LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?

[joelsaxton]

I like the look of the NW and CW mixed.

 

I was saying to reverse them so that you can get more yellow and red light. I still like the look of the white light hence why I am running some CW in my build.

 

That's cool. I'm just saying NW + RB will cover the same spectrum as CW + RB plus more of the red end of the spectrum.

[skymastre]

I like the look of the NW and CW mixed.

 

I was saying to reverse them so that you can get more yellow and red light. I still like the look of the white light hence why I am running some CW in my build.

 

 

I'll give it a try with the CWs. I like the idea of having a few more color temperatures well represented...and they can always be dimmed.

 

Do you think that my LED arrangement is random enough now? I'm going to get two cree blues like you suggested as well.

[blasterman]

I'm just saying NW + RB will cover the same spectrum as CB + RB plus more of the red end of the spectrum.

 

Uh, no. White LEDs, be it neutrals, warms, cool-whites whatever are going to have a specific blue spike. This spike will usually be the same wavelength as RB's, or very very close.

 

CB's are longer in wavelength and their color is more cyanish, and it's very distinct from the deep blue glow of RB's. You do not typically see this wavelength in white LEDs because they would not be passed in the factory to the phosphor stage given the color would be screwy. Actually, they might be cool for reefing because we could add RB's and get the additional blue wavelength. However, white LEDs of any flavor are going to have a blue spike very, very close to RBs. CB's are an entirely different beast.

 

I still get why you'd want to mix NWs and CWs because you're just overlapping the same phosphors and spikes, but if it works it works. What we really need is a white LED designed for reefing. Preferably minus about 50% of the typical green they have to make them visually neutral to the eye.

[jfarabaugh]

I still get why you'd want to mix NWs and CWs because you're just overlapping the same phosphors and spikes, but if it works it works. What we really need is a white LED designed for reefing. Preferably minus about 50% of the typical green they have to make them visually neutral to the eye.

 

for me it was an aesthetic choice. I like a whiter looking light but wanted the red and yellow output from the neutrals at the same time.

[beeker]

For me on my tank the cool whites are too over powering in a 12k PAR38 bulb

 

and because there are 3 cool whites to 2 royal blues it means that my sps tend to brown/yellow to a degree unless heavily influenced with Royal blue so as the cool white is blended out but is still there for the growth cause cool white will grow corals fast but they will lack color

 

I'm honestly thinking of sending in my 12k bulbs and having them take out 2 cool whites and put a neutral white and royal blue or cool blue in their place, to me this would offer all 4 spectrums in 1 bulb and would reduce the browing of corals drasticly as i'm going more for color than growth in my tank since it's a display tank

 

when my setup is all said and done i'm sure all my bulbs will be built with 2 royal blue 1 cool blue 1 cool white and 1 neutral white led, though the optics on the cool blue will probably be kept at 60 optics to limit the greening/cyan effect it has on purple sps but still be able to add some PAR and color

[blasterman]

for me it was an aesthetic choice. I like a whiter looking light but wanted the red and yellow output from the neutrals at the same time.

 

Could be this is really an issue with the very nature of cool-whites being so variable in terms of color.

 

For instance, Cree cool-whites can range from 5500k to 7500k, and the amount of red in that spread differs greatly. Bridgelux cool-whites tend to hover around 5600k, which is about the warmest you'll ever find a CW Cree, if at all. Latest bunch of XP-G I got are nice, but they're quite a bit cooler than Bridgelux CWs, and by 'cooler' I mean blue-green.

 

If we had consistent 'warm-end' bins of CWs, I doubt if you'd want to mix NWs and CWs. I can otherwise see NWs by themselves being too warm for your tastes and standard Cree CW's lacking sufficient warmth.

[joelsaxton]

Uh, no. White LEDs, be it neutrals, warms, cool-whites whatever are going to have a specific blue spike. This spike will usually be the same wavelength as RB's, or very very close.

 

CB's are longer in wavelength and their color is more cyanish, and it's very distinct from the deep blue glow of RB's. You do not typically see this wavelength in white LEDs because they would not be passed in the factory to the phosphor stage given the color would be screwy. Actually, they might be cool for reefing because we could add RB's and get the additional blue wavelength. However, white LEDs of any flavor are going to have a blue spike very, very close to RBs. CB's are an entirely different beast.

 

I still get why you'd want to mix NWs and CWs because you're just overlapping the same phosphors and spikes, but if it works it works. What we really need is a white LED designed for reefing. Preferably minus about 50% of the typical green they have to make them visually neutral to the eye.

I made a mistake. I meant "CW + RB" not "CB + RB"

[DaveFason]

Get ready for tonight. Pictures of the 48 Up board over tank. Its as close to a T5 set up with...

 

2 - Blue +

1 - Fiji

1 - Aqua Blue

 

It blew my socks off!

 

-Dave

[JSVAND5]

What we really need is a white LED designed for reefing. Preferably minus about 50% of the typical green they have to make them visually neutral to the eye.

 

I was thinking about this as well. Do you think it will be possible to eventually have LEDS that are just made as say 16k or 20k? It would be nice to not have to worry about as this color blending stuff.

[Genj]

Get ready for tonight. Pictures of the 48 Up board over tank. Its as close to a T5 set up with...

 

2 - Blue +

1 - Fiji

1 - Aqua Blue

 

It blew my socks off!

 

-Dave

 

Ok Dave, I just put my ski socks on a pulled up with the ottoman!

[DaveFason]

I know I know. I'm trying. I had to deliver the four units I made to a local. He is snapping photo's.

 

-Dave

[blasterman]

Do you think it will be possible to eventually have LEDS that are just made as say 16k or 20k?

 

If you were to design an ideal reef LED you'd start with a cool-white, reduce the amount of green / yellow, and increase red a bit. This would make the LED look a bit pink, but it would do the trick.

 

The issue against LED's is white LEDs are fairly continuous in terms of spectrum between green and red, and most of this is just wasted energy and bad color. However, you need some red and you need some green. Reef halides and T5's are mostly spikes, so when you are comparing those bulbs of different color temps LEDs just don't apply well. A 16k or 20k LED for example would be almost entirely blue and green with no red, and just doesn't look that good.

[plainrt]

Get ready for tonight. Pictures of the 48 Up board over tank. Its as close to a T5 set up with...

 

2 - Blue +

1 - Fiji

1 - Aqua Blue

 

It blew my socks off!

 

-Dave

 

 

waiting for this........

[rhawnk]

Thanks again Genj and jfarabaugh for the spacing advice. Instead of the 2" spacing i went forward with testing on a single star of NW, CW, B and RB each spaced about .5" apart. I gotta say the overall color is still amazing and color shadowing is far less than with the large spacing.

 

Here is a shot of the 2" spacing on just the 4 leds. You can see the shadowing even with my crappy point and shoot.

 

 

Here we are with a single 4 led star in the middle of the tank.

 

 

I'm still debating the ultimate layout, what do the experts think,

2 clusters?

or 3 clusters?

 

Next step is to test out some diffusers

 

And thanks again for all the help and great info in this topic.

[therman]

My socks are still on after 4 days!

 

Get ready for tonight. Pictures of the 48 Up board over tank. Its as close to a T5 set up with...

 

2 - Blue +

1 - Fiji

1 - Aqua Blue

 

It blew my socks off!

 

-Dave

[Genj]

Thanks again Genj and jfarabaugh for the spacing advice. Instead of the 2" spacing i went forward with testing on a single star of NW, CW, B and RB each spaced about .5" apart. I gotta say the overall color is still amazing and color shadowing is far less than with the large spacing.

 

Here is a shot of the 2" spacing on just the 4 leds. You can see the shadowing even with my crappy point and shoot.

 

I'm still debating the ultimate layout, what do the experts think,

2 clusters?

or 3 clusters?

 

Next step is to test out some diffusers

 

And thanks again for all the help and great info in this topic.

 

I pass your thanks on to the guys that taught me. *grin*

 

I like your three cluster idea personally. Experiment with getting them as close as possible without saturating the heat sink. The standard diffusion material from HD or Lowes is $7 a sheet and will work really well. It does severely reduce shimmer.

 

Also, this is for JF, the SunPro people mailed me back: in broken english and I'm going to get a piece. Unfortuantely they indicate:

 

The largest size of FD now would be 150*150mm, thickness: 0.5mm

It cost $4.83USD per piece.

 

The size isn't so good.

[skymastre]

I pass your thanks on to the guys that taught me. *grin*

 

I like your three cluster idea personally. Experiment with getting them as close as possible without saturating the heat sink. The standard diffusion material from HD or Lowes is $7 a sheet and will work really well. It does severely reduce shimmer.

 

Also, this is for JF, the SunPro people mailed me back: in broken english and I'm going to get a piece. Unfortuantely they indicate:

 

The largest size of FD now would be 150*150mm, thickness: 0.5mm

It cost $4.83USD per piece.

 

The size isn't so good.

Re the diffusion stuff-is this what you mean

 

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-10...catalogId=10053

 

How have you mounted it in your tanks? Inside the splash guard by the LEDs or overtop (like people who are running open tops do with eggcrate?)

 

also, is someone running the diffuser with optics? Jarfarabaugh-would love to see your PAR numbers with your setup and optics added! I would imagine the diffuser would really help with the spotlight effect, but I could be wrong.

 

Thanks

[Genj]

nope, that's not it. It's this:

 

just go by your big box store and you'll see it there in ~18x18" sheets.

 

 

Must warn you, it cuts like crap.

[jfarabaugh]

Re the diffusion stuff-is this what you mean

 

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-10...catalogId=10053

 

How have you mounted it in your tanks? Inside the splash guard by the LEDs or overtop (like people who are running open tops do with eggcrate?)

 

also, is someone running the diffuser with optics? Jarfarabaugh-would love to see your PAR numbers with your setup and optics added! I would imagine the diffuser would really help with the spotlight effect, but I could be wrong.

 

Thanks

 

Mine is mounted inside the splash guard and is about 1" away from the LEDs.

 

I wont be adding optics to my setup anytime soon as my PAR numbers are more then enough to keep anything I want in my tank. If I get bored someday and want to bleech out some corals I will pick them up

 

nope, that's not it. It's this:

 

just go by your big box store and you'll see it there in ~18x18" sheets.

 

 

Must warn you, it cuts like crap.

 

I found the only way to cut it is to tape your cut line and use a dremel cut wheel. Any other way and it just cracks while cutting.

 

 

Also, this is for JF, the SunPro people mailed me back: in broken english and I'm going to get a piece. Unfortuantely they indicate:

 

The largest size of FD now would be 150*150mm, thickness: 0.5mm

It cost $4.83USD per piece.

 

The size isn't so good.

 

looking foward to seeing what they send you. If anything this is really the only thing I may change out in the future with my current build.

[skymastre]

Thanks guys, again really helpful as always

[NeveSSL]

What do you guys think is the best way to to distribute the light over a 20x18x18 tank? I am planning on bare LEDs close to the water.

 

I'm planning on using 12 RBs, 6 NWs, 2 CBs (all XR-Es) and 4 cool whites. Do you guys think this will be enough? I could probably add a few more if I need to since I will be using 2 Meanwell ELN-60-48s.

 

I'm not sure at all what to do with these. I had originally thought about putting them on two 4.25x9 heatsinks, but I'm not sure this will provide adequate coverage over a 20x18 tank.

 

I also have thought about doing clusters, but I'm not sure that would work well with all of the different colors I'm doing.

 

Any thoughts? I'm really wanting to get good coverage without spotlighting.

 

Any help would be much appreciated!!! I'm hoping to use tax return money to do this.

 

Brandon

[joelsaxton]

I found this: http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Lighting_...R0-125PRIS24X48

 

Might work for a larger tank or if you wanted to cut it down to size.

[jfarabaugh]

I found this: http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Lighting_...R0-125PRIS24X48

 

Might work for a larger tank or if you wanted to cut it down to size.

 

 

That looks like most folks are getting from HD and lowes in about a 2' x 4' sheet for about $8.00. Unless that is something special... but from the picture and description it looks exactly that same.

[senoufo]

it cuts like glass: score with a sharp knife ( make a few passes with added pressure, use a ruler as a guide ) and align the cut on a table edge and pull down, it will snap off cleanly, then repeat for the other cut.

[skymastre]

it cuts like glass: score with a sharp knife ( make a few passes with added pressure, use a ruler as a guide ) and align the cut on a table edge and pull down, it will snap off cleanly, then repeat for the other cut.

...no kidding. No dremel :-) I was looking for an excuse to get one...don't disappoint me!