Attention to anyone that is interested in using the PAR38 lamps

[nebthet]

Evil,

 

I have a question in regards to units I can use to plug these bulbs in. You have stated before that an E26/27 screw in lamp that will not cover the bulb is good to use.

 

I know I can go out and buy the track lighting units, but I kinda want to use some of the old aquarium crap I have sitting around my apartment.

 

I read some where that you could use the reptile heat lamps. Would this be an acceptable plug in?

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?...eating#prodTab1

 

What I am thinking of doing, since I already have one of these lamps here, the porcelain ones for heat lamps, and I am going to remove the hood. I already confirmed the bulbs will turn on and off with them.

 

Then I have these old broken T8 light frames, and I want to mount a couple of these bulbs into this frame (not enclosing them), and then have this hanging from my ceiling.

 

The tank I would be putting them over is 36Lx12wx18h. I am going to take 6 inches at the end of this tank and make an internal fuge where I am going to have my skimmer outlet pump the water in, go through carbon and then back out into the tank via Mj900 or 1200. I am also hoping this takes care of any too many bubble issues I have with my skimmer.

 

Is this a plausible idea for my lighting?

 

I have 1 Nanotuners 21w par38 12k bulb, 1 Ice Cooled 27w Par38 12k bulb and I want to get a third one, but don't know if I should get a 20k or another 12k.

What do you think?

 

Thanks for the info Evil and all the work you do.

Much Appreciated.

N.

[Chebon]

...

This generation of lamp will only get new color options, which we are working on...

 

I realize 420nm leds are new and require 500mA but is there any chance we'll see any in a bulb type fixture from you soon?

[evilc66]

Not on this generation of PAR38's.

[jpg29]

is the information for the 5 or 7 LED PAR38 lamps?

 

 

 

 

Okay so PAR38 is has 7...

[redfishsc]

I'm hoping for a PAR38000 to come out, not sure what that means but I'm sure it will be awesome.

 

PAR38 is a number used by the lighting industry to note the type and size of the bulb. PAR, in this case, means something similar to "parabolic aluminized reflector". The 38 refers to the radius of the lens, 38mm (76mm diameter).

 

 

A PAR30 will be smaller, obviously.

[evilc66]

The number refers to the diameter of the lamp in 1/8" increments. A PAR38 is 38 eighths of an inch in diameter (4.75").

 

jpg29, the initial intent of this thread was to educate people about the lamps that I designed. The same basic principles apply to all the PAR3X lamps on the market, but any performance numbers that I have stated here, only apply to my product. PAR38's, at least in the general lighting world, can come in a wide range of LED counts and configurations, from a single LED, to a few hundred low power LEDs.

[Reef-addict]

Awesome! My first post! I've been reading as much as i can process about LEDs in general and the par3x's in particular. A quick question to evil, is it safe to assume the par30's and par38's out there that are driven to lower wattages would produce lower PAR readings proportionally to said wattages? Also, what voltage are your units operating at? About 20V? Thanks

[lgreen]

Funny that I come home and see this thread.

 

I was at Lowes today and overheard a guy asking one of their lighting department employees for help finding a replacement bulb for his bathroom light fixture. So first she took him over to the LED bulbs and gave a pitch as to why they were superior to every other bulb there. When he showed a lack of interest and asked just for a regular incandescent bulb, the employee actually started arguing with him about it. The last thing I heard her say was "so you're seriously going to get that bulb which is going to cost you $5 a year to operate vs. this LED that will cost you $1.50 a year to operate???? That's just stupid!!!". At that point the guy just turned around and left.

 

Anyways, the whole fanboy/LED superiority complex thing totally reminded me of that.

 

Also, when I asked her if they had any small light fixtures I could put a gu10/mr16 LED in for a refugium, she took me over and spent 5 minutes trying to talk me into buying one of those bathroom light fixtures that you have to mount to the wall and hard wire.

 

That lady was freaking nuts.

[evilc66]

Awesome! My first post! I've been reading as much as i can process about LEDs in general and the par3x's in particular. A quick question to evil, is it safe to assume the par30's and par38's out there that are driven to lower wattages would produce lower PAR readings proportionally to said wattages? Also, what voltage are your units operating at? About 20V? Thanks

Depends. If it's the same LEDs, and the same quantity of LEDs, but driven at different currents, then the higher the current, the higher the PAR. Now, more LEDs at a lower current can produce similar PAR levels to fewer LEDs at a higher current. It's not a linear ratio though, so it makes it hard to predict the output based soley on wattage.

 

Not sure why you need to know about the voltage. LEDs are current driven, not voltage driven. The driver will adjust the voltage output to match the needs of the LEDs.

 

Funny that I come home and see this thread.

 

I was at Lowes today and overheard a guy asking one of their lighting department employees for help finding a replacement bulb for his bathroom light fixture. So first she took him over to the LED bulbs and gave a pitch as to why they were superior to every other bulb there. When he showed a lack of interest and asked just for a regular incandescent bulb, the employee actually started arguing with him about it. The last thing I heard her say was "so you're seriously going to get that bulb which is going to cost you $5 a year to operate vs. this LED that will cost you $1.50 a year to operate???? That's just stupid!!!". At that point the guy just turned around and left.

 

Anyways, the whole fanboy/LED superiority complex thing totally reminded me of that.

 

Also, when I asked her if they had any small light fixtures I could put a gu10/mr16 LED in for a refugium, she took me over and spent 5 minutes trying to talk me into buying one of those bathroom light fixtures that you have to mount to the wall and hard wire.

 

That lady was freaking nuts.

[Prodigal1011]

Evil,

 

Thank you for you LED knowledge. I’m planning on going topless with my Aquapod 12 and have a few questions. I’ve seen a few people using the PAR38 bulbs and desk lamp fixtures for the sockets. I’m wanting to do something a little better looking, that will reduce the amount of spillage into the room.

 

I’ve got a few extra deep dome fixtures by zoo med laying around from my reptile “escapades”. They are polished aluminum inside, with ceramic sockets, and allow a lot of air space between the bulb and the outside of the lamp itself. Questions:

 

Will the PAR38 get to hot in this type of fixture?

Are they equipped with a thermal cutoff if this does happen?

 

I usually use a 160W mercury vapor bulb in these and they get pretty toasty, but the fixture definitely helps dissipate the heat from the bulb much better than your “Home Desperate Special” clamp on light. Let me know what you think.

 

[evilc66]

You really need to use fixtures that are vented. Even with a lot of interior volume, there will be a saturation point where the lamp will heat up to the point where they can start to shorten the life of the LEDs. This is the same with all of these lamps, no matter the brand, or who you talk to. None of them that I'm aware of has any kind of thermal cutoff, at least in the areas that are important. Many driver chips have built in thermal protection, but that doesn't save the LED.

[Isodore]

This is what I'm using for a par38 bulb, you may have to use a zip tie to keep it from drooping too much but the shade is removeable and it seems to work pretty good.

 

http://www.officemax.com/office-furniture/...uct-prod3300061

[Prodigal1011]

Not what I wanted to hear, but I was pretty sure that was going to be the answer. I will look into some other fixtures or possibly modifying this to except a Smartech 90mm exhaust fan. Well see when I get the bulb and what temps it operates at. I'll post a build thread if it gets that far.

 

Also planning to add some lunar LED's for night time viewing. I saw your mod to the 12" current usa hood with the adjustable driver. Do you have a link on where I could find the driver online? Thanks for your help. I'll quit bugging you after this!

 

 

Isodore,

 

Thats better than most I've seen. I like the gloss finish and the price point. I was planning on a hanging fixture, but that one is growing on me. Thanks for the input.

[evilc66]

The driver was just a common Buckpuck. You really don't need something like that for moonlights. Just stick with cheap, simple 5mm LEDs for that purpose.

[joshik]

For a long time, low, medium and high light has been relegated to bottom, middle, and top of the tank respectively. All you have to do now is change that to center, near center, and far center of the lamp. You can still obtain the different light levels for different corals, but in a different way.

 

 

This is exactly what I do with my par38! my nuc greens and purple deaths sit along the walls of my 12g nano! good stuff!

[tinctorus]

Evil,

 

Thank you for you LED knowledge. I’m planning on going topless with my Aquapod 12 and have a few questions. I’ve seen a few people using the PAR38 bulbs and desk lamp fixtures for the sockets. I’m wanting to do something a little better looking, that will reduce the amount of spillage into the room.

 

I’ve got a few extra deep dome fixtures by zoo med laying around from my reptile “escapades”. They are polished aluminum inside, with ceramic sockets, and allow a lot of air space between the bulb and the outside of the lamp itself. Questions:

 

Will the PAR38 get to hot in this type of fixture?

Are they equipped with a thermal cutoff if this does happen?

 

I usually use a 160W mercury vapor bulb in these and they get pretty toasty, but the fixture definitely helps dissipate the heat from the bulb much better than your “Home Desperate Special” clamp on light. Let me know what you think.

 

 

If you wanted to use that fixture you could get out the drill and jig saw and cut the top portion off but leave 3 or 4 SLIM connection points to the lower reflector, this way you arent stopping any heat dissipation and you MAY stop some of the light spilllover

 

Just a thought I had so of course it may or may not work at all

[Spencer7]

i have three Ecoxotic Par 38 7 LED Lamps, and im about to get a fourth, can you give me any reasons on why I should get yours instead?

 

plz PM

[giojo]

Hi, i have bought a par 38 a while ago. I live in Italy, and I'm sorry to let you know that it doesn't work bere with a 50 hz at 220 volt current.. i have to use a transformer to change it to 60 hz otherwise my security lifesaving switch would just cut out my place. How is that? Sorry for my bad English.

[rgoodwill]

I like the post but there is a little too much emotion behind for my liking.

[Small Frag]

Couple of questions for you Evil. I'd like to do a 40 B as well. Although I was thinking of using rapid led par 38 12 led mixed colour bulbs. I'd like to have a sps dom tank with maybe clams.

 

1) how many should I use? . Maybe 4, like one in each "corner"? Or maybe a line down the center? Would it really matter with the light spread?

 

2) does it matter the lense degrees when I'll be keeping the bulbs a little lower maybe 12" off the top of the tank?

 

3) can I use a dimmer and or a reef controller to simulate dawn/ dusk and lightning patters or would that distroy the bulbs?

 

 

Thanks for any help

Gary

[Cullent17]

The link in Evil's original post about light spread of these lights is no longer working. I was wondering if someone could direct me to this information

[JBM]

Amen Evilc66!

 

Even all the way out here in the nyc area mis-information is being spread. I've been directing people to you over the years for guidance. Some have drank the cool-aide, others have not. Personally, I now have 1 of your beauties over my nc24. Love it

[Weetabix7]

On 4/15/2010 at 9:22 PM, evilc66 said:

Over the past few weeks, I have seen an increasing number of people spreading misinformation about my PAR38 lamps, and this has to stop.

 

First, to those that are supporting my products, take note. To those that have purchaced them and are happy with them, I'm glad you are enjoying them. To those that do not own them, please, make sure the information you are spreading to others is 100% correct. 99% of the misinformation is being spread by these people. If you aren't 100% sure of what you are telling others, either read up some more, or ask me. I'm here all the time. If you aren't sure of the answer, don't go blasting people that contradict you. There is no need for the p!ssing matches that have been going on recently in some of the more recent threads. If you aren't directly familiar with the product, you are going to lose the fight. Also, stop parading around saying that this lamp is the best thing since sliced bread. It's not the messiah, or the holy grail of lighting. It's just another option in a growing field of lighting. It has it's uses. It has it's limitations. Pay attention to them.

 

We also have a pretty heavy case of "fanboy-ism" for LEDs going on around here, and I will admit, that it has been partly due to me. The information that I have volunteered over the last few years was intended to educate, not create a cult like following. If you are pro LED, great. Enjoy the technology. Discuss the technology. There is no need to bash anyone that thinks different though. This is another thing that has been going on far too much lately.

 

On to the facts:

 

The basics about the lamp:

 

21W power draw - This is including the losses in the driver and the power supply. It does not mean that the LEDs are running at 5.2W each. This is just silly.

 

Each LED is running at 950mA - This works out to 3.5W per LED. No, I'm not overdriving the whites. Yes, I am slightly overdriving the blue. Can they take it? Yes, provided that the temperature of the LED is under control, which it is. Even at the elevated currents, we keep our die temperatures much lower than the Cree spec, ensuring long life.

 

Cree XR-E LEDs - They're good. They work. They won't be changing any time soon. I've had numerous people ask me about why I'm not using XP-Gs. There aren't lens options for them just yet to justify the change. Well, unless you want 40 degrees or tighter.

 

Worldwide usage - These can be used anywhere in the world where you can find an E26/27 medium base lamp socket. They can operate on 90-240v AC at 50Hz or 60Hz.

 

LED replacement - Can you replace an LED if it's damaged or you want something different? Sure, but it's a lot more complicated than just swapping out a star pcb. All the LEDs are on a single large pcb, and you would have to use reflow soldering techniques to replace the LEDs. If you are going to do it, go for it. It will void any warranty though.

 

Lens replacement - Can you replace the lenses with something different? Sure. They are standard Cree lenses that everyone is familiar with, just without the individual lens holders. We offer them in 40, 60, and 80 degree angles, but there are 25 and 8 degree options on the market too. Do so at your own risk though. If you break off the dome on the LED when replacing the lenses, by-by warranty.

 

Operating characteristics:

 

This is where the majority of the heated debate comes from.

 

First, many of us have differing opinions about what usefull PAR actually is in terms of spectral output when it comes to LEDs. This is going to be a growth area for the technology as we learn more about them. All we can do right now is use the tools and the knowledge that we have right now to make educated guesses about the overall usefulness. We aren't going to be arguing about how to correctly measure PAR here. The test numbers are just to be used for reference, not taken as gospel.

 

Peak PAR on these lamps is high (at least what we know as PAR, and according to the tools we have). Remember, this is the highest measureable PAR values. This is in a very small area. PAR values drop considerably the further off center you get. This is the nature of a spotlight. Typical metal halide setups are flood lights. They create a very large, even are of illumination. Some people are claiming that these lamps can replace 150W/250W/400W MH setups easily. It's not that simple. A 150W MH with a decent reflector can cover a much larger total area than a PAR38 (24"x24 on average, versus about a 14" practical circle with the PAR38s). The PAR38 in the right configuration can achieve much high peak PAR numbers, but the average PAR over the entire coverage area is much lower. To get similar average PAR levels over the same area, many more lamps would have to be used to match a 150W MH. As a result, the power consumption starts getting closer to what a MH would be.

 

A single PAR38 cannot and will not be a 1:1 replacement for a 150W MH. I'm sure some of you are now thinking that I must have been leading people down the wrong path suggesting that a single PAR38 can light the likes of a BC14. It can do just that, but you have to understand the limitation that you are working with. Using these lamps is a very different way of thinking about lighting a tank. The coverage area of these lamps is rather small in comparison to other lighting technologies, but you can use that to your advantage. For a long time, low, medium and high light has been relegated to bottom, middle, and top of the tank respectively. All you have to do now is change that to center, near center, and far center of the lamp. You can still obtain the different light levels for different corals, but in a different way. Some have claimed that I have told them that you can replace large metal halide setups with these lamps. I have never said that. I have stated that you can create PAR levels similar to metal halide, but have always qualified the statement by saying that you will need to use multiple lamps to get good coverage and still achieve that level of intensity.

 

Please refer to the PAR plots that I have posted for the different lens angles at different distances. This will give you a better understanding as to what to expect from the lamp.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=221433

 

Coral coloration - This is something that is going to be a talking point for a long time to come. This is an issue more to do with LEDs as a whole and not just the PAR38 lamps. What I will say is that there is a lot more to color coloration that just light. Water parameters, flow, feeding, and proper acclimation are all important to keeping corals vibrant and colorful. I won't argue that there is something missing that is causing some of the corals to lose their vibrance. Unfortunately, it's going to take a while to find out what that is.

 

Added 11/23/10- I wanted to add another section about light control and spillage. I'm getting a lot of questions about what lenses should be used to reduce the amount of light spill when used over a tank. This is not a good approach to start with. Because these lamps are not currently dimmable, you need to use height to set the appropriate intensity. As a result, you will/may end up with some light spill regardless of the optics used. Trying to control spill with different lens angles will only lead to situations where your PAR levels are too high for the livestock you are illuminating. If spill is still a concern, then there are other mechanical methods that can be used to help situations without changing intensity like you would by changing lenses. One option is to use clip on barn-doors (similar to what is used on stage lighting) to limit where the light goes. W.A.C. Lighting makes accessories like this that you should be able to clip onto the front of the lamp. At that point, you can adjust to your hearts content. Please, set the lamp(s) up with the lens, distance, and height required to get the job done properly so your livestock is comfortable first, and then control spill with mechanical methods.

 

Hopefully this clears up many of the falicies that I have been seeing around the forums recently. If there are any other point you would like me to address, please tell me. I will update this post with any new information I can provide.

 

Last thing I want to point out is that this thread is not going to turn into an arguement session. That can be done elsewhere. This thread is strictly to point out the facts about the mechanical parts, and the operating characteristics of the lamp, so everyone can talk from the same reference. There is nothing to argue about here. I made it, I tested it. It is what it is.

 

Mods, if you feel that this is too much like a sales pitch, please feel free to move it to the Nanocustoms forum. This needed to be said though.

 

Keep it civil.

 

This was really, really good and helpful, and worth a "bump". 

[evilc66]

Wow Weetie. Way to drag this one up from the depths

[Weetabix7]

22 minutes ago, evilc66 said:

Wow Weetie. Way to drag this one up from the depths

 

Yeah well..... it was helpful. 

 

Feel free to summarize any additional knowledge you've gained on the topic since you posted this. 

I've got some knowledge to catch up on, lol.