ORA aquacultured spotted Mandarin Goby

[19jeffro83]

Congrats on the new pair wam. Hope all works out well with them.

[wamb0010]

Congrats on the new pair wam. Hope all works out well with them.

 

Thanks. So far so good. The male is extremely fat. I hope he's eating some of the accoel flatworms I have!

[19jeffro83]

good stuff keep us updated. ill be looking into getting a male sometime soon.

[Wence]

Any updates on how everyone's fish are doing? I just ordered one off of Diver's Den on Thursday and got him this morning. He is very skinny and didn't eat tonight when I finally turned the lights on (I've tried Nutramar OVA, Cyclopeeze, Mysis and Baby Brine... the latter two he was said to have been eating). He's swimming around checking things out and doesn't look stressed, so hopefully it's just first day jitters. I'll try him again in the morning and see what happens.

[19jeffro83]

I went and picked up a male it was dead two days later. It would just sit there and let my wild caught female pick and pick at it. I tried to separate it in a fish holder. For two day it sat in one place. Set up a holding tank next morning it was dead. I think mine was an inbred idiot. Will not try these fish again.

[Wence]

That's too bad 19jeffro83.

 

Mine still won't eat this morning. He's fine and looks energetic and is not the least bit shy or troubled by anything else in the tank (actually moved up to the front when I stuck my hand in to check out what was going on), but is literally just starng at the food dropping right in front of him and still doesn't seem to have any interest with it having it sat there for a few minutes (which is about as long as I can hold off the Cleaner Shrimp... I may try the bottle top method I use on a few corals, but he honsetly doesn't seem to mind my hand or them when they come over, he just doesn' seem to recognize what I am putting in as food). I had ordered the Nutramar beforehand knowing that I would be looking to pick one of these up as a Christmas gift to myself, and am turning the pumps off and trying a wide variety of foods. I hope he eats in the next few days, because despie lots of live rock, my tank does not have many pods.

[Rehype]

Ive had mine for about 2 months now. He eats frozen brine and mysis without any reservations..

 

[Wence]

Nice looking fish Rehype. Here's a shot of mine:

 

 

Let's hope he decides to eat something this evening...

[mikel]

You guys both have two very nice looking spotted mandarins. I have had mine for more than 3.5 months now, and he is like a sausage, and he has a blue mandarin roommate in a 20 L tank who is smaller but also like a suasage. They both eat Ova and cyclopeeze, and whatever they can find live in this dedicated tank just for them. I posted some pics in the earlier pages of this thread, but my pics are no where as nice as both of yours. It really saddens me when I read some people's mandarins dying on them.....I have also seen pics of starved mandarins who died. Gruelsome.....

[19jeffro83]

Mine looked great till it died too.

 

And a wild caught I trained and had for 8 months.

[Fish Bowl]

The ORA mandarins are definitely a hit or miss on eating as advertised. Of the 20 we ordered at my store only about half of them even bothered accepting any kind of frozen let alone dry foods (including Prawn eggs and Mysis which aren't that hard to get them to eat), not to mention some of them look quite skinny upon arrival.

 

To be blunt:

Pros:

MAY eat prepared foods initially

Doesn't take away any from natural habitats and doom them to inexperienced hobbyist about 70% of the time or let them rot away in whole sellers warehouses just because they're too skinny to buy.

Cons:

Extremely expensive compared to the regular wild caught ones.

MAY NOTeat prepared foods

You technically don't get to pick your fish like you would at a whole seller (or in everyone elses case you can still pick from the retailer) so there still will be some really skinny almost deathly looking ones here and there.

You might have to pay more money just to end up having to train it yourself.

 

So in conclusion (Specifically for those anxious to jump the gun on these), BE PREPARED for anything such as but not limited to:

1-Having to spend time every day training the fish (if it doesn't eat frozen or dry or whatever it is you want to feed it) And if you really care about them, please get them off brine someday preferably as soon as possible.

2-If ordered online and not picked from an LFS, a fish that is considered "Too Far Gone" by many although most online places provide alive for whatever guarantee periods (But that doesn't mean you can just sacrifice one of these until you get the one that eats)

 

So hopefully I made some people who think "Oh I can just get a tank raised one and it will live in my 10 gallon just like nemo will" reconsider just jumping the gun without doing adequate research to care for them in the "worst case scenarios".

 

Edit: I feel a bit left out not sharing the 2 mandarins I kept out of the near 30 I have trained. So here's my male and female (the female will almost never let herself get caught on camera let alone on my dumpy camera phone)

Edit 2: I forgot to mention these are NON ORA tank raised and I have had them for almost a year and 2 months (2 months as of January 12th). They both eat strictly New Life Spectrum Thera A+ 1 mm and Finicky Fish Formulas (just because I hate using anything that not a nutrient rich pellet or Nori unless if I have to.)

[MedicBMC]

Very well put fishbowl!

[basser1]

Wence... I hope yours eats soon to. Since you got your mandarin from LiveAquaria, keep in mind they do have a 14 day guarantee.

[Fish Bowl]

That's too bad 19jeffro83.

 

Mine still won't eat this morning. He's fine and looks energetic and is not the least bit shy or troubled by anything else in the tank (actually moved up to the front when I stuck my hand in to check out what was going on), but is literally just starng at the food dropping right in front of him and still doesn't seem to have any interest with it having it sat there for a few minutes (which is about as long as I can hold off the Cleaner Shrimp... I may try the bottle top method I use on a few corals, but he honsetly doesn't seem to mind my hand or them when they come over, he just doesn' seem to recognize what I am putting in as food). I had ordered the Nutramar beforehand knowing that I would be looking to pick one of these up as a Christmas gift to myself, and am turning the pumps off and trying a wide variety of foods. I hope he eats in the next few days, because despie lots of live rock, my tank does not have many pods.

I highly recommend reading this and preparing yourself to train it at this rate.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=256327

I wish you luck with your Mandarin and hope it eats sometime soon.

[Wence]

Thanks for the link Fish Bowl, I read through it and will give some of the methods a try if he's still not eating tomorrow. Tonight, I tried mixing in some different pellets as well, but despite swimming up to the pipet I use to feed, he still just watches food fall right in front of him like he doesn't recognize it as something to eat (even the prawn eggs... and he doesn't seem to be picking at anything later either).

 

The reminder on the LiveAquaria guarantee is appreciated basser1. There is not an LFS within two hours+ of here besides Petco, so I knew I'd be getting mine online. I've purchased from LiveAquaria several times over the years, but have never had to use the guarantee (and hope I won't have to this time either). If this fish ends up dying, I don't know that I'll have the heart to try another one if replacement is the only option.

[mikel]

Hay jeffro: Sorry to hear that your spotted mandarin died. It looked just like mine when I first bought it. What I did was look around and called all the stores I could drive to around my area, then went to each of the store and looked at the fish. From my research I knew how a starving mandarin would look, so I searched for telltale signs that the possible fish at the store was already weak or sick or starving. Knowing that they are ORA guarantees nothing, and I wholeheartedly agree.

 

When I first brought my spotted mandarin home, it was also quite shy and hid in the rocks. But because my tank is just a 20 L, with a paired maroon clown and one extra consort swimming around, the new mandarin could not hide for long before he was literally being pushed around the cave cavities....the maroons were spawning, and I was very very lucky that the big female did not make minced sausage out of the new mandarin. In fact, after a while, she became quite protective of him, and even attacked my hands while I tried to target feed the mandarin in the cave. She was constantly spawning, and I would notice the mandarin hanging out near the nest all the time, and it was also in these first few days (day 4, I believe) that I saw him eat a Spectrum pellet and some Nutrimar Ova. The Maroon clowns eggs keep disappearing.....After a week, I notice the mandarin had grown significantly, and filled out quite a bit.

 

I have since given my maroon pair away to some nice people because I wanted a dedicated tank for just the mandarins. I also bought a new Ora blue mandarin, These two swim together, hunt together, and sometimes even sleep in the same babyfood jar together. I think both of mine are definitely male (big fins, spine fins flare at each other when they meet up, but do not fight). Maybe because they grew up in a big group at ORA, they are more used to the company, and perhaps that is why the aggression might be less. Or they might just be gay. Who knows, who cares, so long as there is peace in the tank.

 

So, each person has a different experience with them, but definitely not for the beginner.

[Fish Bowl]

Hay jeffro: Sorry to hear that your spotted mandarin died. It looked just like mine when I first bought it. What I did was look around and called all the stores I could drive to around my area, then went to each of the store and looked at the fish. From my research I knew how a starving mandarin would look, so I searched for telltale signs that the possible fish at the store was already weak or sick or starving. Knowing that they are ORA guarantees nothing, and I wholeheartedly agree.

 

When I first brought my spotted mandarin home, it was also quite shy and hid in the rocks. But because my tank is just a 20 L, with a paired maroon clown and one extra consort swimming around, the new mandarin could not hide for long before he was literally being pushed around the cave cavities....the maroons were spawning, and I was very very lucky that the big female did not make minced sausage out of the new mandarin. In fact, after a while, she became quite protective of him, and even attacked my hands while I tried to target feed the mandarin in the cave. She was constantly spawning, and I would notice the mandarin hanging out near the nest all the time, and it was also in these first few days (day 4, I believe) that I saw him eat a Spectrum pellet and some Nutrimar Ova. The Maroon clowns eggs keep disappearing.....After a week, I notice the mandarin had grown significantly, and filled out quite a bit.

 

I have since given my maroon pair away to some nice people because I wanted a dedicated tank for just the mandarins. I also bought a new Ora blue mandarin, These two swim together, hunt together, and sometimes even sleep in the same babyfood jar together. I think both of mine are definitely male (big fins, spine fins flare at each other when they meet up, but do not fight). Maybe because they grew up in a big group at ORA, they are more used to the company, and perhaps that is why the aggression might be less. Or they might just be gay. Who knows, who cares, so long as there is peace in the tank.

 

So, each person has a different experience with them, but definitely not for the beginner.

I think the maroon pair probably were just defending their nest (with their eggs being eaten when they weren't paying attention since dragonets in the wild do eat some fish eggs) instead of defending the dragonet.

 

I'm glad yours is eating well though and as for the non fighting aspect, whoever is running understands that the other one is the boss of the tank or in some cases with the lack of a female, the males have no reason to compete.

 

Hopefully everyone reads your last sentence since dragonets (tank raised or not) are definitely not beginner fish by any means.

[mikel]

You know it might be helpful to anyone thinking of getting one of the ORA mandarins if ORA sets up a specific site dedicated to the discussion and photo presentation of their mandarins. This shouldnt be hard to do (a link to their main site would be fine), and ORA can provide a moderator, but of course postings cannot be censored so long as rude and vulgarity are screened out. So good and bad news all around for everyone to read...this way, everything is out in the open. ORA can also use this site to communicate any advances they are making in regards to the breeding and the maintenance of the mandarins. I am curious how their two species of CB mandarins are faring in the bigger real world. The only way to tell is for people who have them to tell their stories in one place, and have everyone access that place and get all the information. If they love their little fish as much as I believe they do, and with the patience that they have demonstrated each time I called with questions, then I think they should be open to this idea. It will be a bit of work for them to moderate the site, but I think it will help future owners of their valuable fish. Just a thought. mike

[Wence]

The past three days, I have been trying to "train" my Mandarin to eat frozen food, but so far, I have yet to see him even look like he's considering taking a bite of something. What is so frustrating is the fish seems like he's hungry and swims right up to the pipet I feed with, but then just stares at the food as it falls and sits on the ground. I've placed two small glass containers in areas he frequents, and he will swim into them with the food in there gently blowing against the back, but he won't eat anything (the nassarius snails eventually swarm the containers, but the food lasts for 20-30 minutes and the cleaner shrimp haven't ventured inside one yet). The list of foods I include are as followed (all frozen foods except the pellets): Nutramar OVA, baby brine shrimp, brine shrimp, finely chopped mysis shrimp, bloodworms, cyclops and two types of pellets.

 

LiveAquaria was very nice but not particularly helpful when I asked for details about how they were feeding. They simply stated their records indicated it was eating frozen mysis and brine shrimp and that it might take up to two weeks for the fish to decide to eat. Getting a credit even if he dies a little outside of the two week guarantee doesn't seem to be an issue, but it's certainly not the outcome I want.

 

Even having done my reading, acquiring a fish from a reputable seller that advertised it as eating specific foods and purchasing other recommended food for these fish just in case, things still seem like they will ultimately result in failure. I was prepared for a challenge and don't mind as I tend to baby everything in my tanks anyway, but it's hard to watch something starve to death.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have access to any live foods locally. The only option I can think of is to try and hunt a few 'pods out of a friend's tank, but that seems like a temporary solution at best, or hatch my own brine shrimp, which I might try after Christmas to see if it helps with the training. So far, the fish is still swimming around and seems happy, but I can't imagine that will last long if he doesn't eat soon.

[mikel]

Wence: You and I seem to be very similar in that we really really worry about the animals in our charge. I think you have done a commendable job in making sure to cover all the bases, and I dont think you have overlooked anything. If your fish is swimming and active, then I think he may very well be eating something; you are just not seeing it. I would suggest the following...

 

1) Continue to feed him with a pipette, but find a way to get rid of the CUC, at least for now, because when I first started, I had the filter turned off for a whole 1.5 hour......plenty of time for him to look, sniff, chomp and figure out gradually, push forth by hunger, that the stuff before him is "food". I only had one big snail, which i removed, and one hermit crab, which I keep tossing to the other side of the tank. So the snails and such are cutting short the time that the little guys need to figure out, or "remember" what is "food". Get rid of the CUC for now (place in another tank?).

 

2) I would just focus on the OVA and the cyclopeeze for now. These two items are very small, easily "inhaled" even by accident, so more likely to be "eatened". The two combined are a perfect food anyway. Cyclopeeze is an excellent all around food, and Ova is obviously very high in fat content. So, I would just use Ova and Cyclopeeze...break into tiny cubes, thaw in glass, draw up in pipette, and shoot in familiar area where the fish is (no water movement)...remove the CUC, and give him an hour at least...three times a day to eat unhassled. Your water quality will deteriorate, unless you have a powerful skimmer and/or willing to do weekly water changes of about 10-20%. Once the fish eats the two items, you can simply shoot into glass jar, and have him eat in there. This will minimize the food pollution. HTH. mike

[paneubert]

You could try to buy some live rotifers? I know there is a listing for those on the Seattle area Craigslist if you wanted to try.

[mikel]

In my opinion, I would not go down the live food track. These are suppose to be fish that are familiar with the food on the list. It would be wiser in the long run to try to get them back on that frozen food list than to let them eat live food. Of course, you can spend $20 every week buying live copepods, but that is not the point. JMHO

[basser1]

Not to get off topic..... But here is a cool video of a pair of ORA spotted mandarins foolin' around. Get a load of the females' belly area! She looks like she's ready to pop!!

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/12/17/ora-man...olin-teenagers/

[Wence]

My Mandarin is still alive, though I have yet to see him eat anything. I tried isolating the Nassarius snails (the only members of my CUC that get into the feeding jars... my cleaner shrimp surprisingly continue to stay away from them and the little blue hermit crabs rarely venture down off the live rock... my staghorn hermit crab will try and get in, but he has a hard time maneuvering and is pretty slow in general) and leaving the pumps off for an hour during morning and evening feedings, but the fish still seems to have no interest in eating anything. There is always food left in the jars at the end of these periods, and the Mandarin will swim in and out of them several times while I watch. Thankfully my water quality has stayed good (I have an AquaMaxx HOB skimmer and do water changes every 5-7 days), but I definitely notice more algae growing on the glass than usual. It seems like he has to be eating something, but he has gotten very skinny, and while he continues to swim around and is still curious when I'm messing around in the tank, I think it's just a matter of time.

[Fish Bowl]

My Mandarin is still alive, though I have yet to see him eat anything. I tried isolating the Nassarius snails (the only members of my CUC that get into the feeding jars... my cleaner shrimp surprisingly continue to stay away from them and the little blue hermit crabs rarely venture down off the live rock... my staghorn hermit crab will try and get in, but he has a hard time maneuvering and is pretty slow in general) and leaving the pumps off for an hour during morning and evening feedings, but the fish still seems to have no interest in eating anything. There is always food left in the jars at the end of these periods, and the Mandarin will swim in and out of them several times while I watch. Thankfully my water quality has stayed good (I have an AquaMaxx HOB skimmer and do water changes every 5-7 days), but I definitely notice more algae growing on the glass than usual. It seems like he has to be eating something, but he has gotten very skinny, and while he continues to swim around and is still curious when I'm messing around in the tank, I think it's just a matter of time.

Excuse the late reply, I've been on vacation

If the two methods your using don't work, then I recommend trying a different one. Also, I noticed you mentioned the food is gently blowing in the back, but is it moving as if it were alive? That's the key to all the methods working since not every dragonet will readily eat "dead" stuff. If the frozen still doesn't work out, then it's time to go to square 1 and go with live brine > Frozen > Chopped or Small Mysis/everything else.