jackaninny Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Koralia 3 from Marine Depot = $55 x 2 = $110 RKL = $99 Total $219 If you use Koralia's controller the minimum buy in is $240 for the controller ($350 total) and you can only control 2 units period. MP10 es = $220 Reviews have shown the MP10 pushes more flow than Vortech advertises (closer to 1800gph) - MP10 Review so the dual Koralia 3 comparison is a good apples to apples comparison. Power consumption is roughly the same between the 2 setups at ~20W. The Ecotech puts the heat outside the tank and you end up with less equipment inside the tank. The Ecotech has a dedicated battery backup option although I'd lean towards putting my whole system on a UPS but at least you have this option and it does provide a smaller equipment footprint and a pretty significant runtime over a whole system battery backup. I can't speak to the ease of setup and wave tuning on either one but from the videos the Ecotech looks pretty easy. I can't imagine the RKL integration is as easy or as flexible. I guess my whole point here is using words like "out of whack" and "exorbitant" to describe pricing do not make any sense to me when comparing the Ecotech models with the other similar options available. Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 16, 2010 Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 Koralia 3 from Marine Depot = $55 x 2 = $110RKL = $99 Total $219 If you use Koralia's controller the minimum buy in is $240 for the controller ($350 total) and you can only control 2 units period. MP10 es = $220 Reviews have shown the MP10 pushes more flow than Vortech advertises (closer to 1800gph) - MP10 Review so the dual Koralia 3 comparison is a good apples to apples comparison. Power consumption is roughly the same between the 2 setups at ~20W. The Ecotech puts the heat outside the tank and you end up with less equipment inside the tank. The Ecotech has a dedicated battery backup option although I'd lean towards putting my whole system on a UPS but at least you have this option and it does provide a smaller equipment footprint and a pretty significant runtime over a whole system battery backup. I can't speak to the ease of setup and wave tuning on either one but from the videos the Ecotech looks pretty easy. I can't imagine the RKL integration is as easy or as flexible. I guess my whole point here is using words like "out of whack" and "exorbitant" to describe pricing do not make any sense to me when comparing the Ecotech models with the other similar options available. besides the fact that your math is wrong, i gave you the best price i could find doing a quick search (from petmountain). if you want to go to MD and pay $10 more per unit, that's fine. i guess i just wouldn't recommend finding pricing to support your position as a good way to make your point. your second paragraph is a much better argument, but we've pretty much already covered it. you also don't bother to mention any of the advantages of the competing alternative. that's cool, too, though, because you've already decided what you are going to do. so, knock yourself out and buy the more expensive model. if i were going to do it again, i would prefer buying the original mp10 from tbaquatics for the lower price. edit: also, i don't recall saying "out of whack" or "exorbitant." i just said it wasn't a good value. and, that's just for new purchasers. for people who would be upgrading from an existing mp10 to an mp10es, there is very, very little value for your $55. there is more value in getting to the mp10es wireless, but i still think it's overpriced. these have been my arguments from the beginning. also, incidentally, just to expound on your incorrectly calculated comparison, you forgot that you actually should be comparing the price of the mp10es wireless, because the RKL gives you the function that you'd get from the wireless pumps (i.e. that they can communicate to function/synch together). so, the number comparison should be "$45+$45+$99 = $189, vs. whatever the price of the mp10es wireless is ($265 retail?)." Link to comment
Rockfish Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 mine will be here tomorrow for my soon to be MP40 ES!!! pics to come!! Link to comment
NeveSSL Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 EcoTech is putting out a new "EcoSmart driver" for the mp10 and mp40. product details here. seems pretty neat. no idea what kind of cost we'd be talking about to upgrade. but, the upgrades seem possibly worthwhile. i'm especially interested in seeing the tidal surge mode, nutrient transport mode. and, the auto-dim LEDs would be huge for those who have a bedroom aquarium. no pricing yet, but they say they'll be shipping out at the end of the month. who's getting one? Me. I'm glad I waited to purchase my MP10. Does anyone have proof that you have to have 3 pumps to use some of the new functions? I didn't get that impression, but maybe I missed something. Probably the biggest downside for those who currently own is that it will drive the value of their units down if they're non-ES. That's a good thing if you don't want the ES features and would like to pick up an MP10 for cheaper, though. Brandon Link to comment
fiction101 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Me. I'm glad I waited to purchase my MP10. Does anyone have proof that you have to have 3 pumps to use some of the new functions? I didn't get that impression, but maybe I missed something. Probably the biggest downside for those who currently own is that it will drive the value of their units down if they're non-ES. That's a good thing if you don't want the ES features and would like to pick up an MP10 for cheaper, though. Brandon You'll need at least two pumps to get the full benefits of the new modes. I'd rather pay $175 at marinedepot for the regular mp10 model. Since the only things I used on my mp20 was reefcrest and short pulse modes. Koralia 3 from Marine Depot = $55 x 2 = $110RKL = $99 Total $219 If you use Koralia's controller the minimum buy in is $240 for the controller ($350 total) and you can only control 2 units period. MP10 es = $220 Who the hell wants two koralia 3's in their tank? im a little offended by EchoTechs pricing myself. After getting my mp10. I realized i should have just got a K2. the mp10 is strong yes. But it just shoots a straight blast of current on the other side of my tank. And it goes really fast if i want it too. Great....whoopy...... Link to comment
jackaninny Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 edit: also, i don't recall saying "out of whack" or "exorbitant." ...and, it's frustrating to see their upgrade pricing being so out-of-whack for the ES model, when the value you actually get from the upgrade is so limited. Link to comment
bayreefer Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I dont understand why everyone is so quick to jump on timdanger,this is a forum that he started and he is stating his own personal opinions and backing the product he owns just like everyone else does on every other product and forum they own,I myself own 2x mp10 and before I purchased them I researched for about a month on everything I was gonna buy for my setup obviously it looks like everyone that got upset owns the mp10 and are fans of Ecotech just like myself but to gang up on a guy and his personal opinion is rediculous.I dont go to peoples forum and bash them on the choices they make on equipment and tell them the equipment they got isnt better then mine because a lot of equipment is personal preference and all have the same purpose.,for example Zoanthids about 7 years ago you can but a live rock infested with 40-50 polyps for $40 no names,no bam bams no gods armor no purple people eaters they were just polyps now everyone gives them a special name and sell them for $5 a polyp, its all about popularity and right now ecotech is popular and one of a kind Im not saying they have no quality I love mine so dont compare me to a car or something rediculous like that Im just saying its his own personal opinion and he just like the rest of us are entitled to them. Link to comment
Crippler Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I may grab one down the road, but right now the MP10 in my 10g is fine the way it is. When I go a bit larger and if I can dig up the cash for a new MP10w model, then a driver update is in order for what I have now. The benefits of the new driver only really come into play when you have more than one pump to play with. IMO, save your $ for corals at this point if you only have one Vortech. Fight that urge to continually upgrade equipment that is functioning just fine as is. I try to everyday. Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 jackaninny, thanks for pointing that out. you're right, i guess i did say "out-of-whack." my mistake. i didn't say exorbitant, though, did i? i guess it was the juxtaposition of those terms that connoted something different. i guess those prices are "out of whack" from the perspective of "they are asking mp10 owners to pay $55 for very little, if any, substantive upgrade." it is not "out of whack" (at least not as badly) from the perspective of "exorbitant pricing as compared to competing products." Link to comment
basser1 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 LOL!! Well you know what happens when people "connote"? Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Me. I'm glad I waited to purchase my MP10. Does anyone have proof that you have to have 3 pumps to use some of the new functions? I didn't get that impression, but maybe I missed something. Probably the biggest downside for those who currently own is that it will drive the value of their units down if they're non-ES. That's a good thing if you don't want the ES features and would like to pick up an MP10 for cheaper, though. Brandon if you look on the product description page, here, you can see that the graphs that show the flow pattern for the tidal swell and nutrient export mode clearly indicate that 3 pumps need to be communicating wirelessly to use either of the new modes. while they do talk about "master"/"slave" in the description of the new modes, it seems to me like ecotech needs to be more upfront about the fact that regular "ES" models can't be used for this unless they are wireless (which is the only way i see that they could synch up). so, those of you thinking that you are paying $220/each for the new modes, i really think you oughta look into that more carefully. I dont understand why everyone is so quick to jump on timdanger,this is a forum that he started and he is stating his own personal opinions and backing the product he owns just like everyone else does on every other product and forum they own,I myself own 2x mp10 and before I purchased them I researched for about a month on everything I was gonna buy for my setup obviously it looks like everyone that got upset owns the mp10 and are fans of Ecotech just like myself but to gang up on a guy and his personal opinion is rediculous.I dont go to peoples forum and bash them on the choices they make on equipment and tell them the equipment they got isnt better then mine because a lot of equipment is personal preference and all have the same purpose.,for example Zoanthids about 7 years ago you can but a live rock infested with 40-50 polyps for $40 no names,no bam bams no gods armor no purple people eaters they were just polyps now everyone gives them a special name and sell them for $5 a polyp, its all about popularity and right now ecotech is popular and one of a kind Im not saying they have no quality I love mine so dont compare me to a car or something rediculous like that Im just saying its his own personal opinion and he just like the rest of us are entitled to them. thanks for the supportive words. it's surprising to me, as well! i mean, i even own an mp10 and like what it provides! still, some people just like to rip other people for not drinking the koolaid for trendy products, even if they don't even have that product in their tank. Link to comment
Perm Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I like the idea of having multiple smaller pumps(MP10W), than 1 or two larger pumps(MP40W). This functionality to me would be great in a larger tank, but for nanos that only need one it is ridiculous. Only 2 models should be offered, wireless and regular. The prices shouldnt be so disparaging, but they should do like they did with the MP40W's. I hope this makes sense, but I wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt. I like the idea of having a cube with 2 on the back and 1 on each side. I wonder if you can sync the back pumps to work in unison during the tidal or nutrient mode. Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 I like the idea of having multiple smaller pumps(MP10W), than 1 or two larger pumps(MP40W). This functionality to me would be great in a larger tank, but for nanos that only need one it is ridiculous. Only 2 models should be offered, wireless and regular. The prices shouldnt be so disparaging, but they should do like they did with the MP40W's. I hope this makes sense, but I wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt. I like the idea of having a cube with 2 on the back and 1 on each side. I wonder if you can sync the back pumps to work in unison during the tidal or nutrient mode. couldn't agree more with everything you said here. i don't understand what the point is of continuing to carry the outmoded driver at the same price point while increasing the price point for the current version of the driver. as far as your question about synching pumps to work together for tidal/nutrient mode, i would think you not only can but that you HAVE TO. this is why it seems to me that you have to have the mp10W (or mp40W) ES to use either of those modes. otherwise, how do they work together to simulate the modes that ecotech has developed? Link to comment
Perm Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Im glad that made sense. I was in the middle of a boring lecture and decided my attention was best utilized elsewhere. My plans were to use 2 MP40W's in a 50g artisan. One on each side of the overflow, so both would be on the back wall. They would both have to be set rather low to no cause total chaos in a tank that size. I like the idea of both being able to disperse flow evenly for an SPS only tank. These new MP10W's would make that so much better. Cheaper, smaller footprint, and lower power usage. With the new setting it seems like each pump would need a number designator. Pump 1 being the left, pump 2 being the right, and pump 3 being the back. If I could add another pump 4 to run in sync with pump 3 then I would have two pumps as the back pump, keeping that flow even. Hope that makes sense. It would add a little extra expense, but I dont think an additional pump would be too noticeable on the back wall. I would also like to see ecotech change the wetside of the MP10 to stop the whirlpool effect like the larger wetside of the 20's and 40's. Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Im glad that made sense. I was in the middle of a boring lecture and decided my attention was best utilized elsewhere. My plans were to use 2 MP40W's in a 50g artisan. One on each side of the overflow, so both would be on the back wall. They would both have to be set rather low to no cause total chaos in a tank that size. I like the idea of both being able to disperse flow evenly for an SPS only tank. These new MP10W's would make that so much better. Cheaper, smaller footprint, and lower power usage. With the new setting it seems like each pump would need a number designator. Pump 1 being the left, pump 2 being the right, and pump 3 being the back. If I could add another pump 4 to run in sync with pump 3 then I would have two pumps as the back pump, keeping that flow even. Hope that makes sense. It would add a little extra expense, but I dont think an additional pump would be too noticeable on the back wall. I would also like to see ecotech change the wetside of the MP10 to stop the whirlpool effect like the larger wetside of the 20's and 40's. i don't know enough about them to know if this would work. what about all 3 on the back wall? i agree about the vortexing you get with the mp10. i've been able to totally stop it by (on the suggestion of someone on nano-reef) moving mine closer to a corner of my tank. Uhuru actually modded his mp10 by adding beads of silicone to create his own vortex-blocking "plate" on his mp10 wetside. that seems like a good alternative if you can't get the mp10s to a corner. Link to comment
Perm Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 From what I have read and by looking at the graph, it seems like you need atleast 3 pumps running together in either the tidal or nutrient mode, and the placement of these pumps are important too. I may just go back to the idea of having the 2 MP40W's just so I dont have to have the MP10W's at full tilt boogie. I probably would care much for the effect anyway. I am a wave whore. Having a visible wave at all daylight hours in my next tank is probably going to be a non negotiable. Link to comment
Perm Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Poor MP20. Hahaha, yeah no one cares about that red headed step child. Link to comment
Rockfish Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 just got my ES driver!!! This thing is SICKKK!!! Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 just got my ES driver!!! This thing is SICKKK!!! what makes it sick? Link to comment
Nemo Niblets Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 what makes it sick? The flashy lights! Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 The flashy lights! and the on/off switch?! Link to comment
Nemo Niblets Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 and the on/off switch?! I seriously do wish that my MP10 has an on and off switch. Link to comment
timdanger Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 I seriously do wish that my MP10 has an on and off switch. me too. but, for only $55, you can have an on/off switch... AND flashy lights!! Link to comment
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