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New vortech mp10 and mp40 EcoSmart driver


timdanger

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$55 for adding things that should've been included in the first place? i'm underwhelmed.

 

Right. We get it. You're not going to buy or recommend one. I'm sure Vortech is all broken up about it.

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Right. We get it. You're not going to buy or recommend one. I'm sure Vortech is all broken up about it.

 

no need to act jerky about it -- i'm posting my opinion on a message board topic that i started, which is that there is very underhwelming reason to fork over an extra $55 to add relatively non-substantive functionality for those that would be thinking of upgrading. then, it was stated "well look at all these great reasons to give them $55 extra!!" -- so, i responded that i didn't think that was worth $55. if you're upset about people expressing opinions, though, maybe the internet is not for you?

 

but, to your point about ecotech marine being concerned over how their new product is received by the community (of which I am a member), i actually do think that it's maybe something they should be broken up about. their pricing is already somewhat non-competitive. their pumps are much louder than their competition (tunzes on a controller, hydor koralia evolutions on an RKL/etc.). and, they just took the time to come up with these new operation modes that require 3 mp10s to use. do you know anyone who is using 3 mp10s? and, are the new modes that 3 mp10s provides worth $660 to anyone? i feel like this is all a pretty relevant critique.

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im a little offended by EchoTechs pricing myself. After getting my mp10. I realized i should have just got a K2. the mp10 is strong yes. But it just shoots a straight blast of current on the other side of my tank. And it goes really fast if i want it too. Great....whoopy......

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55 bucks is hardly a big expense in this hobby, come on.

 

 

I agree completely, if you were willing to dish out $195+ on a pump you can afford $55-$85 on an optional upgrade. Also at the time you didn't care that this wasn't an option but now that it is you are pissed? This is like buying a 2003 350z and then in 2008 when they upgraded the motor, going to Nissan and being pissed they didn't originally throw in the better motor or they wont sell it to you for cheap since you have a 350z.

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I agree completely, if you were willing to dish out $195+ on a pump you can afford $55-$85 on an optional upgrade. Also at the time you didn't care that this wasn't an option but now that it is you are pissed? This is like buying a 2003 350z and then in 2008 when they upgraded the motor, going to Nissan and being pissed they didn't originally throw in the better motor or they wont sell it to you for cheap since you have a 350z.

 

 

Your analogy is no where close to the same thing.

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Your analogy is no where close to the same thing.

 

 

OK, so an engine is worth 15% of the car and the EcoSmart driver is 30% of the pump... either way you bought the mp10 or ect. before the EcoSmart driver came out and you always have to pay more for add-ons unless it's included in the package. Like DSLR Cameras, sometimes they come with an extra lens as part of a promotion. All you can say is that you should have waited, and why fuss over something so simple. Either spend the cash or don't, just don't complain about it unless you are forced to buy it.

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OK, so an engine is worth 15% of the car and the EcoSmart driver is 30% of the pump... either way you bought the mp10 or ect. before the EcoSmart driver came out and you always have to pay more for add-ons unless it's included in the package. Like DSLR Cameras, sometimes they come with an extra lens as part of a promotion. All you can say is that you should have waited, and why fuss over something so simple. Either spend the cash or don't, just don't complain about it unless you are forced to buy it.

 

i mean, you are off-base here with saying that this is like an engine upgrade on the car. you aren't adding horsepower or more efficient or making it less likely to break down -- it's more like you're adding neon running lights.

 

the lens analogy is also completely irrelevant for obvious reasons.

 

i'm not upset that i bought the earlier model. and whether or not i can afford it is not the issue -- the issue is whether the opportunity cost of going with the mp10es is still worth it when 2 tunze/koralia powerheads + a controller can be had for less money. that was not the case with the original mp10. i just don't feel the need to pay a 25% premium for non-substantive add-ons. and, if i were buying it new, i wouldn't pay the 12.5% markup for the ES functionality.

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Nemo Niblets
im a little offended by EchoTechs pricing myself. After getting my mp10. I realized i should have just got a K2. the mp10 is strong yes. But it just shoots a straight blast of current on the other side of my tank. And it goes really fast if i want it too. Great....whoopy......

Are you serious? I had a K1, and two k nanos. On 40% the vortech does better. Are you keeping SPS?

 

If I had the choice between the old model and the new model, for the old pricing and the new pricing, I would get the old model...

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I'm strongly considering buying one of these and seeing if it's worth it.

 

you don't need to buy one to know what the extra functionality is. everything substantive about the functionality of the pump appears to be about the same (unless you have 3 mp10s).

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It's wireless!

 

yes, this is true -- i have no problem with charging extra for the wireless functionality (though i do think the premium they're charging is pretty outlandish, when hooking two koralias to an RKL performs the same basic operation and more for significantly less money). the other stuff, though, should be base functionality. so, the ES is the model i have the problem with.

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yes, this is true -- i have no problem with charging extra for the wireless functionality (though i do think the premium they're charging is pretty outlandish, when hooking two koralias to an RKL performs the same basic operation and more for significantly less money). the other stuff, though, should be base functionality. so, the ES is the model i have the problem with.

 

How much will a RKL and 2 Koralias set you back? How about 2 Koralias and a wavemaker? I got an MP10 so I would have LESS equipment in the viewing area. I would also point out that from my reading (my MP10 arrives tomorrow so I haven't had to contact support) Vortech customer support is pretty good so you're paying for that also.

 

I think the ability to mix MP10's and MP40's could be pretty big for some setups.

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How much will a RKL and 2 Koralias set you back? How about 2 Koralias and a wavemaker? I got an MP10 so I would have LESS equipment in the viewing area. I would also point out that from my reading (my MP10 arrives tomorrow so I haven't had to contact support) Vortech customer support is pretty good so you're paying for that also.

 

I think the ability to mix MP10's and MP40's could be pretty big for some setups.

 

Plus I don't think you can control how much or how little flow the Koralias output. Also, can you do short and long pulses and make waves with Koralias and RKL?

 

I'm already thinking of all the possibilities I can do with different combos of MP10s and MP40s. Before my only options are multiple MP40s and while it would have still worked, having MP10s would give me alot more options.

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How much will a RKL and 2 Koralias set you back? How about 2 Koralias and a wavemaker? I got an MP10 so I would have LESS equipment in the viewing area. I would also point out that from my reading (my MP10 arrives tomorrow so I haven't had to contact support) Vortech customer support is pretty good so you're paying for that also.

 

I think the ability to mix MP10's and MP40's could be pretty big for some setups.

 

i understand about the "less equipment in the tank" part of the vortech -- that is one of the main if not the main reason i bought one in the first place. mine definitely disappears on my back wall, and i like that a lot.

 

however, as far as pricing for a comparable koralia/RKL setup goes, i think it's about $99 for the RKL and $45/each for the controllable koralia 3s (to come out to the total of up to 1900gph compared to the 1575gph that you're getting from the mp10). (for comparison's sake, the red sea wavemaster pro is about $135 at DFS right now, although i don't know why you'd necessarily want this over the RKL).

 

as far as customer support goes, i don't know -- i've called customer support twice for my mp10. i guess they were nice enough. maybe they help other people. they didn't help with my problem either time (vortexing, excessive noise (but not from misalignment)). they also weren't very helpful with my questions about placement/sandstorms. i had more success getting help on nano-reef.com.

 

particularly, i'm not thrilled that they make you send in a broken one toe repair rather than replace it for you. this is especially important for those of us who may be relying on the vortech exclusively for flow, which i'd bet is a large majority of vortech owners, and who wouldn't be able to be without the flow for 2 weeks while ecotech tries to fix it. in my case, about a month after i first got mine, it started making horrible grinding sounds in the middle of the night and stopped working. i was able to mess around with it and get it to work again the next day, but when i called ecotech about them replacing it, they said i'd just have to send it in.

 

for more reading: ask bluenassarius what he thinks about their customer support.

 

at the end of the day, you are paying super premium prices, but you're not getting a commensurate level of support.

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Plus I don't think you can control how much or how little flow the Koralias output. Also, can you do short and long pulses and make waves with Koralias and RKL?

 

I'm already thinking of all the possibilities I can do with different combos of MP10s and MP40s. Before my only options are multiple MP40s and while it would have still worked, having MP10s would give me alot more options.

 

like i said, i could see how having 3+ mp10s (or mp40s) would be beneficial in a larger tank like your 120g. most of us on this website aren't working with that kind of real estate, though. i'm personally working in a 39g cube.

 

as far as the controllability of the koralias, you you have to get the controllable type, but yes you can control the flow volume -- that's why they are listed at variable speeds (e.g. controllable koralia nano is listed at 100-260gph). as far as the short/long pulses and wavemaking with the RKL goes, i don't have one so i don't know for sure, but i don't see why not?

 

look, at the end of the day, i still have an mp10, and i like it well enough. it's certainly a neat pump. and, if you read my first post in this topic, i was excited to see what these would do. but, it's just frustrating as anything to see ecotech charging even more of a premium for what should be a base model. and, it's frustrating to see their upgrade pricing being so out-of-whack for the ES model, when the value you actually get from the upgrade is so limited.

 

at the end of the day, this kind of upgrade could've been priced to reward the loyalty of their existing customers -- instead, it's just made me (and other) existing users frustrated.

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how long does a mp10 usually last before needing to be replaced?

 

To my knowledge, I've yet to read anyone experience them dieing after a certain period. That being said, as with all equipment, they do eventually break down. Vortech's don't break down at a consistent length of time that would deem them to even have a "life".

 

In any case, there's always warranty. I'm sure the thing you should be more concerne about is worrying about water splashing than it dieing on you.

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Nemo Niblets
yes, this is true -- i have no problem with charging extra for the wireless functionality (though i do think the premium they're charging is pretty outlandish, when hooking two koralias to an RKL performs the same basic operation and more for significantly less money). the other stuff, though, should be base functionality. so, the ES is the model i have the problem with.

 

Well, two koralia ones + a reef keeper lite is almost the same amount of money, with less flow, more heat, bulkier, same flow all the time. They're on a timer, yeah, but theres nothing like a vortech. At least, for SPS.

 

MP10s have a reputation for being solid. The MP20 and MP40w aren't as reliable, but the MP10 has problems alot less often.

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Well, two koralia ones + a reef keeper lite is almost the same amount of money, with less flow, more heat, bulkier, same flow all the time. They're on a timer, yeah, but theres nothing like a vortech. At least, for SPS.

 

i think there are pros and cons both ways.

 

you'd get more total flow out out of two controllable koralia 3s (up to 1900gph) than an mp10 (1575gph). also, the mp10 is louder than most submersible propeller pumps i've heard in person. significantly so when it's spun up to 100%.

 

that being said, you're right that you get more heat from the koralias and they take up significantly more in-tank real estate than an mp10.

 

having said that, again, i'm not taking some kind of "anti-vortech" position. like i said, i own an mp10 myself, and i have no plans to trade it out for something else. the position i'm taking is that the "ES" model should just take the place of the mp10 1st generation pump, without the markup, similarly to how the 2nd generation mp40w took the place of the original mp40.

 

then again, i'm sure ecotech has very smart people working in their marketing/sales department(s).

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bananahands
i think there are pros and cons both ways.

 

you'd get more total flow out out of two controllable koralia 3s (up to 1900gph) than an mp10 (1575gph). also, the mp10 is louder than most submersible propeller pumps i've heard in person. significantly so when it's spun up to 100%.

 

that being said, you're right that you get more heat from the koralias and they take up significantly more in-tank real estate than an mp10.

 

having said that, again, i'm not taking some kind of "anti-vortech" position. like i said, i own an mp10 myself, and i have no plans to trade it out for something else. the position i'm taking is that the "ES" model should just take the place of the mp10 1st generation pump, without the markup, similarly to how the 2nd generation mp40w took the place of the original mp40.

 

then again, i'm sure ecotech has very smart people working in their marketing/sales department(s).

 

First let me say that I'm very torn between a MP10 or a RKL with koralias for my new solana.

They both have their benefits.

 

As far as the RKL and koralia route goes, the new koralia evo's are ALL controllable. And if you go the RKL-Koralia route, keep in mind that the RKL does A LOT more than just the wave-maker function. So for the same price (well a little more, lets face it, you'll want/need more than the $99 version of the RKL) you get the the wave-maker function as well as all of the other possiblities the RKL.

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