killogge Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hi, I'm just starting a new 20H reef tank (anything under 30gal is a nano right?) and got a topfin filter with the cartridge still in, a 301 aquaclear powerhead, 20lbs of live sand, 6 lbs of live rock (as of now, getting some more later when the tank cycles more), a heater, and a normal canopy w/ normal 15w light (getting a power compact retrofit a little later). I don't have a skimmer because i heard that they cause for harm then good in a small tank and I want very few if any fish at all in the tank. Anyway, with the specs out of the way, I was wondering what kind of inverts i can/should get when everything is stable. Did some research and a reef hermit sounds like the best crab and maybe a peppermint? Not sure, need input. Just thinking ahead. THANX!! Link to comment
nalbar Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 well, you should get the inverts you like. all you have to do is make sure the ones you get are compatible. personally i avoid hermits of all kinds. a 20 will hold quite a few inverts. peppermints and sexy shrimp prefer groups of three or more. peppermints, sexy, cleaner shrimp, and porceleon crabs are all peaceful and will not bother each other. nalbar Link to comment
killogge Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 Thanx alot. Do you also know of any corals? Or should I place this in the corals boards? I'd like a wide variety later, but easy ones first (noob lol). Thanx again! Link to comment
nalbar Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 well, if you want 'easy' (i will get nothing except easy) stick with rics, zoos, and shrooms. in my opinion you can get a STUNNING 20h with just those. by allowing them to spread you get a much cleaner look. in my opinion, of course. nalbar Link to comment
matt the fiddler Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 you know. if you dump in a lot of live rock.. your tank will re cycle.. closer to a full cycle rather than a small one. honestly.. get it all now. [minus a few 1-2 lb top off pieces if you so desire] and have the tank cycle once. if you only have 6 lbs. i personally woudl not have less that 20-25.. though i like to go heavy on the LR.. remember LR= food +algae for inverts.. it also filters well ;-) so the more you put in- the more you can have roaming around.. Link to comment
nalbar Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 oops, i missed the 6lbs of rock! my darn invert obsession! the fiddler is absolutely right! add the rock NOW. this will save you a double cycle, which might kill your inverts. my guess is you are about 20 pounds light on rock. nalbar Link to comment
killogge Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 well I don't have any inverts yet, I was just thinking of what kind to get when I do. I also read somewhere that this guy starts his tank by 1) mixing the saltwater and pouring it in. 2) Adding live sand, then waiting for tank to cycle. Later he added the LR left it alone for a few weeks, so I guess that would have counted for a second cycle. Anyway, do you think my powerhead will support those corals? I thought shrooms needed more waterflow... Well, thanx again for the advice on the inverts, I think your right, I'll stick with the peppermint and maybe a porcileon, but why not a reef hermit? I thought they are good sand sifters and algae-eaters if needed. I'll be getting more live rock, but unfortunely I don't get paid for another week. With no fish or inverts it should be ok right? Sorry, a lot of Q's even with all the boards I looked into and everything, lol. THANX again!! Link to comment
matt the fiddler Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 "Adding live sand, then waiting for tank to cycle. Later he added the LR left it alone for a few weeks" that is a very rare case.. auctually if you put dead sand in.. the live rock will seed it.. i use the bioactive sand- and had a short cycle because of it.. HOWEVER.. the sand and the rock will help each other out when you cycle them together.... see, when you cycle.. you want everythign that is gona need to be cycled to be cycled.. .. the sand is auctually the smaller part of the equation [LR will cause more of a swing than LS] sooooo go asap and get about 18 lbs more live rock.. keep up small 10-20% water changes every week or so...... [some will say to do none.. ] and once your nitrates and nitrites go down... [10-15 days] throw in some snails and hermits if you are going to add them.. then they will help the tank cycle.. good luck.. do a search on the board on tank cycling.. we are suming up probably the 96% agreement between people ont he boards.. [and the way most long term reefers do] matt Link to comment
killogge Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 all right, I check it out thanx again. Are you sure the tank can't wait a week til i get the LR, unfortuntely I don't have much money at the moment. Thanx Link to comment
nalbar Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 of course it can wait a week. the point is you are not cycling until EVERYTHING is in. you are just putting the completion of the cycle off a week (or more, depending on the rock) is all. extending it. just so long as you know the new rock will start you all over again fine. most people put it all in at once to cut the cycle down to as short as possible. but if you can't, you can't. because you have already started you are commited to the long cycle anyway. nalbar Link to comment
killogge Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 cool, that's fine. Just means more time for research and everything to get ready for it all. THANX! I'll have to wait a week to put more LR in then I'll top off the water every week, and test the ammonia and nitrite every other day. Then, once the cycle's done (ammonia spike, then nitrite spike) diatom algae should grow, right? That's when I can add clean-up crew (you suggested pepermint shrimp, so about 5?, a proceleon crab, and reef hermit right? (I can't find an LFS with a "cleaner" shrimp.) Then, 2 weeks later, add zoos, shrooms, and rics. I'll wait for a while before I add anything else. Anyway, is this a good plan? Change it if you like. Thanx again Link to comment
nalbar Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 the shrimp are not part of the clean up crew. shrimp come after that stage. they are rather delicate when it comes to water variations. the clean up crew is snails (and/or hermit crabs) for algae/diatoms and perhaps an emerald crab. my clean up was two emeralds and about ten snails in a 7.5g. and i still add snails to replace the loses and some went in my fuge. as far as the two weeks to zoos and such, maybe yes depending on test results. just do not get them all at once but spread that out over weeks also. nalbar Link to comment
matt the fiddler Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 i like to add the clean up crew once nitrites, and nitrates are down, but there is still a lot of ammonia. they are hardy... might loose 1 or 2.. but will help the tank sit in better IMO. nitrate and nitrite will exist usually with uncured rock, so if buying cured- [they come fromt he dieoff] you shouldn't have that probem matt Link to comment
killogge Posted December 31, 2003 Author Share Posted December 31, 2003 yeah, I'm getting cured LR, or at least that's what my LFS said. He bought the rock uncured for cost and cured it himself in his own tanks for a while. Anyway, yeah, I was planning on adding only a little at a time, one or two at the most every 2 weeks or so... Nalbar, does the ammonia raise much if a snail dies in your tank? Do you take them out if you find them? Link to comment
nalbar Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 hehe, actually i just throw them in my fuge. strange behavour i know. in my 7.5 with 5g fuge i get no noticable spike. of course i have never checked as one was decomposing. in your 20 it will make no difference at all (unless it is a particularly large snail!). don't forget, if you are adding LR slowly over weeks you can't add anything important until you are done! nalbar Link to comment
killogge Posted December 31, 2003 Author Share Posted December 31, 2003 k, Thanx alot guys! Link to comment
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