How does my sump design look? NOW WITH WATER!

[bitts]

Nice.

 

Your siliconing looks better than the job I did on mine. we'll have to figure out how you cheated.

 

How long do you plan to let it sit.

[ajmckay]

Hahaha...

 

2 things.

 

I dip my finger in rubbing alcohol before smoothing a joint, and I used a dowel (plastic coat hanger is what I had though) to smooth the silicone between the baffles. The silicone I used has a pretty long working time as well (though it still does a great job of keeping things in place!).

 

I'll probably let it sit close to a week before I do any major testing. I used RTV108 and according to the data sheet curing time is about 24 hours with full strength taking up to 7 days. I applied a little stress to the back panel about 24 hours after I did it and I could tell that full strength had not been achieved.

 

So other than waiting the only thing I need to do is silicone on the bottom trim (tonight), procure a bulkhead (1.5") and some plumbing parts, and test 'er! I'm also considering cutting up a few 2" triangle pieces of glass to use as mini braces in some of the joints just to reinforce them, especially since I used 2 pieces of glass.

 

This should give me some time this weekend to focus on finishing the stand.

[kgoldy]

Hey, just got back...

 

Lookin good, aj. Hopefully I'll get mine set up over the next week...

 

What's the placement on your hole for the pipe, and why there? I was thinking of putting mine closer to the wall on the right side (when facing the front) to prevent that area from becoming a dead (flow) spot.

[ajmckay]

Welcome back.

 

Haha... Funny you should ask about the hole placement. Well it was actually planned to be about 4" from the right side, but at the last minute I made an executive decision to flip the panel around because I painted the wrong side black!! Well I could have just flipped it over vertically, but then the joint between my 2 panels wasn't as good. So I sacrificed the location of the hole for strength and aesthetics in the front. I'll be using some prop. pumps in the fuge area anyways so I'm not worried about any dead spots just yet.

 

Overall I'm extremely happy at how the sump turned out. It's had a few days to cure now and I went down and wiggled things and it all seems fairly stable now. I think I'm about ready for a leak test!!

 

Oh and I almost forgot... While cutting the glass and triple checking my measurements I found out that the large piece is actually 27.25" long, not 27.5". This extra .25" allows for the little 1.5" cap for the baffles to fit in there. If there's one thing I've really learned in this process it's use the right tools and take your time cutting the glass. Fortunately I was able to make it work but I had to compromise my original designs slightly.

[kgoldy]

Glad to hear the measurement change before I got the chance to cut my glass (or, err... buy it at all). Apparently weekends aren't a good time around me for glass shops, so yesterday's search for 1/4" was fruitless.

 

So- the -bottom- of the hole for the pipe is at 5" from the bottom? I know you mentioned having a 5" deep sandbed...

 

Also, when removing the bottom rim from your 30B... I'm assuming the walls and floor of the tank are all flush? I haven't attempted surgery on the aquarium just yet- the whole rimless thing is new to me. Removing it is going to give me an extra inch of space for the skimmer, so I've convinced myself it's not just for aesthetic purposes- it's practical. Haha.

[ajmckay]

Yeah most glass shops are closed on weekends. I've never found anywhere else though that sells that thick of glass.

 

Fortunately it doesn't cost too much.

 

As for the hole, it's probably around 6" high. I'm not 100% sure of the actual sand bed depth at the moment but I wanted to leave some space for either a strainer or I'll make my own out of egg crate and a PVC pipe section (to keep crap from getting into the return chamber)

 

Finally, removing the bottom trim is easy, you just need to stick a razor between the trim on the bottom of the tank and go around. It's the top piece that's a pain to remove.

 

My stand is flush, but I'll probably end up keeping the bottom trim piece on (re-siliconing it on that is). Mostly just because I have the trim piece already and it's in-tact. I could leave it off, but I'm not confident that my stand is 100% exactly perfect just yet (I'll test it out sometime this week to make sure everything is within tolerances). If I were to leave the bottom trim off I would probably just stick a thin piece of yoga mat underneath to provide more even support and take up any little peaks or valleys that might exist either in the plywood or otherwise. I'll have this thing running soon I can feel it! I've got more trim cut and ready today to be glued down but right now I'm on baby duty until my wife gets back (hopefully soon). Look for new pics tonight either on this thread or the 40b contest thread.

[kgoldy]

Got my 1/8" baffles from Ace today, and found a glass guy who runs a business out of his home for all the 1/4", who will cut and drill the rest for me this week. He said he's got a 1-3/16" hole saw and a 2" hole saw- nothing between...

 

Think a 2" hole is too large? I found the PVC hardware I need that will fit, which through fittings I reduced down to a 1-1/4" pipe (interior measurement)...

 

 

Also- I went searching the forums for what type of silicone is best... And I bought GE Silicone I. Any thoughts on that stuff? Most of the brands I saw you guys (aj and bitts) discussing when I did the search weren't in Home Depot... But I see that many people say GE Silicone 1 is tried and true...

[ajmckay]

kg,

 

Sounds like your sump is coming along well.

 

I believe the standard hole size for a 1" bulkhead is 1-7/8" Goto BRS and they have the measurements there. Whether the additional 1/8" if the 2" hole saw is used will make a difference or not I don't know, but I'm inclined to think that it probably won't.

 

Also, I'm not sure what you mean about PVC reducers? What size bulkheads are you going to get? The one in the link above is the one I will be getting. I drilled 1-7/8" holes in my tank for the drains and a 1" hole for the return (using a 1/2" bulkhead).

 

As for silicone, I saw GE 1 at HD, and I was going to use it, but on the label it says "not for use in aquariums". Now I realize that people still use it with success, but I was feeling a little queasy still since I'm not an expert at silicone. There's a Grainger right by my work and we get pretty good deals there so I went there to buy the RTV. You usually have to find an industrial supplier or something to order those types of silicone. I'm sure the GE 1 will work fine though for internal baffles. My primary concern was for the back pane of the sump which I had to replace.

 

Oh, and check the 40b contest thread for stand pics

[kgoldy]

Because HD doesn't have bulkheads (at least that I saw) I was thinking of going with this.

 

It should work the same way, right? This is only the piece that's going to be from the display chamber to the return chamber of the sump, so I was thinking it wouldn't be necessary to order a bulkhead like the one in your link.

 

As far as reducing, I used a 90` elbow right after my bulkhead thing (the piece in the link above) and it has threads in it... which I'll be screwing in a piece for my pipe. I'll take pictures when I get home from work since as I'm typing this, I'm realizing it's not making much sense... Blah.

[ajmckay]

kg, I feel like a moron. I'm using 1" bulkheads for my drains. You were talking about the in-sump bulkhead... for that one I used a 1.5" bulkhead and I made a 2-3/8" hole for that.

 

If you order online Bulkreefsupply is having a good sale such that a 1.5" bulkhead is only like $4.50.

 

You could use the HD one, but if you do be sure you're careful with it. Part of the reason bulkheads have that big flange is so that the hole can be bigger. You don't want the hole to be exactly the same size as the bulkhead or else the slightest movement could crack the glass. Also the flange serves to distribute any force to more glass than a bulkhead with a thin flange. So as long as you're confident that the flange is large enough (maybe you could make a large "washer" from rubber or acrylic or something) and you can measure the hole size needed I think it should be fine.

 

Look forward to the pics.

[kgoldy]

Yeah, I'm probably going to make an acrylic washer to distribute the pressure. I can dremel/sand down the PVC to give it a little room for flexing, that I can fill with GE I.

[kgoldy]

So it looks like you painted all the way to the edges of the glass, then siliconed them in... How's it gripping on the spray paint?

 

I was thinking of taping off a quarter inch around the edges, painting the rest, then use black silicone to give it a real neat looking appearance without the risk of a poor grab on the glass. This way silicone is always gripping glass- not paint, and everything is still black.

 

Here's the pieces I got... I'm thinking maybe I'll just have to order a bulkhead like you have, aj. Think this will work, or no?

 

Pieces apart...

 

Just so you can see the threads- this part screws together...

 

The pencil represents a PVC pipe, and the notepad represents the glass. Use your imagination bone. Haha.

[kgoldy]

100% silicone, watertight seal, no anti-fungal stuff, ASTM C-920, CLASS 25, TYPE S, GRADE NS (WTF does that mean?)

 

This is a good thing, right? "Safe for food contact: when cured and washed, ingredients which remain or which could migrate to food are listed on FDA Regulation No. 21 CFR 177.2600."

 

...and yes, those are ants on my pajama pants.

[ajmckay]

I spray painted right to the edge (but not the edge)... I haven't had any problems so far though I did make sure to press all edges hard against the glass (I believe the edges are where the bulk of the adhesion comes from, and the fillets are more for helping seal the joints). Everything fit really snug except for a small gap of around 1/16" which I stuck in the middle where it's supported by the cross brace.

 

So my conclusion is that the paint hasn't really affected adhesion that much. I did use a high quality paint with probably 5 or 6 coats which were allowed ample time to cure.

 

As for your silicone, looks fine to me. I think almost anything reef safe should be fine for in-sump use. I would have gotten black stuff, but it would cost an extra $8 or so...

 

Finally, the bulkhead solution you have is interesting. I'm not sure how well it will work, but when you get your glass you can test it out. BRS is having a sale on bulkheads for $4.50 1.5" so that's pretty good IMO and it would cost just as much to fabricate something from PVC from the hardware store.

 

Oh, and nice (p)ants.

[bitts]

Sorry I don't have much time to go in depth but think the pvc bulkhead is a nogo.

[kgoldy]

Any updates or pics, AJ?

 

Just got my glass today... Going to be painting and silicon-ing tonight. Pics coming when I'm done.

[ajmckay]

No real updates to the sump. I have made some updates to the contest tank thread (mostly where the stand stuff is). Right now I'm just letting the sump chill until I can gather some more funds for the plumbing as I'm basically broke for the rest of the month. Sucks.

 

My next plans are to focus on and finish the stand. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work to be done on it though. I'm confident I can finish it before the end of this month though as I don't really need to buy anything else, just find time to put it together. I am looking forward to your build though! I'll check it later for updated pictures.

[kgoldy]

I'm thinking of tossing my 1/8" baffles and getting all 1/4"... the latter makes me feel like I'll be avoiding headaches down the road. Did you end up going all quarter inch, aj?

[ajmckay]

I used 1/4" for everything but the baffles, which I used 3/32 for (std. plate window glass).

 

Since they're so small and the water level will be even on both sides I don't think there will be any issues. I installed them tight, and after the installation they seem to be pretty strong. I also used the thinner glass so I could minimize (it's only 1-1/2" deep) the space taken up by the baffles while maximizing the flow. If I would have used 1/4" glass, I would have had to make it an inch deeper to get the same amount of potential throughput, either that or it would be moving through too fast and possibly make noise. see the paint model below:

[B.C.]

Goldy, I dont know if your aware of it but that Dap silicone says its not recommended for continuous underwater use.

 

Aj,hows everything coming along with yours??

[kgoldy]

Goldy, I dont know if your aware of it but that Dap silicone says its not recommended for continuous underwater use.

 

Aj,hows everything coming along with yours??

 

Yeah, I noticed, I was thinking it may be likely that DAP didn't want to be responsibile for bonds breaking due to under water pressure- which isn't much in a 10 inch deep sump. That being said, I'm not using it... going to stick with the GE 1 because it's the most tried and true stuff locally available.

[ajmckay]

Hey B.C.

 

As you can see things are coming along... Unfortunately I probably won't get much done this week though. I got the sump pretty much finished really... I just need to decide whether I want to use the bottom black trim piece or have it completely rimless, and then buy a bulkhead for it... Once I get that I can do a leak test and test the water flow through.

 

So for now I'm just working on the stand. So check on that thread for most of the new updates.

 

As for the DAP silicone, I'm not sure what to thing... The tube of GE1 I saw also said not for aquariums or continuous underwater use, yet according to what I find that's the most common type used even for tank manufacturers. Then again this is for a sump baffle... So as long as it isn't toxic there really isn't going to be much force applied, so the type of silicone IMO is not of consequence.

 

I only used RTV108 because I had to re-attach the entire back panel.

[kgoldy]

I'm impatiently waiting your wet trials... And I think I found a skimmer that'll work for me.

 

AquaC EV-120

[ajmckay]

They're coming soon

 

Maybe even next week if I can get the bulkheads ordered.

[ajmckay]

Sorry I completely spaced the skimmer you posted...

 

I think that looks like an awesome skimmer for a 75g... I was seriously considering one of those except they're a little too expensive for what I was looking to spend.