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LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?


Machupicchu

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the multiple photos are a good indicator of color temp differences, but would be even more useful if you were to include a color chart of some sort. Even something as simple as a red/blue/yellow piece of paper in each shot would help people see what is going on.

 

Of course it would also help a bunch if you took the same background outdoors and shot it under natural sunlight (but at a smaller aperture and/or faster speed).

 

Thanks for taking the pictures.

 

So the 10000K LEDs came in today so I put together a quick (very quick) rig and took some pictures. Keep in mind the color and the overall difference in color can be skewed by your monitor. Everything here is running off of 2 AAs. Big thanks to Steve from http://stevesleds.com/ in getting these out to me so quick. Let me know what other combos you want to see with these 3 different LEDs

 

10000k

10000K_1.JPG

Cree XR-E Q5 Cool White

Cree_CW_1.JPG

10000k & Cree XR-E Q5 Cool White

Cree_CW_10000k_1.JPG

10000k & Cree XR-E Q5 Cool White

Cree_CW_10000k_4.JPG

10000k & Cree XR-E RB

10000K_Cree_RB_1.JPG

Cree XR-E Q5 Cool White & Cree XR-E RB

Cree_CW_Cree_RB_1.JPG

10000k & Cree XR-E RB & Cree XR-E Q5 Cool White

All_Three_1.JPG

10000k & Cree XR-E RB & Cree XR-E Q5 Cool White

All_Three_4.JPG

10000k & Cree XR-E RB & Cree XR-E Q5 Cool White

All_Three_Over.JPG

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I made several DIY LED fixtures in the past year. In most I used cool white Cree XR-Es, but in one I used XP-Gs. There is a substantial difference in the colors of these two LEDs, and the XP-Gs are a bit too cool for my tastes. Unfortunately after wiring in 44 of them I was stuck, but at least they were on a prop system and not a display.

 

I much prefer the XR-E cool whites, as they do a better job of rendering warm colors. Also better optics options...

 

My 2 cents.

Tim

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Just ordered some Cree XR-E Blues.

 

Right now I am planning on running

 

6, 10000ks

6, Cree CW

6, Cree RB

6, Cree B

 

This may change once I get it put together if I cannot get the color I want out of it. I think this may be a first as far as DIY LED builds are concerned

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all on separate dimmers?

 

I changed these colors again after about 4 hours of reading last night.....ordered some cyan and NW.

 

No, My pretty expensive controller/driver is already built and only has 2 channels at this point. I will separate them into a white channel and a blue channel that has a few cyans in it.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=245630

 

As of this minute I am thinking of breaking down the following

 

4 Cree CW

4 Cree NW

4 10000k

 

3 cyan

5 Cree Blue (May replace one of these with a Red)

4 Cree Royal Blue (looking at the graphs for both the CW and NW they seem to cover this area very well already)

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Here's my test unit. I went with Luxeon 10mm squares and 10mm CREE XP.

 

6 - NW 4100K

2 - Blue 470nm

1 - Red 626nm

2 - Cyan 505nm

4 - CREE RB XP-E D3 Bin

 

So far I am liking the color. The Cyan makes some of the other colors pop and the hint of red does a little with some of the warmer colors. I still need to do more testing but I really like the Luxeon brand.

 

PAR Testings ( Not in tank ) 40 degree frosted optics/ Power around 750mA for whites/ Blues 1000mA/ Cyan and red 500mA

6" - 627

12" - 497-500

18" - 299-310

24" - 240-250

36" - 130-141

 

I will get pictures over the tank.

 

IMG_5419.jpg

IMG_5418.jpg

 

-Dave

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Here's my test unit. I went with Luxeon 10mm squares and 10mm CREE XP.

 

6 - NW 4100K

2 - Blue 470nm

1 - Red 626nm

2 - Cyan 505nm

4 - CREE RB XP-E D3 Bin

 

So far I am liking the color. The Cyan makes some of the other colors pop and the hint of red does a little with some of the warmer colors. I still need to do more testing but I really like the Luxeon brand.

 

PAR Testings ( Not in tank ) 40 degree frosted optics/ Power around 750mA for whites/ Blues 1000mA/ Cyan and red 500mA

6" - 627

12" - 497-500

18" - 299-310

24" - 240-250

36" - 130-141

 

I will get pictures over the tank.

 

 

-Dave

 

Awesome! Thank you for adding this. Do you have a thread that you are adding to anywhere?

 

Where did you get the RB D3 bin at? I have no idea what bin I got from nanotuners but I will replace them to make sure.

 

Looking foward to the pics over your tank.

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Here's my test unit. I went with Luxeon 10mm squares and 10mm CREE XP.

 

6 - NW 4100K

2 - Blue 470nm

1 - Red 626nm

2 - Cyan 505nm

4 - CREE RB XP-E D3 Bin

 

So far I am liking the color. The Cyan makes some of the other colors pop and the hint of red does a little with some of the warmer colors. I still need to do more testing but I really like the Luxeon brand.

 

PAR Testings ( Not in tank ) 40 degree frosted optics/ Power around 750mA for whites/ Blues 1000mA/ Cyan and red 500mA

6" - 627

12" - 497-500

18" - 299-310

24" - 240-250

36" - 130-141

 

I will get pictures over the tank.

 

IMG_5419.jpg

IMG_5418.jpg

 

-Dave

 

 

Geez Dave, making your own line of Christmas lights now?

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my coral colors under PAR38 leds

 

This is a mix of cool white, cool blue, royal blue and neutral white

 

Taste073.jpg

 

Taste080.jpg

 

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Taste064.jpg

 

Taste012.jpg

 

Taste010.jpg

 

Taste035.jpg

 

Taste047.jpg

 

Taste013.jpg

 

Taste014.jpg

 

Taste085.jpg

 

Taste062.jpg

 

Taste037.jpg

 

Taste015.jpg

 

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Taste057.jpg

 

Taste046.jpg

 

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Taste052.jpg

 

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Taste069.jpg

 

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Taste018.jpg

 

EnJOI!!!!!

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my coral colors under PAR38 leds

 

This is a mix of cool white, cool blue, royal blue and neutral white

 

EnJOI!!!!!

 

 

Thanks for sharing. IMO the colors in your pictures look much better with the addition of the blue and the NW compared to other tanks running just CW and RB. Your corals look very happy and healthy.

 

It looks like you would benefit from wider optics as I am seeing some spot light effects?

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Beeker, I don't know if you posted enough pictures :lol:

 

On topic though, higher color temperature whites certainly won't be the answer. The biggest issue that seems to be coming out right now is the lack of red spectrum. While adding in red LEDs can be one solution, it can be horribly distracting. The red LEDs would need to be on their own driver, and run at very low currents to not be overpowering. Running higher CRI neutral whites could be a better, more subtle solution, or at least a combination of cool whites and neutrals. Not sure about the need for cyan though. most white LEDs do actually dip into that range, albeit not in as much quantity as a raw cyan LED. Using discrete cyan LEDs won't be as bad as red LEDs, as they are closer to other colors and will blend better.

 

Adding more individual colors into the mix gets us back into another problem that some people bring up; color shadows. More colors equals more shadows. The ideal solution would be to find the right combination of colors, but using the least amount possible.

 

Why hasn't this been done already? Much of it came down to the fact that early on in the DIY movement, there wasn't much available outside of cool white LEDs for reasonable prices, or reasonable outputs. As the LED landscape has changed (both in the industry, and the DIY community), more options have become available. The steamroller had already started moving, and the accepted norm has been to use cool white LEDs. Now, I'm not going to say that they don't produce good results, as I personally have had a lot of luck with them, but I've also been one to mention that there is something missing in the color of certain corals. Granted, I've been chasing the UV end of things, but adding more red could be the answer to many of the problems. It just has to be done efficiently.

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on half the bulbs i'm running 40 optics, this is mainly to keep PAR at the levels it needs to be to keep the sps growing but does cause a little spotlight effect

 

The custom blue and neutral white bulbs have 60 optics since i was going for a color overlap and not just PAR, i am also waiting on 4 All Royal blue bulbs with 60 optics as well, just have to wait until they get here...which could be another 2-3 weeks at that time i'll also be getting 4 20k bulbs with 40 optics to add more PAR and try to fillout the left side of the tank

 

So far i'm happy with the lights, and if i happen to get my hands on a PAR meter again i might end up raising the track setup up another inch or two, cause that would help out with the spotlighting effect and also give me more coverage

 

But honestly i've veiwed the tank so much that i'm used to the effect of the spotlighting and in person it just looks so much more natural than a MH flooding the tank with light

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Like Evil said. If I turn the red to 700mA its a little on the distracting side. Running both Cyan and Red @ 350mA has created some more pop.

 

I hope to have some more readings soon. I just got these up last night to test on the go but will be putting them in a certain fixture of mine :)

 

Is it easiest to scrape off the thermal pads with a new razor?

 

-Dave

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Beeker, I don't know if you posted enough pictures :lol:

 

On topic though, higher color temperature whites certainly won't be the answer. The biggest issue that seems to be coming out right now is the lack of red spectrum. While adding in red LEDs can be one solution, it can be horribly distracting. The red LEDs would need to be on their own driver, and run at very low currents to not be overpowering. Running higher CRI neutral whites could be a better, more subtle solution, or at least a combination of cool whites and neutrals. Not sure about the need for cyan though. most white LEDs do actually dip into that range, albeit not in as much quantity as a raw cyan LED. Using discrete cyan LEDs won't be as bad as red LEDs, as they are closer to other colors and will blend better.

 

Adding more individual colors into the mix gets us back into another problem that some people bring up; color shadows. More colors equals more shadows. The ideal solution would be to find the right combination of colors, but using the least amount possible.

 

Why hasn't this been done already? Much of it came down to the fact that early on in the DIY movement, there wasn't much available outside of cool white LEDs for reasonable prices, or reasonable outputs. As the LED landscape has changed (both in the industry, and the DIY community), more options have become available. The steamroller had already started moving, and the accepted norm has been to use cool white LEDs. Now, I'm not going to say that they don't produce good results, as I personally have had a lot of luck with them, but I've also been one to mention that there is something missing in the color of certain corals. Granted, I've been chasing the UV end of things, but adding more red could be the answer to many of the problems. It just has to be done efficiently.

 

 

Hey clive tell chris and nick to get to work i'm still waiting on 8 more PAR38's lol :]]

 

4 all royal blues and 4 20ks

 

IMO i think your close to what leds are needed Evil, i'm really happy with the cool blue and neutral white additions, i honestly believe i need more Royal blue in my mix to get the colors to be Vibrant and Deep, but i also think warm white and neutral white play a decent role, but i've never had problems with the color Red on my sps, even when they were just under the 12k bulbs my reds were still good

 

It leads me to believe that cyan, cool blue, royal blue, and warm white is whats going to bring out the powder tones and pastel colors

 

but i'd love to take 5 frags of red planet and grow each frag under a different color led

 

like a warm white, neutral white, cool blue, royal blue and cool white, just to know what color of led brings out in the red planet frag

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Like Evil said. If I turn the red to 700mA its a little on the distracting side. Running both Cyan and Red @ 350mA has created some more pop.

 

I hope to have some more readings soon. I just got these up last night to test on the go but will be putting them in a certain fixture of mine :)

 

Is it easiest to scrape off the thermal pads with a new razor?

 

-Dave

A razor and some MEK for cleanup does the job.

 

Hey clive tell chris and nick to get to work i'm still waiting on 8 more PAR38's lol :]]

 

4 all royal blues and 4 20ks

 

IMO i think your close to what leds are needed Evil, i'm really happy with the cool blue and neutral white additions, i honestly believe i need more Royal blue in my mix to get the colors to be Vibrant and Deep, but i also think warm white and neutral white play a decent role, but i've never had problems with the color Red on my sps, even when they were just under the 12k bulbs my reds were still good

 

It leads me to believe that cyan, cool blue, royal blue, and warm white is whats going to bring out the powder tones and pastel colors

 

but i'd love to take 5 frags of red planet and grow each frag under a different color led

 

like a warm white, neutral white, cool blue, royal blue and cool white, just to know what color of led brings out in the red planet frag

I can see cyan maybe helping with some pastel colors. I just don't like that fact that you would need so many drivers and adjustments to get the color right. We might just be chasing our tails with all this, and the real solution would be a custom LED. That won't be cheap, or easy to get.

 

Time to do this right! Spectrometer is on its way!

What did you get? Hopefully it's not that cheap little plastic one sold on some of the science retail sites :lol: I bought that one a while back for giggles. It's fun, but hard to use on LEDs.

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Solarflare8806

This is a great topic.

 

I'm really interested in finding ways to really make corals look great while also maintaining PAR. I'm new to HO LEDs so I have little experience there but I have played a little with flourescent lighting for your home.

 

I'm really big into saving energy and stuff so I really like CFL lighting for your home. The only thing is I don't really like the color temps that manufactorers offer. Most of the lower temps are too red and the whiter/bluer ones make your place look like a hospital so for a few years I get two or three different colored bulbs and combo them in a fixture.

 

DSC01255.jpg

 

I guess this is kinda irrelevant though just thought id share :happy:

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What did you get? Hopefully it's not that cheap little plastic one sold on some of the science retail sites :lol: I bought that one a while back for giggles. It's fun, but hard to use on LEDs.

 

Yes it is one of the cheaper spectrometers. -_- But it is still going to be worthwhile and I feel will provide a good deal of info. It came recommended from advanced aquarist and I have seen examples of it used on various different lighting sources including LEDs and has provided good results.....

 

If it ends up being completly worthless I will rent a Jaz or something like that for a week or two.

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Evil after i get these 8 bulbs and have them for 2-3 months and figure out if they help color or not

 

i might look into a custom bulb thats 1 cool blue, 1 royal blue and 3 cyan

 

i told nick they should just offer 1 PAR38 bulb with 1 cool white, 1 neutral white, 2 royal blue and 1 cool blue in 1 bulb, IMO this bulb would be the perfect combo for a PAR38 from seeing what blend i've got over my own tank or take out 1 royal blue and replace it with a cyan

 

this would offer you 5 spectrums in 1 bulb which isn't a bad idea ;)

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More LEDs came in so here are some more color comparisons. I added some different color stones for some reference. They don’t react to the light like corals do but it is a start until I get the driver unit and the PSU all hooked up and can put it over the tank.

Hopefully next week I will go back and capture the analog spectrometer output of these and post the results.

 

Cree NW

Cree_NW.JPG

 

Cree CW

Cree_CW.JPG

 

10000K White

10000K.JPG

 

K2 Cyan

Cyan.JPG

 

Cree Blue

Cree%20Blue.JPG

 

Cree RB

Cree_RB.JPG

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after seeing your color post i honestly believe cyan to be the next color needed in my PAR38's to keep coral colors Vibrant on my sps

 

Cyan is green/blue, but when compared to the cool blue and royal blue it leads me to believe that cyan would be a good color to help enhance sps colors under cool white leds

 

A mix of Cyan, royal blue, and cool blue would be the perfect blend with cool white

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Just be careful with how you try and blend all those colors. My first test unit had 1.25" spacing with Blue,RB,NW,Cyan and Red but you could see the color shadowing.

 

Trying two RB with one NW looked VERY good but you need to have them ~.5" apart. Maybe adding one cluster of NW, RB, Cyan could give a cool effect. The biggest problem is ordering these select colors are the exact binning and labeling. Some of the Cyan's are going to be more green because we are only ordering 1-100 at a time. To get the exact color your looking for we would have to order a real ( 1000+ ).

 

Also try some of the Rebel NW, I swear they look better ;)

 

I hope to have some custom 3 up rectangles in my hands soon. Keeping the spacing under 1/2".

 

Hope this helps, I'm sure evil can pipe in even more about this.

 

-Dave

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Just be careful with how you try and blend all those colors. My first test unit had 1.25" spacing with Blue,RB,NW,Cyan and Red but you could see the color shadowing.

 

Trying two RB with one NW looked VERY good but you need to have them ~.5" apart. Maybe adding one cluster of NW, RB, Cyan could give a cool effect. The biggest problem is ordering these select colors are the exact binning and labeling. Some of the Cyan's are going to be more green because we are only ordering 1-100 at a time. To get the exact color your looking for we would have to order a real ( 1000+ ).

 

Also try some of the Rebel NW, I swear they look better ;)

 

I hope to have some custom 3 up rectangles in my hands soon. Keeping the spacing under 1/2".

 

Hope this helps, I'm sure evil can pipe in even more about this.

 

-Dave

 

 

Yes but arent you using optics on your LEDs? Optics are going to screw with the color blending no doubt about that. I am not using nor plan on using optics so I hope I will not run into as many color blending issues. But we shall see once I get it put together.

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i'd just ask nanocustoms to make me some PAR38's like that, it would take them a little time but i'm sure it can be done, i'll look into it when i go to order some more in the next few months cause i'm interested and am sure i could use a little more color fill for my sps

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Its more on the shadowing. Take a Coke can and place a piece of paper over it. Then put the lights over it and you will see what I mean. If you put them to far apart you see it more and with more and more colors/spectrums it will be even more apparent. This is with and without optics too. Keeping them closer will help this a TON.

 

-Dave

 

Yes but arent you using optics on your LEDs? Optics are going to screw with the color blending no doubt about that. I am not using nor plan on using optics so I hope I will not run into as many color blending issues. But we shall see once I get it put together.
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