Pickle's N-R Breeders Lounge

[sparky45]

I'm Sry to hear about you're loss.

[notwithit]

Pickle do you have a website for yer clowns? I'd love to snag one or two.

[Pickle010]

No website - sorry - I post on FB a bunch but most of my clowns go through wholesalers in LA. I have yet to start shipping any.

[notwithit]

Maybe in the next months I can talk you in to sending two this way.

[GTi]

Hi. I hope this is the appropriate place to ask a lengthy question!

 

In short, my Clowns laid eggs in my display, I removed the fry on hatch night, they began dying on day 2 and by the afternoon of day 3 they were all dead. The Clowns have laid again and I would like to try again and wonder if anyone has suggestions on what I did wrong or could have done better.

 

In detail. Oscellaris Clowns laid on a rock in my DT. I turned off the pumps at lights out on Friday night. Within 40 minutes there were lots of fry so I used a light on the far side of my tank (with no light on the nest) to attract the fry over and I proceeded to siphon them out over an hour in batches of a gallon at a time.

 

I transferred the fry to a separate tank that had a small heater running at 79F and a lime wood airstone next to the heater. I had tinted the water with RG Complete from Reed Mariculture and added some rotifers that I had strained out with a 53 micron sieve. I estimated 150+ fry were transferred. Overnight, several died but most seemed active. Salinity was 1.025 like my display tank. Rotifer culture was at 1.019 (trying to balance staying within 0.007 salinity but maximising rotifer production).

 

Added more rots twice daily on Saturday. A few more dead.

 

Sunday morning there were a lot more dead fry. Added more rots and RG Complete. Added a little Otohime A.

 

Monday morning there were only about 6 remaining fry alive. I fed a little Otohime A and a few rots. The fry seemed interested. After feeding I removed 30% of the water and dripped in replacement salt water at about 2 drops per second.

 

By Monday evening all the fry had died.

 

I tested for ammonia this morning and there was none.

 

Any advice?

 

My thoughts:

 

I hear RG Complete is considered too oily for tinting the fry water. Should I try phyto instead?

 

Could the heater light have attracted the fry and they got too close and died? I will cover the light this time around.

 

I used the airstone to bubble next to the heater for good circulation and to keep the fry away. Should I use an airstone or just the airline? Any advice on flow appreciated - I had it so there was some water movement but not so the fry were being blasted around. I wonder if there was too much and they were all exhausted?

 

Could I have put in too many rots and reduced O2 or fouled the water?

 

There is so much information out there and some of it seems conflicting that I am not sure how I can improve my process for the next hatch.

 

Thanks!

[Pickle010]

OK.. so there is a lot going on here...

 

First and foremost I would say that I hope you are feeding the crap out of the parents... the better fed they are the stronger your fry are when they hatch.

 

Siphoning from the tank is a pain - but should be fine. Are you transferring them with just tank water or are you later draining some of the tank water and adding new fresh mixed water? If you aren't dripping in some clean water I would suggest doing so right from the start.

 

I don't use the RG Complete - so I couldn't say anything about it really. I would suggest ensuring you have enough rots in the water though... the fry are horrible hunters and you want them to effortlessly find rots. Shine a light in the tank - you'll be able to see the rot density in the water - if it's thin add more.

 

Remember that rots compete with fry for air. Don't be afraid to turn up your air volume. I like using a regular walmart 1" airstone at the end of the line. It creates more bubbles and keeps things moving.

 

I didn't see any mention of lighting... if the tank is tinted dark the fry need stronger lighting to find the rots... I typically like to light one end well so they can go the other end if it's too bright.

 

In the end there are a lot of things that could affect them early on - right down to what you use to clean the fry tank and equipment you used.

 

Start keeping a log - changing things up and build on what works for you.

[GTi]

OK.. so there is a lot going on here...

 

First and foremost I would say that I hope you are feeding the crap out of the parents... the better fed they are the stronger your fry are when they hatch.

 

Siphoning from the tank is a pain - but should be fine. Are you transferring them with just tank water or are you later draining some of the tank water and adding new fresh mixed water? If you aren't dripping in some clean water I would suggest doing so right from the start.

 

I don't use the RG Complete - so I couldn't say anything about it really. I would suggest ensuring you have enough rots in the water though... the fry are horrible hunters and you want them to effortlessly find rots. Shine a light in the tank - you'll be able to see the rot density in the water - if it's thin add more.

 

Remember that rots compete with fry for air. Don't be afraid to turn up your air volume. I like using a regular walmart 1" airstone at the end of the line. It creates more bubbles and keeps things moving.

 

I didn't see any mention of lighting... if the tank is tinted dark the fry need stronger lighting to find the rots... I typically like to light one end well so they can go the other end if it's too bright.

 

In the end there are a lot of things that could affect them early on - right down to what you use to clean the fry tank and equipment you used.

 

Start keeping a log - changing things up and build on what works for you.

Thanks for the reply!

 

I am feeding the parents more. Initially, the fry seemed strong but I don't have a reference point.

 

I had just used tank water as my parameters are pretty good but I will drip in some new water of the same salinity next time.

 

I had filtered the rots from the culture and I'm pretty sure the density was good but I will be sure to check!

 

My air flow was lowish but did keep the water moving. I will up it.

 

I had a small 50/50 compact fluorescent light shining on half the tank but it was angled to be diffused as I though it might be too bright. I will shine it directly on part of the tank but ensure there is an area of dark for the fry too.

 

As you mentioned there's a lot going on an a huge number of variables!

 

Thanks - I really appreciate the input.

[Pickle010]

No worries - I know it can take time to narrow it down...oh and for reference for a while I would use a standard 10g florescent hood light that reached all the way across the tank for my light. I left it on through meta and never had an issue as long as I kept my water tinted.

 

There are several ways to get to the same place - it's just finding a system that works for you.

[GTi]

No worries - I know it can take time to narrow it down...oh and for reference for a while I would use a standard 10g florescent hood light that reached all the way across the tank for my light. I left it on through meta and never had an issue as long as I kept my water tinted.

 

There are several ways to get to the same place - it's just finding a system that works for you.

Good to know - thanks again! I'll be giving this another shot early next week.

[Powerboat]

No worries - I know it can take time to narrow it down...oh and for reference for a while I would use a standard 10g florescent hood light that reached all the way across the tank for my light. I left it on through meta and never had an issue as long as I kept my water tinted.

 

There are several ways to get to the same place - it's just finding a system that works for you.

Do you still leave your lights on your larvae tank 24/7 until meta?

[Pickle010]

Do you still leave your lights on your larvae tank 24/7 until meta?

 

I do. Meta itself requires a lot of energy on the part of the fry so I want to be sure they are well fed and ready. Leaving the lights on makes it easier for them to find food.

[GTi]

Can anybody comment on this, please? I have about 40 clownfish which are at 11 days post hatch. Around day 6 some hit meta and shortly afte that some more did. About a third of them have gone throug meta now and most ofmthose have 2 stripes. the other 2/3 of the fry have not gone through meta. some look like they might be getting close from their body shapes but some are still small and thin. I expected this to some extent because on hatch night there was a large range of sizes. Is this normal? Will the remaining fry reach meta? I know nothing is a certainty but I would appreciate any advice or comments. Thanks.

[Pickle010]

What are you feeding them and what is the temp of the larvae tank?

[GTi]

80F. Rots, Oto A, BBS and Oto B. Quite a mixture of foods but there's a big range of fry sizes. I am dialing out the rots and Oto A. A few more have hit meta in the last 2 days.

[Pickle010]

WOW - that is a mix - I always felt like feeding OTO A and B at the same time was a waste since OTO A is 250 um and B1 is 250 - 350 um, Since there are grains in the both about the same size - I've never overlapped 3 foods much less 4. I would also think water quality would be harder to control.

 

I would say your temp has a lot to do with it since we know they are getting the nutrition they need. In the future I would run the fry tanks just a bit warmer, I shoot for around 83-84.

 

In my experience the temps and nutrition have the most impact on meta.

[GTi]

Thanks - I'll give that a go. I think there may be something else going on too. Perhaps some fry were weaker from the start - there was a noticeable size difference even on hatch night. Some hit meta after 6 days, some around 14 days and some not at all.

[Pickle010]

No problem - keep posting your progress.

[GTi]

No problem - keep posting your progress.

Will do - I also have detailed info and photos on my tank thread here: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/314048-gtis-55-gallon-rimless-clownfish-fry/page-8

[GTi]

Looks like most have gone through meta now. Some only have a very faint head stripe but there are 5 or 6 that haven't got this far yet. They are at Day 18.

[metrokat]

Hello Mr. Pickle

 

I hope this Q is not inappropriate for this breeder thread as I am not raising fry.

 

I have a pair of spawning clownfish that were laying eggs like clockwork every 10-11 days. They have only recently begun spawning and have had about 10 clutches.

 

For some reason they have not spawned again and it has been more than 10 days. There have been no changes to their spawning area although I have made rockwork changes on the upper regions of the tank. I added a new fish yesterday but they stopped spawning before that. The female still has her genital tube visible and is still chubby but clearly not rotund like just before spawn time.

 

What is the reason they stop or pause spawning? I thought their previous schedule of laying eggs every 10-11 days was a bit excessive, could they be now on a more normal schedule?

[Pickle010]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner... there are several reasons for clowns to stop spawning or to just take a break. It's possible that something as simple as a change in temps may have disrupted the cycle. It would be difficult to pin point exactly what caused it except to say that most pairs like consistency in their breeding environment.

 

It's interesting to me that her genital tube is exposed as that is typically an indication that she is ready to spawn or possibly was going to spawn prior to her decision to stop or abort the spawn. I have had females literally ingest their eggs when they feel as though something is not right.

 

I had one female who became bound - stopped spawning but appeared to continue to produce eggs - her abdomen grew abnormally large - I would watch carefully to ensure that's not the case as that could be prove fatal.

 

If not bound she will most likely start to spawn again once she is satisfied with the conditions / surroundings in her tank.

[metrokat]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner... there are several reasons for clowns to stop spawning or to just take a break. It's possible that something as simple as a change in temps may have disrupted the cycle. It would be difficult to pin point exactly what caused it except to say that most pairs like consistency in their breeding environment.

 

It's interesting to me that her genital tube is exposed as that is typically an indication that she is ready to spawn or possibly was going to spawn prior to her decision to stop or abort the spawn. I have had females literally ingest their eggs when they feel as though something is not right.

 

I had one female who became bound - stopped spawning but appeared to continue to produce eggs - her abdomen grew abnormally large - I would watch carefully to ensure that's not the case as that could be prove fatal.

 

If not bound she will most likely start to spawn again once she is satisfied with the conditions / surroundings in her tank.

Thank you. A day after I posted, I started feeding live black worms and they had another spawn. So all is well.

[Pickle010]

Yeah... love it when it all works out.

[makeitso]

Hi Pickle, have a couple quick questions but just wanted to say thanks for writing this guide. I decided to try to breed clowns as a hobby and I looked to your guide extensively (along with Clownfishes and some other sources). But yours was a reliable resource, so thanks!

 

I have a pair that has laid 4 nests. From the 1st I was left with only a few eggs, managed to hatch them and after 27 days still have 2 fry. So, first question: I'm feeding them a mix of pellets and flakes crushed with mortar and pestle. How often should I be feeding them at this point? Both still only have 1 stripe, but look normally shaped, should I be concerned?

 

Second question, each time the pair lay, they eat most if not all of the eggs. I feed 3 times a day now (4 before they started spawning) but they seem mostly un-interested in the food except for nutrimar ova. I feed frozen mysis, mega marine, prime reef and cyclops along with some pellets. I try to mix it up. The only thing they actively go after is the ova. The pellets they don't even touch any more. When they lay, many of the eggs fairly quickly turn white and they start picking those off. But by the third day or so there are typically fewer than a dozen eggs left. Any ideas?

 

Sorry for the long post, 1st post ever here!! It's just the fish are really nice, I'd love to get more babies and see how they grow, just cannot find any answers.

[Pickle010]

So for your first question - I'm curious what you are feeding prior to the crushed foods? Are you feeding OTO A and then B? Also what type of clown is it? If perculas I wouldn't be concerned as they take much longer to stripe than Ocellaris. If Ocellaris I would look at your feeds and water conditions / temps. Water conditions and temps will play a major role in the development of stripes after feeding.

 

Sounds like your pair is getting spoiled.. lol I would limit the mysis - shrimp tends to make the eggs tougher which makes it harder for the fry to hatch. As to your other foods a good mixture is important. I would suggest soaking some of the foods in garlic or selcon to help entice them to eat. As for frequency - I feed as many times a day as I think about it - most often 5 or more times per day. Remember - the better fed your pair the larger the nests are and the easier it will be to raise the fry.

 

It's painful to watch a pair eat the eggs... seems like some immature spawners take a long time to figure it out... the only thing you can do is be patient. I'm lucky to have multiple pairs and sometimes I'll pull a pot from a pair that is known to eat eggs and give the eggs to another pair to care for. If you don't have that luxury - patience is a must. If they are fed well and the water conditions are good then all you can do is wait - and if you get tired of waiting you can try switching out the male. That will slow you down a while as you wait for the pair to bond and start spawning again so it's an absolute last resort.

 

And I'm glad the guide is working out for you! I'm going to try and update it soon.