#### you Reef Keeper Temp Probe

[StevieT]

I don't mind companies going more digital especially if you exclusively purchase the product online. inTank did this long ago to save money/time then I realized video speaks louder and is easier than words.

 

But I don't see one thing on their digital PDF download that isn't in the manual provided to me with the product. Maybe I am missing something again.

[nemmy]

Sorry to hear about the tank stevie...

Thanks for the info though on if the temp probe fails the heaters can kick in.

 

I just set my heaters at 82 (my tank temp is usually 79, if i keep them at 79 my sump compartment gets 79 and kicks the heaters too fast so i like to have them a bit higher to solve that, low flow area.)

 

After messing with the RKL, heres what i came up with.

Unplugged temp probe, Alarm01 sounded.

Went into outputs, then to output 3 (heater)

Went to Alarm, set it as the same alarm that sounded when i unplugged itemp 01

Set it to ON when alarm sounds.

 

Took temp probe out and stick my finger on the tip of it so it rose into the 80's, then unplugged the Itemp and the heater kicked on!

 

Just a quick overview on how i did it if you havent messed with yours yet.

[StevieT]

Wow thank you. I can't do this until I receive a new temp probe so thanks for the guide. The RK is pretty easy it navigate you just have to know what to navigate to.

 

I too keep my heater at 82 while RK is set to 79°.

 

Thanks again

[nemmy]

Wow thank you. I can't do this until I receive a new temp probe so thanks for the guide. The RK is pretty easy it navigate you just have to know what to navigate to.

 

I too keep my heater at 82 while RK is set to 79°.

 

Thanks again

 

NP, you got a better reply from them then i did. They took a month to stop ignoring me to finally get some stuff shipped out (new calibration fluid for my Ph probe). My salinity probe is still F'ed up yet they are out of stock so i cant get a new one. Love buying an $80 probe to get jerked around for 2-3 months.

 

Lets hope they still honor me when they come in....

I'm about to post some youtube videos to send them on the situation though.

[bruce922]

Sorry about what happened to your tank Steve. I hope everything works out for you and there is no real damage to your tank. Keep us posted with pics!

 

Bruce

[StevieT]

NP, you got a better reply from them then i did. They took a month to stop ignoring me to finally get some stuff shipped out (new calibration fluid for my Ph probe). My salinity probe is still F'ed up yet they are out of stock so i cant get a new one. Love buying an $80 probe to get jerked around for 2-3 months.

 

Lets hope they still honor me when they come in....

I'm about to post some youtube videos to send them on the situation though.

 

Bummer. Dispute it through paypal if there is still time. I'm all in the mood to #### a little with DA today, lost some sps

[Lalani]

Omigosh, Mr. T.. this sucks.

Hope most of it pulls through..

[TJ_Burton]

Bummer. Dispute it through paypal if there is still time. I'm all in the mood to #### a little with DA today, lost some sps

 

Sh!tty deal mate...

[mrbigshot]

sorry for your loses, there's no way a company could be held responsible for losses incurred though. they sold you the equipment not the livestock. keeping it alive is your responsibility not there's, however ####ty it may be.

 

what all did you lose overall?

[StevieT]

Couple acros. Birdsnest. And some other SPS which I have no idea what it is called is hanging on. Whitish in color but polyps are still green. LPS and softies look fine, fish look fine mandarin is hungry. Will wait and see if anything else dies.

 

Water is much more clear today, will do another change this afternoon after batch is done cooking. I am debating on feeding today or not. I want the mandarin to eat but it probably isn't the best idea.

[Needreefunds]

I don't mind companies going more digital especially if you exclusively purchase the product online. inTank did this long ago to save money/time then I realized video speaks louder and is easier than words.

Absolutely, agree 100%

 

But... vvvv - this - vvvv

But I don't see one thing on their digital PDF download that isn't in the manual provided to me with the product. Maybe I am missing something again.

Searched quite a bit last night. This info- if available- should not be this difficult to locate. Just bits and pieces found after reading various threads.

 

And very sorry about the losses Steve.

[BenGoloid]

Will this crash have any effect on the Mandarin RE: it's food preferences> are there still high 'pod populations in the rock for it to eat?

 

Assuming you don't feed it via some other method, of course. I know this is really not an important issue for you but I was curious of the knock-on effects on the trophic levels in the tank.

[StevieT]

The mandarin is 100% trained to eat frozen food (rods) so it will not effect it's diet. I have not seen any pods floating around and with it in the tank I never see many anyway. A few in the rear chambers every now and then. I am not around the tank at night so no viewing then either.

 

Searched quite a bit last night. This info- if available- should not be this difficult to locate. Just bits and pieces found after reading various threads.

 

I do not consider information on their forums to be provided by the company. It is BS if they expect customers to sift through that garbage for data or support. Forums are great ie. what we do here. More should be in their manual especially about what could have saved my tank, I don't have time to read forums on every product I purchase especially if there is no problem with it, like before this incident.

[timdanger]

sorry for your loses, there's no way a company could be held responsible for losses incurred though. they sold you the equipment not the livestock. keeping it alive is your responsibility not there's, however ####ty it may be.

 

what all did you lose overall?

 

is this your legal advice? it's kind of like when you buy a defective oven that ends up burning down your house, right? the company that sells you the oven only owes you a new oven, of course.

 

seriously, though, why bring this back up when it was already put to rest? TJ and I isolated the factual issue here (which was whether the default setting was so unreasonable as to constitute a design defect). my position was that it's unreasonable for the controller to, by default, turn off the heater because of the probe malfunctions, and that there is a simple and obvious alternative (i.e. to just leave the heater on and rely on the heater's internal thermostat). TJ, fairly, disagrees, and thinks that this is not an unreasonable position for him to take. i think either position is defensible, and that's the question a court would have to evaluate.

 

I do not consider information on their forums to be provided by the company. It is BS if they expect customers to sift through that garbage for data or support. Forums are great ie. what we do here. More should be in their manual especially about what could have saved my tank, I don't have time to read forums on every product I purchase especially if there is no problem with it, like before this incident.

 

agreed. no way is it commercially reasonable to expect a consumer to sift through forums to find that.

[hazmat]

So sorry this happened to your beautiful tank Stevie! I have been researching controllers all day today (coincidentally) thinking I want to get one for the new tank. Then I see this

 

I think this is a lot of people's worst fear! It's like you have to have back up after back up for all your equipment now days. I hope everything recovers. Looks like you will just have to buy some cool new corals to put in your tank.....darn!

[basser1]

is this your legal advice? it's kind of like when you buy a defective oven that ends up burning down your house, right? the company that sells you the oven only owes you a new oven, of course.

 

seriously, though, why bring this back up when it was already put to rest? TJ and I isolated the factual issue here (which was whether the default setting was so unreasonable as to constitute a design defect). my position was that it's unreasonable for the controller to, by default, turn off the heater because of the probe malfunctions, and that there is a simple and obvious alternative (i.e. to just leave the heater on and rely on the heater's internal thermostat). TJ, fairly, disagrees, and thinks that this is not an unreasonable position for him to take. i think either position is defensible, and that's the question a court would have to evaluate.

 

 

 

agreed. no way is it commercially reasonable to expect a consumer to sift through forums to find that.

 

 

I think I see an upcoming episode on Judge Judy!!!

[acropora1981]

is this your legal advice? it's kind of like when you buy a defective oven that ends up burning down your house, right? the company that sells you the oven only owes you a new oven, of course.

 

lol I'd say its more akin to the thermostat in your oven failing and buring your roast; the manufacturer would replace the thermostat, and say 'sorry bout the roast' ...

 

StevieT sorry about your loses man. Happened to me once about 10 years back, came back from vacation to a swamp. It hurts, but the hurt goes away. Eventually.

[nmbr6]

To get the NET module setup so that you can access the webserver from the internet is a fairly simple thing your IT person should be able to do. It can work on any port so the IT guy could pick one that is not in use. He will then setup some forwarding rules to that device on the network. If you have an Iphone there is also an app that someone made for it.

 

As most have said crap fails sometimes. It's the way of life. A common complaint is DA's documentation so they should update it with more examples.

[10001110101]

Stevie, I once fell in love with this tank, watching it from afar...

 

Honestly, your tank is "the" tank by which all other NANOS should be judged IMO.

 

you did everything right... don't blame yourself... the question is how cold does your office get? personally I would never put a tank in a place that didn't ever maintain an ambient temp that would allow the tank to drop to 60 deg...

 

I had a similar experience when I moved, it was october and the coldest day of the month, and the power co screwed up and turned my power off, both me and my JUST TRANSLOCATED fishies froze... I lost a harlequin shrimp, skunk shrimp, and some nice fish, not to mention all the things that died of stress down the line... first the move, then the massive temp drop...

 

I ended up demanding reimbursement from the power CO, they gave me a check for 100 bucks to shut up and go away, but it didn't come close to covering the costs and emotional costs as well!

 

It is crushing to see the mayhem, it's like a natural disaster ripping through your hometown... but you know it just makes these tanks that much more beautiful, they are all fragile and sitting on a razor's edge waiting to completely collapse at any moment.

 

You can never be prepared enough.

 

That being said, you should ALWAYS have fail safe alerts if you don't see your tank at least daily, the more your tank RELIES on life support like heaters, pumps, powerheads etc... the more failsafes you need.

 

if you know that if device A fails, your tank will crash, then you must have a system to report a failure, AND a failsafe... maybe a small 50w heater back-up running all the time or just a separate battery operated sensor that pages you when temp drops...

 

because if your light doesn't turn on for 48 hours no big deal, if your sump pump kicks off no big deal...

 

but if temp drops, tank is nuked.

 

the other thing to always consider is this:

 

plumbing can and will fail you! always have water sensors on the floor/in the stand, not just for the safety of your tank, but for the protection of your office/home whatever.

 

water can do A LOT of damage, especially saltwater... get a H20 sensor to detect leakage if your overflow gets clogged or god knows what happens...

 

people have lost 700g tanks to stupid plumbing clogs, if it can happen, it absolutely WILL happen.

 

I am very sorry for this, but it looks like most of your tank made it through, your tank was an inspiration to me and many on this site...

 

 

 

Why did you switch to the PHOENIX 14K? too blue if you ask me (and a bit monochromatic to boot)... phoenix 14k is like a poor man's Radium IMO, almost a 20k spec, great for a tank with no actinic supplementation, or if you're going for an other-worldly deep water look LPS/SOFTY tank... (dendros/zoas/lps come to mind)

 

I don't think you know how great that Giesemann bulb was in combination with your 420/460 actinics... the giesemann is a very high PAR bulb with excellent color rendering... i think the phoenix is ultimately going to disappoint you when it doesn't really burn in much whiter than it is.

 

the Giesemann 14.5k is in a class by itself IMO, it is a pure white light with a strong spike in the actinic range... so it basically gives the perfect natural look, it can look yellow if water quality shifts, but a little carbon clears that right up... your lighting for this tank set a great example and i hate to see you go over to the blue side... The Gman 14.5 is also a PAR monster... Par values between your average 10k and an Iwasaki if i remember correctly... so expect growth to diminish with the phoenix.

 

personally I like the look of the phoenix, but really only as a stand-alone if you choose to run MH only (which I prefer actually) but it is just like a radium knock off IMO, and doesn't have that radium white/ice blue crispness to it.

 

but i'm glad you didn't switch to T5's at least.

 

My vote is to go back to the giesemann 14.5k (you'll be amazed how good a fresh bulb looks) with some fresh actinics, or do it right and get a Radium if you want more blue (that is unless you have an electronic ballast, which you won't unless you swapped out the stock ballast, radiums look better (whiter and brighter) on mag HQI ballasts.

[10001110101]

And once again, so sorry about your loss...

 

The company who made the sensor should at least REFUND your money for the faulty device... and send you a free radium of course

 

It's a shame when we can't put faith in solid state electronics...

 

Oh and i'd invest in a battery back up (like an UPS) and just have it hooked up to your heater and one powerhead... you can actually do a DIY one with a car battery that will keep the whole tank running (heater, all circulation, lighting and pro-skim) for a while, get a GEL-cell optima though for safety reasons if you choose this route.

 

 

and as far as legal issues are concerned, it will be almost impossible to establish cause for the device's manufacturer to reimburse you for the losses in your tank... they may give you some sort of cash payment as reimbursement, but there are far too many degrees of separation between them and what happens to your livestock.

 

now if your building burned down... you might have a case, but this represents a different type of liability. and if they are reputable, they will at least offer you somethng.

 

the only real action you can take is probably to file a complaint with the BBB, all complaints through the BBB begin a resolution process, so unless they are fine with having a trashed rep on the BBB (some companies in this hobby are) they will try to meet you half way.

 

but you'll never get them to pay for your livestock, there are too many variables, it is too difficult to prove the cause of the losses (they could have died for other reasons even though we all know why they died) and devices DO fail, it has to be established that they were negligent... (IE the manufacturing process cut corners or quality control did not mean reasonable standards)

 

if they do everything "reasonable" to make a product that "shouldn't fail under normal conditions subjected to normal wear and tear" then really you can't do anything.

 

consider recalls which happen a lot in the auto industry, a certain number of people have to get hurt before a recall is ever performed (part of this is corporate action, part of it is legal) because any manufactured product is susceptible to defects... you also have to consider the effects of the environment, shipping, etc.

[timdanger]

of all the responses on this issue, this is the most concerning. you hit on a lot of buzzwords, and you give the impression that you know what you're talking about, but you are completely wrong on (or miss entirely) the relevant legal issues/rules. so, you sound persuasive, but you give bad advice.

 

and as far as legal issues are concerned, it will be almost impossible to establish cause for the device's manufacturer to reimburse you for the losses in your tank... they may give you some sort of cash payment as reimbursement, but there are far too many degrees of separation between them and what happens to your livestock.

proximate cause can sometimes be a tricky issue, but not here. here, it's pretty clear that the temp probe failed, which made the controller make a (IMO) defective response. the circumstantial evidence makes it obvious what happened here: the controller turned the heater off, the lack of heater caused the tank to cool beyond acceptable levels. the only question is whether the controller's response represents a design defect.

 

 

now if your building burned down... you might have a case, but this represents a different type of liability.

false. although you can have varying degrees of liability, damage to property is damage to property, regardless of scale.

 

the only real action you can take is probably to file a complaint with the BBB, all complaints through the BBB begin a resolution process, so unless they are fine with having a trashed rep on the BBB (some companies in this hobby are) they will try to meet you half way.

BBB is certainly an avenue i often recommend to try and get complaints resolved without resorting to courts. however, it's certainly not the only option available.

 

but you'll never get them to pay for your livestock, there are too many variables, it is too difficult to prove the cause of the losses (they could have died for other reasons even though we all know why they died) and devices DO fail, it has to be established that they were negligent... (IE the manufacturing process cut corners or quality control did not mean reasonable standards)

no, you don't have to establish negligence in products liability cases. negligence is only one of several ways of establishing liability. you can also establish liability based on intent, misrepresentation, strict tort liability (for something unreasonably dangerous), breach of express warranty, or breach of implied warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose.

 

if they do everything "reasonable" to make a product that "shouldn't fail under normal conditions subjected to normal wear and tear" then really you can't do anything.

you have a misunderstanding of the issue. the problem isn't that the temp probe, or any other component, failed/malfunctioned. the problem is that the controller was programmed to intentionally turn off the heater because the temp probe failed. so, doing exactly what it was programmed to do resulted in damages. again, whether that amounts to a design defect is a factual determination, but that is the issue.

 

consider recalls which happen a lot in the auto industry, a certain number of people have to get hurt before a recall is ever performed (part of this is corporate action, part of it is legal) because any manufactured product is susceptible to defects... you also have to consider the effects of the environment, shipping, etc.

you don't have to wait for someone to get hurt to have a recall, and a recall isn't a legal issue (although a recall may be part of a settlement). in any event, this is irrelevant.

[jfarabaugh]

How is the tank doing?

[StevieT]

Lost almost all SPS. Still alive is my large green slimer acro, red stag, superman monti. My huge purple monti in the middle is almost all white except for the edges. Debating what do do with it.

[Lalani]

Man, if I had more SPS, I'd send some your way after everything settled down.

[timdanger]

sorry dude.