Need Advice: 40B drilling, herbie, return

[Deleted User 6]

I just acquired a 40B and I would like to do a corner overflow with herbie-style drain and a back return.

 

I've briefly looked here: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...p;#entry2890605

 

My questions:

 

1. What size holes do I need for the drain and the backup?

2. What size hole for the return?

3. What pump recommendations? (I'll be running an MP40 for the main tank flow)

4. What plumbing parts do I need to pull this whole thing off and where's the best place to get them?

 

I'm a total noob with tank plumbing, so any help is appreciated.

[Deleted User 6]

Bump

[bitts]

I just acquired a 40B and I would like to do a corner overflow with herbie-style drain and a back return.

 

I've briefly looked here: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...p;#entry2890605

 

My questions:

 

1. What size holes do I need for the drain and the backup?

2. What size hole for the return?

3. What pump recommendations? (I'll be running an MP40 for the main tank flow)

4. What plumbing parts do I need to pull this whole thing off and where's the best place to get them?

 

I'm a total noob with tank plumbing, so any help is appreciated.

 

 

What size holes do I need for the drain and the backup?

 

1.) To start there is a relationship between drain size & flow rate. Flow rate is acheaved by the height of the water line above the drain, combined with the size of the drain. I.e. The more water & the larger the drain, the greater the flow.

 

2.) How much flow is wanted through the sump/fuge. There are great debates over what is the ideal flow, but a fuge needs a high dwell time for nutrient transfer. So maby, as much as it pains me to use the term, 5xthe size of the fuge for turn over. Flow can be met by powerheads. Simple sumps have no limitations on there flow behyond micro bubbles, heaters, & skimmer performance.

 

In the over flow thread there I have a link to a flow rate calculater. I'll see if I can add the link here with the blackberry if not will do later.

 

3.) More than likely it will be either a 3/4" or a 1" drain, pearsonaly I like to use the same size drain for both drains. But here's that relationship coming back. As you move the drain closer to top of the tank, the less flow it can handle. So the backup has to be able to handle grater flow than the primary if & when the the drain clogs (Yes the drain will clog). This helps to set where the drains will be Placed. The distance between, height within the overflow, & so on. The back up needs to be low enough to drain while still not having the overflows water line go above the weir (you knew I'd work it in there some how, fancy word for were the water flows over). While the primary needs to have enough distance between its self & the backup to be fully submerged with out creating a vortex sucking bubbles into the drain (that's what makes noise).

 

4.) When drilling tanks. There needs to be, at minimum, the diamiter of the hole between the hole & the edge of the panle being drilled. This is the minimum to not crack the glass. More is better.

 

So figure out how much you want through the sump/fuge. Then put the backup as close to the weir as you can & still achive this flow. Then put the main as low as you can with out cracking the tank. Set water line in overflow with ball valve or gate valve.

 

 

 

 

What size hole for the return?

 

 

1.) This will most likely be the same as the output of the pump. Would expect 1/2" or 3/4".

 

2.) 3/4" or 1" return plumbing can be split then reduced to 1/2" as it enters the tank.

 

3.) Without siphion brakes, or other messures to prevent backflow. The tank will drain to these returns when the pump is shut down.

 

 

 

What pump recommendations? (I'll be running an MP40 for the main tank flow)

 

1.) Normally the least expensive to run. I hate spending money I didn't need to.

I run quiet one pumps for this reason. But to be dead silent eheim is supose to be the best. Untill you steep up to exo's like iwaki (the pretty japaness one) or gen x (the knock off)

 

2.) Eductor nozzles can reduce the size of pump needed to reach a set flow rate without effecting the drains. (Free flow)

 

3.) Never reduce the flow to a pump this will cause the pump to cavatate (bubbles).

 

4.) When picking the pump remember to judge it not only on flow rate but head.

 

 

 

 

What plumbing parts do I need to pull this whole thing off and where's the best place to get them?

 

 

1.) Welcome to the never ending trips to homedepot. Most plumbing will be found at the local box store. Speicalty items like bulkheads will be at the lfs.

 

2.) Peaces parts

Vynal tubing

Hose barb fittings (sevral types. 90? Mpt for the main, reg mpt's for most everything else)

A couple feet pvc

Teflon tape (this is your new best friend. Use a lot & once you have tightend the fitting will need to be replased if lossened)

Bulkheads & screens (no open pipes)

Pvc solvent

90 elbows & other pvc parts

Ball valves/gate valves

Quick conects/true unions

 

 

3.) Air leaks cause asperation (bubbles) make sure to have all joints sealed tight

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are pics of my old ten x ten in my tank thread & more info on water in my sig.

 

Hope this helps. Pm me when there's more questions.

[bitts]

Oh ps a hartford loop is much like the plumbing that leaves a skimmer. The water flows uptwo a tee were the bubbles can exit. While the flows back down from the tee. I'll see if I can find a pic.

[bitts]

Let's see if this works.

 

http://www.grow.arizona.edu/Grow--GrowReso...?ResourceId=188

[bitts]

Ok so found a pic of the hratford loop hopefully the link will work.

 

http://www.nhtres.com/images/loop.jpg

[spanko]

WOW bitts. Nice write up.

[Deleted User 6]

Dag bitts, I'm going to post your post in the sticky too. Amazing - thanks so much for the help!

 

For the record, you're talking about drilling on the back wall, right? Not the bottom? (I should probably drill the back wall anyways now that I'm thinking about it).

[bitts]

Corect back wall for drilling. But same apllys for stand pipes from the bottom.

[Deleted User 6]

is there a benefit of one over the other? back wall vs. stand pipes?

[bitts]

Bottom will normally be tempered before the sides, due to weight & pressure points. But always check to see be for drilling. Sometimes they do it the other way. Planing for some to be drilled & sold as reef ready. As the joke goes if its tempered and you drill it you'll know it.

 

As to benefit. Stand pipes allow the tank to be placed closer to the wall. Functionally not much. When put through the back the overflow can be smaller.

[Deleted User 6]

yeah, it's a standard 40B like you'd get at Petco.

 

for the back, do you mean this?

 

tanks.bmp

 

sorry for the attachment - photobucket doesn't work at my office for some stupid reason.

[bitts]

pics of the diy herbie

 

drains are 1" controlled by ball valve below.

 

 

these are pics of my old ten x ten

 

 

with a 40 they can be spaced further apart.

[Deleted User 6]

sweet. thanks man.

[WorrBaller]

AGA 40b don't have a tempered bottom, but you can check the manufacturers site, they usually have that information. But if it were me I'd drill the back.

 

here is what I did:

Left: Main drain

Right: Emergency

 

Here is the back:

 

Kind of a modified Bean (look on rc) style with a little Herbie thrown in.

Oh and I used 1.5" just to be on the cautious side.

[Deleted User 6]

yeah, looks like 40B isn't tempered bottom. I might do a standpipe because I really want to hide as much plumbing as possible.

 

so i'm thinking 1" bulkheads with standpipes in the back left corner with a tall black acrylic overflow box.

[WorrBaller]

yeah, looks like 40B isn't tempered bottom. I might do a standpipe because I really want to hide as much plumbing as possible.

 

so i'm thinking 1" bulkheads with standpipes in the back left corner with a tall black acrylic overflow box.

 

 

Do eeet! The problem with my setup is it pushes the tank about 8-10" from the wall. Plus with the plumbing you can completely enclose the stand for minimal noise.

 

One thing to think of with the overflow box: make sure there is enough room to fit your hand in. An often overlooked part of the planning.

[Deleted User 6]

ah yeah - really good point. i'll have to measure my hand, lol.

[spanko]

You know what they say about guys with big hands................................................big gloves!

[Deleted User 6]

that rule doesn't apply to me.

[bitts]

The other options for overflow would be coast to coast or exo. Every one pretty well knows my vote.

[Deleted User 6]

haha...i don't. what's your vote?

 

i'm guess exo, but i don't know what that is...

[bitts]

cant seem to find a pic. but its a coast to coast on the backside/outside of the tank. making the weir longer than other methods, too maximize skimate and surface skimming. Instead of drilling holes you cut a weir in the panel. returns can be plumbed through this area to prevent leaks being as problomatic.

[Deleted User 6]

sounds advanced, lol.

[bitts]

you mean fun.