywhere, and there is very little light spill into the room. Color blending is no problem and ripple lines are clean, not technicolor. -Tim Link to comment
beeker Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Tim, you could most likely use 40 optics and still get great PAR even with the fixture around 24 inch's over the water, this might reduce the bleaching effect and give you more spread, would probably be better when you add the neutral white and cool blue 20 optics are extremely tight and i'm sure your PAR is rediculous, lol i'm supprised you aren't cooking clams with that setup Link to comment
Genj Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 It does look good though doesn't it? Very nice Tim! Link to comment
evilc66 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I would have only done it to have complete control over the color temp. In your opinion, being that I respect your opinion, would adding the blues and neutral whites give a better color? Or would adding T5's to the mix be a better option? Also, would adding the blues to the mix allow for taking pictures under them? Right now when under only the RB's the images are totally washed out. I do love my setup, the shimmer and cost savings are great. It's going to be an improvement in color no matter what. T5's can add a different effect, as even specific colored bulbs are still wider spectrum than the very narrow output of colored LEDs. As for taking pictures, if LEDs are involved, it makes photography a challenge, regardless of the colors. Most of the time, some post processing is needed to get the appropriate colors and balance, especially when shooting under blue heavy light. Link to comment
therman Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Tim, you could most likely use 40 optics and still get great PAR even with the fixture around 24 inch's over the water, this might reduce the bleaching effect and give you more spread, would probably be better when you add the neutral white and cool blue Of course, but why ruin a beautiful thing? 40 deg optics would dilute the lighting, cause way more spill, and impede my access and unobstructed view of the tank. 20 degree optics are one of the main reasons I love LEDs That being said I'll probably try 40s on the NW and CB to prevent localized effects. I have no problem turning down the LEDs even lower, just saves more electricity. 20 optics are extremely tight and i'm sure your PAR is rediculous, lol i'm supprised you aren't cooking clams with that setup My Hippopus and squamosa love it, they're growing great. Even the acros that are pale are growing like crazy. I have noticed its too much for a lot of zoas though, which isn't terribly surprising. I have a piece of rainbow A. bowerbanki that is happy pretty close to the glass. It does look good though doesn't it? Very nice Tim! Thanks! I'm really happy with it. Going for a relatively warm color temp, with a nice batch of chromis and lots of acros like I've seen in shallow reefs. Link to comment
pumarjr Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 A couple of questions before I place my order on ledsupply, 1st. Can I power 2 1000ma buckpuks with one 24v psu? 2nd. When you refer to Cool Blue, are they just the regular Cree XR-E Blues? Or are they another type of Blue? Thanks for your help. Link to comment
Mr. Microscope Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Yes, I think you can power 6 bucks on a potrans 24V powersupply. Double check that though. and Yes, Cool Blue is just Blue. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 We have been using the term "cool blue" as an easier way to differentiate the difference between blue and royal blue. For me mentally, it seems like a bigger separation between the colors, even though I know it's only 15nm. Link to comment
pumarjr Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 15nm in the scheme of things is a noticeable difference. I just ordered 6 neutrals 6 blues, 2 1000ma dimmable bucks and 1 24v psu. Link to comment
blasterman Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Just to kind of sum things up we've learned; Cool Blues, or standard blues, help to punch up reds, oranges and burgandys. Even with just a 15-20nm difference from royals the reaction from corals -vs- royals is rather significant. This color needs to be added with caution though because it can easily overwhelm the colors in a tank and produce the dreaded Windex look. When using Neutral Whites you need a higher ratio of royal blue to offset the color temp difference. With standard cool-whites 1:1 often works fine. When using neutrals the ratio of 2:1 seems to be the best. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 But would you agree that would only be if you are using just neutrals? Seems to me that the ratio changes very little when mixed with cool white to some degree. Link to comment
pumarjr Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 A little later today I'm going to make a led placement diagram and I'd like some direction for the layout. Right now I have a 1:1 ratio of cw to rb's, and I just ordered some nw's and cb's, I'll make the layout of my existing setup, then maybe you guys can help point me in the right direction for adding and subtracting the LEDs. The NW's and CB's will be on their own separate dimming circuits. Link to comment
Mr. Microscope Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 A little later today I'm going to make a led placement diagram and I'd like some direction for the layout. Right now I have a 1:1 ratio of cw to rb's, and I just ordered some nw's and cb's, I'll make the layout of my existing setup, then maybe you guys can help point me in the right direction for adding and subtracting the LEDs. The NW's and CB's will be on their own separate dimming circuits. Sounds good, but I think it would be better to start your own thread in the lighting forum for this. Link to comment
pumarjr Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I will. But for some reason I hardly ever get replys to my threads. If I continually bump the thread someone may offer their 2 cents but other than that it's hard getting responses. Also, this would fall under led ascetics wouldn't it? It would be configuring the LEDs in such a way that the color would be better, also after I get the help here I would make a new thread in the lighting section with before and after shots of the tank along with the configuration applied. Link to comment
blasterman Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 But would you agree that would only be if you are using just neutrals? Seems to me that the ratio changes very little when mixed with cool white to some degree. Hmm, not sure if I'm following you (or just tired). There are obviously some people running 2:1 RB/CW, but that ratio also seems to generate just as many complaints about being too extreme. However, anything less than 2:1 with neutrals leads to a really severe drop in color temp. I haven't tried mixing CW's and Neutrals because this hasn't work well with fixed lighting. What it tends to do is overlap the common green-yellow of both emitters. However, because I haven't tried it I don't want to claim it won't work. If I still didn't answer the question, just smack me Now if I can just keep from frying all those CB Rebels I've been getting I'll be happy. While I respect the Rebel line, one thing that ticks me off about the damn things is they are uber sensitive to thermal rush. A 2ohm resistor on a 350mA regulated driver is not enough to protect a single Rebel from frying, but it works fine with Crees and Satistronics. I'm starting to see why a lot of people are ticked at the demise of the K2 line. Those suckers were tough to kill. Link to comment
Hans Dorn Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 The K2's were so dim because Philips fried them during the end-of-line test. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.