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How does my sump design look? NOW WITH WATER!


ajmckay

  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the sump as it's designed a go or a no go?

    • Go
      13
    • No go
      7
  2. 2. How about the baffles? (multiple choices allowed)

    • Doesn't matter
      6
    • They'll work as you have them planned 1/8" glass spaced 1/4" apart
      3
    • You should increase only the baffle spacing
      9
    • You should increase only the baffle thickness
      1
    • They won't work as you have them planned
      4


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Z, which sump design are you referring to? Note that on the 1st page I switched designs from the paint drawing. You're right that initially I wanted the water to flow from the skimmer to the return to the fuge then back to the return, however this is the most current design, which is actually simpler IMO. sump1.jpg

 

The water enters the sump from the display tank into the skimmer chamber. If you're looking directly at the sump (I mean from the front, not at the angle pictured above), it's the left small chamber before the bubble trap. The water flows through the bubble trap into the display refugium/frag grow-out area (the big chamber). Finally the water flows through and up the tube into the return chamber, where it will be pumped back into the display tank.

 

Goldy: What are the dimensions of your 75? As bitts said you could increase the depth of the stand, or couldn't you just flip the stand 180? Make the back the front and the front the back (as long as that's the completed design and you weren't planning on adding additional structural support back there)...

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My cabinet yesterday...

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Cabinet today...

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Unfortunately, I won't be able to add depth to the cabinet and add side doors, as it's already stained and I'm trying to keep the exterior in it's current condition. The new hole in front is -almost- large enough for the sump to be pulled out, but really, once it's installed through the back it's staying there unless it explodes or something. If I ever for some reason need to pull it out while the display still has water in it, I can do a little trimming with a dremel and it'll slide right through.

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Why are you doing the Pipe design which might have been covered? Do another bubble trap on the exit to try and limit the return micro bubbles?

 

I like this design and will be using it in a more compact area which will be used with a SOlana 34 (Modified basically took out the false wall for space and more water volume). I have a temporary sump below but I need more room for the Refugium. So i am making a (16 X 19 X 12 approx) sump that will go under the cabinet.

 

Just a thought.

 

"Z"

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Now what I'm curious about is if I have enough clearance for a skimmer to go in and out of that first chamber. I've got 6 inches of clearance underneath my rear support... and 12 inches otherwise. The rear support only hangs down over the back two inches of the sump... Will this be in the way, aj?

 

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Why are you doing the Pipe design which might have been covered? Do another bubble trap on the exit to try and limit the return micro bubbles?

 

The height of the top of that tube sets the water level for all previous chambers. This way, evaporation only affects the last chamber. I wondered the same thing... answer is in above convo.

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looking good man! I still want to see a finished video. If you can.

 

Also you were worried about cutting the front, however, majority of the weight is supported by the 2 X 4's.

 

One more question about the pipe. Is it open on the bottom and top or just the top?

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looking good man! I still want to see a finished video. If you can.

 

Also you were worried about cutting the front, however, majority of the weight is supported by the 2 X 4's.

 

One more question about the pipe. Is it open on the bottom and top or just the top?

 

 

Yeah, the 2x4s were just added today and yesterday after I did all that cutting. Before that, all the weight (of a 90 gallon) was just supported by the sides of the cabinet alone. But there was a crappy 29 high custom fuge that the previous owner had been using, so that left a lot more space on the shelf inside. With the cuts I made, it really needed some extra support, and luckily I had some pressure treated wood laying around.

 

I really hope to finish this by tomorrow before my flight to Italy, so I can start to set up and cycle my tank while I'm not around to deal with the smell. Haha. Doubt it'll happen though... I'm still clueless when it comes to the whole skimmer thing... Waiting for aj to let me know if he thinks it'll fit under my rear support.

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KG, the stand looks awesome! I think it looks even better how you've modified it though.

With regards to the skimmer, the section is designed to almost be able to fit the whole skimmer sideways (the chamber is currently 7.25" wide by 17" long (and the skimmer is 6.75" wide x 19.5" tall). I'll be inserting the skimmer into the sump through the side though, so that works if you visualize inserting it like that. I'll have about 9" of space above the skimmer though (that's all underneath the support beams).

 

Now from the looks of your stand you don't have a lot of room above the sump before you hit the horizontal support beam (The previous guy must have had no room!). I can already tell you that the skimmer I'm using (bubble magus NAC6) won't fit because it's 6.75" wide and so it will hit the rear-most 2" of the tank. Also there isn't enough room to even wedge it under there horizontally by .75". Don't worry though as there are plenty of different skimmers and fortunately they make them in all different sizes. If you want to keep the dimensions of the sump exactly as I've laid out then you just need a narrower skimmer. Maybe something like the AquaC Urchin. You could also consider a style similar to the precision marine bullet series or sealife systems impact series. Of course you could probably find a reef octopus or similar skimmer that would fit as well. I recommend you think about it a little bit and not try to cram it together tonight though. Take some cardboard and using tape or hot glue re-create the sump. Then place it into your stand and you can mess with different sized objects to see what size skimmer you can fit into the sump. It may end up that you need to modify the sump design slightly to suit your needs.

 

Z, I'll be sure to post pics and a video! I love seeing everyone else's pictures, so I wouldn't dream of leaving you guys hanging. I'll also do a video, but that might not be until next week. My wife spent all our money at a discovery toys party the other day so I have to suffer a bit longer to buy more stuff...

 

As for the pipe, it'll be completely open at one end (probably the top) and I'll put a strainer on at the bottom (or maybe the top) so snails or anything can't get into the return pump chamber. There's no worry if the strainer gets clogged up because the water level will just rise another inch and then flow through to the return chamber.

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The purpose for the pipe vs a bubble trap is to minimize the use of space while moving water from lower in the water column. If the sump has more room that can be used for a bubble trap then there would be no reason not to use one. or if you simply prefer to use one. How ever the pipe is fairly simple to install & bubbles can be controled with a sponge.

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Yeah, there's now way I'll have it set up by then, unless someone figured out how to beam me a skimmer to my house tonight. I already did the cardboard mock-up, I'll worry about glass when I get back from my trip. Does Home Depot and that type of store carry 1/4 inch glass?

 

And I apologize for the thread hijack with these thousand photos... Figured anyone following the build might appreciate it though.

 

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I think I'll be spray painting the left and right sides of the 30BR so you don't look through the display and see the inside of the cabinet... Also want to figure out if it's possible to paint the glass between the fuge/display and the skimmer and return chambers. I know people use Krylon spray paint on acrylic that their water touches... does it work on glass? If not, what's a safe way to blacken those panels?

 

Have you thought about doing that, aj?

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Nice cardboard!!! So hopefully you have an idea of what size skimmer you can fit in there.

 

I will be spray painting the back side of the glass panels. I think it should be fine as long as I'm not scraping at it. I'll use a lot of coats as well.

 

Oh, and another update.... I'll probably end up using 1/8" glass for mostly the whole thing... I screwed up and used a crappy $2 glass cutter and they really don't work well on 1/4" glass so I chipped the pane up all over... I actually have a much better one for stained glass that has an oil feed, but I was too lazy to get it. So tonight I'll probably stop by the hardware store and grab some 1/8" glass.. It's a lot cheaper and it's not going to be getting much abuse at all in there.

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one other thing about skimmers is the propper height of the water line. like my euro-reef is suppose to be at 6 inches. with the skimmer being 22 inches. (I think) meaning that the top of the skimmer cup + needed clearance is around 15 inches above the water line.

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one other thing about skimmers is the propper height of the water line. like my euro-reef is suppose to be at 6 inches. with the skimmer being 22 inches. (I think) meaning that the top of the skimmer cup + needed clearance is around 15 inches above the water line.

 

This is an excellent point good sir...

 

The bubble magus NAC6 I'm using says (well IT doesn't say, but the manual does) to operate it in 9-13" of water. So I'll have it flush against the bottom in 10.5" of water...

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Checked out that bubble magnus site you sent... looks like a steal. Too bad it won't fit for me. >:( I might just mess around with things tomorrow and see if I can work something out...

 

Anyone know if it's safe to hack off the rim on an Aqueon 30 breeder? And if so, how to do it safely?

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Yeah the BM is a good deal for what you get. They do have smaller ones which might work for you. I would also really check out the Aqua-C Urchin skimmers as they have a really small footprint. That or some of the Tunze skimmers.

 

As for the rimless 30B it can most certainly be done. The 30B is made with the same glass as the 40B (~1/4") and according to all of my calculations it doesn't need to be nearly that thick. Because it's only 12" tall I think you'll be just fine. I'm actually running mine rimless because I had to remove the rim to replace the back glass pane. I'll probably put back on the bottom rim though so I don't have to put foam under the tank.

 

Unfortunately removing the rim is difficult if you want to save the rim. If you don't care, then get a really thin extend-able razor knife (like the kind where you can snap off a blade if it gets dull and there's a new one underneath - the cheap ones) and on the inside and outside of the tank run it between the plastic and the glass several times until you've cut almost all of the silicone. IME it works best to apply light pressure and do several passes.

 

Then once you have that cut you will use a heavy-duty razor knife to cut a groove through the plastic centered right in the top of the trim along the glass - be careful not to press too hard and stop once you've cut all the way through. You also should cut through the corners on the top to allow the 4 pieces to separate. From there you should be able to pull up on the plastic and it will bend at the groove and with some force it should come off cleanly (you'll hear the silicone tearing). Clean up the silicone with some straight razor blades (new ones) and then use some emery cloth on a sanding block to clean up the top edge and take off any sharp edges.

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Wow I'm dumb.... so I went and got some new glass for the sump internals since I cracked the last piece... Well I screwed up the new piece also... Somehow it just didn't break right and I kinda got pissed off and smashed it :rant: .

 

So I ended up cutting off the screwed up part from the old piece and with some extra 1/4" scrap I will be siliconing them together to seem like 1 piece. I really didn't want to have a seam in the middle, but I still have to buy the plumbing parts so I can't blow my budget on glass. I got all my pieces cut and the hole drilled for the return chamber pipe. I don't have a hole saw (not in the budget) but I had some diamond cut-off discs I got at Harbor Freight so I used those to cut the hole... Took a lot longer but actually worked out pretty good using the Dremel.

 

So tomorrow I'll be painting the glass black on 1 side with some glossy rustoleum spray paint. Here's a question though. Should I spray the whole thing and then silicone together, or should I silicone first and then paint? I'm afraid that if I paint first the adhesion won't be as good if the paint comes loose. But at the same time I know that the paint won't adhere to the silicone for crap. Hmmm... What would you do?

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!!!! Crapsticks! So I started spray painting my baffles... and I discovered that there are little tiny tiny spots all over the glass where the paint didn't stick... If you put it up to the light it looks like a starry night...

 

I analyzed a separate piece of glass to see what it was and they're just little dots... I have no clue what they are but they don't wipe off with rubbing alcohol, just a razor blade.

 

So should I scrape and re-paint or keep it looking like a starry sky? hmmm...

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just did my sump/fuge, make sure to reinforce th baffle the return chamber. mines bowing enough that i wouldnt be comfortable with it in a larger tank.

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Hey Bitts...

 

Actually I'm using 1/4" glass for everything except the bubble trap. For those I'm using 3/32... I couldn't find 1/8" at any hardware stores and no glass shops in my area are open on the weekend (impatient, I know...). But the baffles are only 8x10, so I think that'll be fine.

 

I'm really cheezed about the paint not sticking in spots though... I think in the morning I'm going to be scraping. Fortunately it shouldn't be too hard with a nice clean razor blade.

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Dude you've already helped enough... I pretty much changed my design due to your comments (though that was what I was almost expecting to happen).

 

Anyways I re-painted the glass yesterday (it still turned out crappy, but I don't think it'll matter when coralline starts growing all over) and tonight I'll be siliconing it all in place. I'm excited to get this done!

 

On another front though I'm broke off my a$$ so I probably won't get any further than that for a few weeks. It sucks, but on the plus side it's only enhancing my ability to remain patient. The only thing I really have to buy still for this build are a few smaller items for the stand (hinges, trim boards, etc) and the plumbing supplies and bulkheads.

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AJ you welcome

 

as to the glass still hate not being able to come up with an answer is all.

couple of tricks since your siliconing.

run a thin bead across the top edge of any baffle that is does not have an exposed weir. this helps prevent those annoying cuts you get when doing maintenance.

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UPDATES! Okay so I installed the baffles tonight! I think everything went together fairly smoothly considering it's my first time making my own sump out of glass. There was roughly a 1/32 gap in the width of the divider walls, so I arranged it such that the gap is right in the middle where it's supported by the perpendicular support (the one that's not painted).

 

So here's the pics:

Attaching the new back pane:

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