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Apex Base Controller Package "Group Buy"

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flinster
Is it possible the Neptune put a stop to this?

I guess I should have trusted my gut. Please refund my payment ASAP. I have already filed a PP dispute.....

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jackaninny
Repeated emails and PMs to cmagallon have been ignored so I'm am forced to post to this thread. This group buy has not been approved by Neptune Systems, and it violates MAP. This equipment will NOT be sold to the cmagallon or any other reseller to fill the orders in this group buy. I recommend that you do not payment and cancel your orders. You will not be receiving controllers through this group buy.

 

Curt

President

Neptune Systems

 

Curt-

 

What exactly is MAP pricing then because although this price is low I have seen many GB with pricing nearly as low. Not speaking for anyone but myself but if this whole thing falls apart over $10-20 (compared to what I've seen in other GB) I will be very disappointed. I will add that it would have been nice to hear about this directly much, much earlier in the process directly from Neptune.

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FreakinReefin
Curt-

 

What exactly is MAP pricing then because although this price is low I have seen many GB with pricing nearly as low. Not speaking for anyone but myself but if this whole thing falls apart over $10-20 (compared to what I've seen in other GB) I will be very disappointed. I will add that it would have been nice to hear about this directly much, much earlier in the process directly from Neptune.

 

I completely agree. I understand your frustration and issues thus forth Curt, however a little more heads-up would have been appreciated. No angst to you or neptune since, clearly, I am in this in anticipation of buying a great product of yours. All I have to say is that I am VERY PISSED OFF at Aquarium works and Cmagallon for this desception. Please refund my money ASAP and this will not be pursued any further.

Edited by FreakinReefin

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clp

MAP is minimum advertised price. If the advertised price is more than 1% below suggested list, the company is violating our terms, and we will not sell product to them. I first heard about the group buy on Thursday of last week. I PMed and emailed cmagallon on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and told him that this was in violation of our terms. He didn't respond.

I was out of town on Sunday, Monday, and just returned late this afternoon. I saw the group buy was still going on, so I took action. I'm sorry that I didn't know about this sooner and could have stopped the GB before it got so far along.

 

Curt

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flinster
MAP is minimum advertised price. If the advertised price is more than 1% below suggested list, the company is violating our terms, and we will not sell product to them. I first heard about the group buy on Thursday of last week. I PMed and emailed cmagallon on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and told him that this was in violation of our terms. He didn't respond.

I was out of town on Sunday, Monday, and just returned late this afternoon. I saw the group buy was still going on, so I took action. I'm sorry that I didn't know about this sooner and could have stopped the GB before it got so far along.

 

Curt

When you have over $10k in potential customers, why would you not reply in the thread? That means one of two things would happen:

A: people get a great price on your product

B: people get screwed thinking they're getting a good deal on your product.

 

It's seems "going out of town" is a common excuse in this thread....

If it were me, I would have stopped this immediately.

Now many of your customers are at financial exposure because you failed to act.....

 

 

MAP is minimum advertised price. If the advertised price is more than 1% below suggested list, the company is violating our terms, and we will not sell product to them. I first heard about the group buy on Thursday of last week. I PMed and emailed cmagallon on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and told him that this was in violation of our terms. He didn't respond.

I was out of town on Sunday, Monday, and just returned late this afternoon. I saw the group buy was still going on, so I took action. I'm sorry that I didn't know about this sooner and could have stopped the GB before it got so far along.

 

Curt

And the buy was supposed to close well before you left town.....

When you were out of town, did you not have computer access? My guess would be that this was pretty important to you and if you wanted to respond, you could have.....

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ming
When you have over $10k in potential customers, why would you not reply in the thread? That means one of two things would happen:

A: people get a great price on your product

B: people get screwed thinking they're getting a good deal on your product.

 

It's seems "going out of town" is a common excuse in this thread....

If it were me, I would have stopped this immediately.

Now many of your customers are at financial exposure because you failed to act.....

I totally agree on this. Whether or not you could contact cmagallon, the outcome seems like the groupbuy should have been closed as soon as you found out about it, so notifying everybody ASAP would seem the logical thing to do, especially since the payment date was coming while you're out of town. Why the delay, I don't understand. Now I'm sure most of us will have to file a dispute to get a refund.

Edited by ming

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acesq
Repeated emails and PMs to cmagallon have been ignored so I'm am forced to post to this thread. This group buy has not been approved by Neptune Systems, and it violates MAP. This equipment will NOT be sold to the cmagallon or any other reseller to fill the orders in this group buy. I recommend that you do not payment and cancel your orders. You will not be receiving controllers through this group buy.

 

Curt

President

Neptune Systems

 

I am concerned by Neptune System's aggressive response to this group buy. Seems counter productive. I for one was considering both the Apex and the Profilux. Close in price and function. What put me over the hump to the Apex was this group buy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's decision was influenced heavily by the group buy.

Second, I would like an explanation how a group buy, put together by an individual with, presumably, no agreement with Neptune Systems to adhere to Minimum Advertised Pricing, could violate any agreement. cmagallon is the one who advertised, not the unnamed sponsor -- simply agreed to sell at the discounted price, no advertising. All cmagallon was doing was trying to pass on a good deal that he was able to negotiate for the benefit of fellow reefers. Thanks again, cmagallan, by the way.

Third, doesn't Neptune Systems make the same amount per unit regardless whether the sponsor agrees to reduce his profit? If so, what's the problem? More users, more accessory sales, less people buying other products.

Finally, a large number of us have already paid (based on the posts). What sort of problems will this demand from Neptune Systems create?

I hope that Neptune Systems reconsiders and does not try to stand in the way of this group buy. Its a lose-lose proposition.

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96gts

So now what do we do now for those of us that have paid? I would have thought the vendor had already give a headup to Neptune, or at least check and make sure parts are available. Just very disappointed as I'm looking forward in upgrading my RK2 to Apex. I guess I'll have to think about upgrading to the RK Elite.

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Adam

now, whats up with cmagallon? He started Maxspect LED light group buy as well.. and now it is silent there as well.. I tried to get in group buy of those LED lights.. but after reading here and there.. I am not sure anymore if I want send my hard earn money to someone who doesnt respond/give a sh*** anymore about these group buys.. Cmagallon, so WHATS GOING ON? Any explanation to us?

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flinster

I know little on the situation, but how many people here know Conrad personally? His site, sfvr.org has little enough traffic to make me concerned. It seems like he's a well respected member here based on posts. I hope someone can confirm that....

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jackaninny
MAP is minimum advertised price. If the advertised price is more than 1% below suggested list, the company is violating our terms, and we will not sell product to them. I first heard about the group buy on Thursday of last week. I PMed and emailed cmagallon on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and told him that this was in violation of our terms. He didn't respond.

I was out of town on Sunday, Monday, and just returned late this afternoon. I saw the group buy was still going on, so I took action. I'm sorry that I didn't know about this sooner and could have stopped the GB before it got so far along.

 

Curt

 

I understand what MAP is and what the theory behind it is and frankly never bought into said theory. Used to work great with low information consumers but these days it seems like they are better ways to position yourself in the marketplace and build brand. Certainly things must be going well in this economy for Neptune if they can turn away over $10K in sales.

 

So if a dealer advertises and sells for less than $494 they're toast? I'm still curious how previous GBs went down with prices well below the MAP. Even more curious when I inquired directly with Neptune about a direct GB I was directed to a couple of online dealers that would sponsor such purchases by a Netune employee. I contacted one dealer and had an offer that was much lowered than MAP although not as low as this particular GB price. So I'm confused - maybe Neptune has certain "favored" dealers they let take care of such group purchases and look the other way?

 

I'd be interested to know how many people will re-evaluate their controller purchase altogether because of the MAP pricing enforcement. Prior to this GB I was going back and forth between the DA and Neptune units (Lite versions) and then saw many previous GB deals and the pricing made me think about stretching for the full unit. If this deal is truly dead I think I'll go back and do a little more research on the best brand and model that fits my needs.

Edited by jackaninny

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RRaider
I totally agree on this. Whether or not you could contact cmagallon, the outcome seems like the groupbuy should have been closed as soon as you found out about it, so notifying everybody ASAP would seem the logical thing to do, especially since the payment date was coming while you're out of town. Why the delay, I don't understand. Now I'm sure most of us will have to file a dispute to get a refund.

 

I used a credit card just in case something like this came up. Once I get my refund i'll be spending my money on a Profilux or Digital Aquatics RKE.

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flinster
I used a credit card just in case something like this came up. Once I get my refund i'll be spending my money on a Profilux or Digital Aquatics RKE.

A reef club in my area had a GB for $420 w/ less than half of the participation....

Edited by flinster

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earliris

Would MAP be similar to a MSRP (Manufactures suggested retail price) if so i would have to comment as i was a tv salesman a few years ago. A manufactures advertised price was always discounted no matter how good of a deal it is at the suggested price. People are and will always be looking for a deal. It's human nature! Now that the group buy has been advertised and shows a lot of interest don't you think it would be wise to allow everyone to purchase the system who have made it to the cut off date. Knowing that these customers are bloggers and will speak highly of the system which will in turn bring more customers and more sales. If a customer has a bad experience when purchasing a product they will ultimately notify at least 10 people of their bad experience which will multiply on and on. Having this rather aggressive message come directly from Neptune Systems President rather than a solution to this issue reflects the companies care towards its customers. Hence the term "Customer Satisfaction"

Edited by earliris

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clp

No, the vendor did not give me a heads up; I found out about the group buy from an email. I gave time to cmagallon to straighten his mess out; he chose to do nothing. If cmagallon chooses not to refund the money, paypal and credit cards give the customer the benefit and all should easily be able to get their money back. I am sorry for the inconvenience that will create for those that have paid.

It would have been a nice sale, however, selling at such huge discounts completely undermines our sales distribution network. If group buys happen we will not have any store/reseller which will handle our products. This is bad for us as we will not be in business and it is not good for you either as we will not have the sales for continued product support and development.

And yes, I truly was out of town with my son on a school field trip/camping experience to Gold Bug Mine in Coloma, CA. We were in the sticks and there was no internet or even cell phone service.

 

Curt

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jackaninny
A reef club in my area had a GB for $420 w/ less than half of the participation....

 

It's just one of many in that same price range that have recently completed or are going on with a lower profile to avoid becoming the next buzz kill.

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RRaider
A reef club in my area had a GB for $420 w/ less than half of the participation....

 

I know of at least one other GB but it was for the Apex Lite. They went pretty cheap as well. I waited because I wanted the regular Apex. Curt's attitude and lack of immediate response have soured me on Neptune so I'll take my business elsewhere.

Edited by RRaider

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acesq
No, the vendor did not give me a heads up; I found out about the group buy from an email. I gave time to cmagallon to straighten his mess out; he chose to do nothing. If cmagallon chooses not to refund the money, paypal and credit cards give the customer the benefit and all should easily be able to get their money back. I am sorry for the inconvenience that will create for those that have paid.

It would have been a nice sale, however, selling at such huge discounts completely undermines our sales distribution network. If group buys happen we will not have any store/reseller which will handle our products. This is bad for us as we will not be in business and it is not good for you either as we will not have the sales for continued product support and development.

And yes, I truly was out of town with my son on a school field trip/camping experience to Gold Bug Mine in Coloma, CA. We were in the sticks and there was no internet or even cell phone service.

 

Curt

 

Curt, think about it, the majority of these are found sales, impulse buys, that would not have happened but for the GB. Your other distributors have lost nothing. Neptune Systems gets all of the sales and all of the new customers.

 

You might also consider that cmagallon was also out of town all weekend on a camping trip. I doubt he had internet or cell service either.

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earliris
I know of at least one other GB but it was for the Apex Lite. They went pretty cheap as well. I waited because I wanted the regular Apex. Curt's attitude and lack of immediate response have soured me on Neptune so I'll take my business elsewhere.

 

 

I'll second that!

 

in the words of Al Pacino

 

"Vanity is my favourite sin."

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RRaider
No, the vendor did not give me a heads up; I found out about the group buy from an email. I gave time to cmagallon to straighten his mess out; he chose to do nothing. If cmagallon chooses not to refund the money, paypal and credit cards give the customer the benefit and all should easily be able to get their money back. I am sorry for the inconvenience that will create for those that have paid.

It would have been a nice sale, however, selling at such huge discounts completely undermines our sales distribution network. If group buys happen we will not have any store/reseller which will handle our products. This is bad for us as we will not be in business and it is not good for you either as we will not have the sales for continued product support and development.

And yes, I truly was out of town with my son on a school field trip/camping experience to Gold Bug Mine in Coloma, CA. We were in the sticks and there was no internet or even cell phone service.

 

Curt

 

No, Paypal will NOT refund money if the seller pulls the money out of their paypal account unless it was an Ebay purchase. So, your decision to wait before informing us that this buy would not be allowed to happen could very well have cost several people quite a lot of money. Their only hope if they did not use a credit card is that the store will be honest and refund their money.

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flinster
Curt, think about it, the majority of these are found sales, impulse buys, that would not have happened but for the GB. Your other distributors have lost nothing. Neptune Systems gets all of the sales and all of the new customers.

 

You might also consider that cmagallon was also out of town all weekend on a camping trip. I doubt he had internet or cell service either.

I don't think Neptune or Curt are going to change their mind at this point. I suggest you give full effort towards demanding a refund.....

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acesq
I don't think Neptune or Curt are going to change their mind at this point. I suggest you give full effort towards demanding a refund.....

 

I'm not worried about a refund, I paid by credit card. I want Neptune Systems to do the right thing. Stepping in at the 11th hour under the circumstances is shortsighted. It helps no one and hurts all of the participants, Neptune Systems included.

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jackaninny
No, the vendor did not give me a heads up; I found out about the group buy from an email. I gave time to cmagallon to straighten his mess out; he chose to do nothing. If cmagallon chooses not to refund the money, paypal and credit cards give the customer the benefit and all should easily be able to get their money back. I am sorry for the inconvenience that will create for those that have paid.

It would have been a nice sale, however, selling at such huge discounts completely undermines our sales distribution network. If group buys happen we will not have any store/reseller which will handle our products. This is bad for us as we will not be in business and it is not good for you either as we will not have the sales for continued product support and development.

And yes, I truly was out of town with my son on a school field trip/camping experience to Gold Bug Mine in Coloma, CA. We were in the sticks and there was no internet or even cell phone service.

 

Curt

 

 

Curt-

 

Thanks for participating and at least offering some explanation. I'm still confused about Neptune's GB policy. As I previously posted I was directed by a Netune employee to a specific online dealer that had previously done GB for people willing to combine their purchasing power.

 

I also understand that you don't want to tick off dealers who want the fatter margins and seem too ignorant to understand that the REAL money with this product is in setup, customization, servicing and upselling features over a longer period than a few minutes at a counter. Or the big boys to whom service after the sale is a foreign concept. Still, it seems a pretty basic concept that if I have 5 or 11 other friends that we should be able to get a better deal than a person just making a single unit purchase.

 

I hope you understand that you can read past the inevitable anger and realize many people, such as myself, as just frustrated at length of time it took for someone to step in and the fact that it seems there is going to be no middle ground resolution.

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ming
No, the vendor did not give me a heads up; I found out about the group buy from an email. I gave time to cmagallon to straighten his mess out; he chose to do nothing. If cmagallon chooses not to refund the money, paypal and credit cards give the customer the benefit and all should easily be able to get their money back. I am sorry for the inconvenience that will create for those that have paid.

It would have been a nice sale, however, selling at such huge discounts completely undermines our sales distribution network. If group buys happen we will not have any store/reseller which will handle our products. This is bad for us as we will not be in business and it is not good for you either as we will not have the sales for continued product support and development.

And yes, I truly was out of town with my son on a school field trip/camping experience to Gold Bug Mine in Coloma, CA. We were in the sticks and there was no internet or even cell phone service.

 

Curt

There might have been some mis-communication between you and the vendor. I notified the vendor and they have replied saying they advised Neptune about this a month ago and is amazed this has happened. They will get in contact with you (Neptune) directly and we will either get product we purchased or a refund.

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foreverfortune
No, the vendor did not give me a heads up; I found out about the group buy from an email. I gave time to cmagallon to straighten his mess out; he chose to do nothing. If cmagallon chooses not to refund the money, paypal and credit cards give the customer the benefit and all should easily be able to get their money back. I am sorry for the inconvenience that will create for those that have paid.

It would have been a nice sale, however, selling at such huge discounts completely undermines our sales distribution network. If group buys happen we will not have any store/reseller which will handle our products. This is bad for us as we will not be in business and it is not good for you either as we will not have the sales for continued product support and development.

And yes, I truly was out of town with my son on a school field trip/camping experience to Gold Bug Mine in Coloma, CA. We were in the sticks and there was no internet or even cell phone service.

 

Curt

 

wow that has left a very bitter taste in my mouth about neptune. this would have been my very first reef controller and i chose to go with neptune because of this group buy. the least you(neptune systems) could have done was give a warning that this kind of thing would not be supported for future group buys and still let this one go forward as words would spread like wildfire in public forums and you would have gotten your point accross whenever anyone attempts to do this again.

but to completely cut it off leaving many paid customers stranded trying to get their money back would also spread like wildfire but not in a good way for neptune systems and their customer service reputation.

 

 

so now i gotta try to put in a dispute to get my refund thanks neptune for the pleasent experience with your product.

Edited by foreverfortune

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