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andru24

Andru24's 40 Breeder + DIY Stand Project

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andru24

So this is my plan for the 40 breeder tank that I received for my birthday from the wife. I was originally planning on drilling the bottom but the tank has tempered glass so I'll be drilling one of the small sides instead. I am going for a peninsula look here with cabinet doors on both of the larger sides, and the overflow pipes entering the stand through one of the smaller sides.

 

I think I am going to make the stand out of pine (mostly 1x4's), should be strong enough right? The opening/shelf on the bottom is part of the agreement with the wife that the stand not block any of the central air vents in the house. Also should make a good shelf if we move later.

 

40BreederBack.jpg

 

Inside the stand will be a sump, not sure what size yet. But it will have the Tunze skimmer I am currently using in my 29g BioCube, a refugium with a return pump in the middle chamber. The tank itself will have a full width overflow with no teeth but a cover that will leave an 1/8" - 1/4" slit that the water will go through before going out the drain pipe.

 

40BreederFront.jpg

 

I'll probably be using some kind of MH lighting unless I get real ambitious and make an led lamp.

 

The things I need help with are:

 

1) What type of flowrate do I need in a return pump? and what's a good pump to get?

 

2) What should I do for a drain pipe? Do I need two separate drains and if so at what point do they come back together or do they remain separate all the way to the sump?

 

3) What size piping should I use and what size bulkheads?

 

4) I was going to make most of the joints with biscuits and glue, does this seem sturdy enough?

 

5) Any other suggestions/criticisms?

 

 

Thanks in advance. This site has always been a wealth of information...

 

-Andy

Edited by andru24

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seabass
The things I need help with are:

 

1) What type of flowrate do I need in a return pump? and what's a good pump to get?

Less than your overflow is rated for. Powerheads will provide the additional flow that you'll need for the display.

 

2) What should I do for a drain pipe? Do I need two separate drains and if so at what point do they come back together or do they remain separate all the way to the sump?
Sounds like you'll be using external Durso standpipes. Redundancy is good, but not required. If you are using two, I'd keep them separate all the way.

 

3) What size piping should I use and what size bulkheads?
I'd use either 1" or 1.5" bulkheads.

 

4) I was going to make most of the joints with biscuits and glue, does this seem sturdy enough?
I think that it is possible to make a sturdy tank stand this way. However, for my skill level, I'm more comfortable using 2x4s and glued Kreg Joinery. You might want to look for some tank stand plans that you can use/modify.

 

5) Any other suggestions/criticisms?
I'd consider using doors only on one side. A solid side will make the stand sturdier (you can make it look like doors if you want that look). Sorry, I'm not a master craftsman, so take my stand recommendations with that in mind.

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twichstile

1X4s should be fine, my 55 sits on these aswell, just make sure its "wood on top of wood."

While you are in the planning stages, I'd integrate a closed loop setup and dodge the powerheads.

 

Your return pump gph depends on whether you have a refugium or a sump, but my favorites are QuietOne and Maxijet Utility pumps.

 

Cool idea on the lid for the overflow!

I'd hard plumb all I could. Cant wait to see it!

Edited by twichstile

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andru24
1X4s should be fine, my 55 sits on these aswell, just make sure its "wood on top of wood."

While you are in the planning stages, I'd integrate a closed loop setup and dodge the powerheads.

 

Your return pump gph depends on whether you have a refugium or a sump, but my favorites are QuietOne and Maxijet Utility pumps.

 

Cool idea on the lid for the overflow!

I'd hard plumb all I could. Cant wait to see it!

 

I thought about doing a closed loop but wouldn't that be better if i could actually drill the bottom?

 

Also how do I figure out what the overflow can handle? I assume it's based on the diameter and number of the drain pipes.

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seabass
I thought about doing a closed loop but wouldn't that be better if i could actually drill the bottom?
Nah, you could drill the back for a nice clean look. However, new powerheads like VorTechs can provide even better flow patterns.

 

Also how do I figure out what the overflow can handle? I assume it's based on the diameter and number of the drain pipes.
Refer to a calculator. I'd figure the limit of the linear overflow and then the drain(s) next.

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andru24
Less than your overflow is rated for. Powerheads will provide the additional flow that you'll need for the display.

I was thinking one of the Vortechs on the opposite end from the overflow.

 

Sounds like you'll be using external Durso standpipes. Redundancy is good, but not required. If you are using two, I'd keep them separate all the way.

 

I'd use either 1" or 1.5" bulkheads.

I wasn't really sure what type of drain to use, but is external Durso the way to go?

 

 

I think that it is possible to make a sturdy tank stand this way. However, for my skill level, I'm more comfortable using 2x4s and glued Kreg Joinery. You might want to look for some tank stand plans that you can use/modify.

I think the biscuits should be fine, since I am going to make sure that the main horizontal pieces actually sit on top of some of the vertical pieces to help alleviate some of the strain on the joint. I was actually looking through TheProfessor's 40 breeder thread and he used that type of joinery but I had never done it and wasn't sure how you do it.

 

Refer to a calculator. I'd figure the limit of the linear overflow and then the drain(s) next.

 

Ok, according to the calculator and the fact that the in tank overflow will be a bit less than 18", it seems like I should shoot for a pump at around 1000gph with a 1.5"bulkhead (or 2 1"). Seem right?

 

Using the following input parameters

Gallons per Hour = 1100

 

Drain and Overflow sizes are calculated as

Recommended minimum drain pipe diameter = 1.43 inches

Recommended minimum linear overflow size = 17 inches

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seabass
I was thinking one of the Vortechs on the opposite end from the overflow.
I like that.

 

I wasn't really sure what type of drain to use, but is external Durso the way to go?
For out the back, I'd say yes.

 

I think the biscuits should be fine... I was actually looking through TheProfessor's 40 breeder thread and he used that type of joinery but I had never done it and wasn't sure how you do it.
Professor's stand is nice. Biscuits will work fine if you have the tools already; however, if you still need to buy tools, Kreg Jigs are really easy and make strong joints.

 

Ok, according to the calculator and the fact that the in tank overflow will be a bit less than 18", it seems like I should shoot for a pump at around 1000gph with a 1.5"bulkhead (or 2 1"). Seem right?

 

Using the following input parameters

Gallons per Hour = 1100

 

Drain and Overflow sizes are calculated as

Recommended minimum drain pipe diameter = 1.43 inches

Recommended minimum linear overflow size = 17 inches

That should work, but I might go with a little smaller pump to plan for some blockage (it might make the drain a bit less noisy too). Remember to calculate head pressure when choosing your pump, or it will return a lot less water than you planned. Edited by seabass

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bad coffee

If you're putting a vortech, you won't need 1100gph through the overflow. Remember more water movement = more noise. I'd shoot for 700-900gph through the sump.

 

How are you plumbing the return?

 

I have an external overflow on my 58. Because of the size of the overflow box the tank has to sit 5" away from the wall. My tank looks huge, and there's some wasted space behind the tank. Since you're building a peninsula tank, can you stand to loose 4" of tank, and move your divider farther out? That way you could drill the bottom and keep the sides clean.

 

You could biscuit and glue for the stand, but if you don't have a biscuit cutter you'll need to rent or buy one. You'll also need clamps. I bought Pony bar clams and had some 1/2" pipe cut for them. I bought one for a project and used it about 6 times in 10 years. Not really cost effective. I just bought a kreg jig and it's much quicker and easier to use. I did just use it in plywood, and I had to be really careful of stripping out screws. If you're going to be using solid lumber, it should work fine.

 

Only put doors on the front, make the back and sides solid. It will make for a more solid stand.

 

Why is the bottom raised up? For looks or another reason? You might need some support on the bottom to support the weight of the sump.

 

B

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evilc66

AGA/Aqueon 40 Breeders are not tempered on the bottom. At least they weren't when I drilled mine 6-7 months ago. The tanks aren't big enough to warrant tempered glass.

 

I agree with bad coffee on the flow rate. You don't want your entire tank flow going through the sump. You lose contact time with the fuge and the skimmer with such high flow rates, and reduce efficiency. You are going to want more than 1100gph in that tank anyway.

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andru24
If you're putting a vortech, you won't need 1100gph through the overflow. Remember more water movement = more noise. I'd shoot for 700-900gph through the sump.

 

How are you plumbing the return?

 

I have an external overflow on my 58. Because of the size of the overflow box the tank has to sit 5" away from the wall. My tank looks huge, and there's some wasted space behind the tank. Since you're building a peninsula tank, can you stand to loose 4" of tank, and move your divider farther out? That way you could drill the bottom and keep the sides clean.

 

You could biscuit and glue for the stand, but if you don't have a biscuit cutter you'll need to rent or buy one. You'll also need clamps. I bought Pony bar clams and had some 1/2" pipe cut for them. I bought one for a project and used it about 6 times in 10 years. Not really cost effective. I just bought a kreg jig and it's much quicker and easier to use. I did just use it in plywood, and I had to be really careful of stripping out screws. If you're going to be using solid lumber, it should work fine.

 

Only put doors on the front, make the back and sides solid. It will make for a more solid stand.

 

Why is the bottom raised up? For looks or another reason? You might need some support on the bottom to support the weight of the sump.

 

B

 

The bottom is tempered on the tank I have so drilling that is not an option though I would have preferred that.

 

I already have a biscuit cutter and everything else I need for that style joinery and don't really want to spend the extra money for the Kreg joint kit if I don't have to.

 

Since it is a peninsula tank there isn't really a front/back which is why I wanted doors on both sides, though I can always fake that.

 

The bottom is raised because the wife doesn't want any of the central air vents blocked so I left an opening for the air to pass through (it's going to start out against a wall and later be turned into a peninsula.)

 

 

AGA/Aqueon 40 Breeders are not tempered on the bottom. At least they weren't when I drilled mine 6-7 months ago. The tanks aren't big enough to warrant tempered glass.

 

I agree with bad coffee on the flow rate. You don't want your entire tank flow going through the sump. You lose contact time with the fuge and the skimmer with such high flow rates, and reduce efficiency. You are going to want more than 1100gph in that tank anyway.

 

I was planning on putting a T in the drain pipe to go to a filter sock, skimmer, etc. on one side of the sump and the refugium on the other with the return pump in the middle.

 

Does the QUIET ONE PUMP 3000 (780 gph) seem reasonable?

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seabass
Does the QUIET ONE PUMP 3000 (780 gph) seem reasonable?
What's the head height going to be? There are calculators and better ways to determine head height (head pressure); but VERY roughly, it is the vertical distance in feet plus the number of 90deg elbows.

 

That Quiet One pumps are OK, but that one will produce a lot less than 780gph. Mag-Drive pumps are also OK, but I'm really including this link because it has a good head height chart down the page.

Edited by seabass

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evilc66

You will probably want a pump capable of 900-1000gph before head loses. Quiet One's are good for a cheap pump, but sometimes a little hit or miss as to whether they are actually quiet. The new Maxijet Utility pumps are great, and dead quiet. I'd take one of those over a Mag any day.

 

Is the tank a Perfecto? I know AGA 40Bs aren't tempered.

Edited by evilc66

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andru24
You will probably want a pump capable of 900-1000gph before head loses. Quiet One's are good for a cheap pump, but sometimes a little hit or miss as to whether they are actually quiet. The new Maxijet Utility pumps are great, and dead quiet. I'd take one of those over a Mag any day.

 

Is the tank a Perfecto? I know AGA 40Bs aren't tempered.

 

Ok, I will look at the Maxijet's as well.

 

It's a marineland tank that my LFS had laying around for a long time, and they were willing to give me a deal on it.

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seabass
It's a marineland tank that my LFS had laying around for a long time, and they were willing to give me a deal on it.
If you really want to drill the bottom, is it really worth saving $50 to $70 on the other tank? Just a thought.

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andru24
If you really want to drill the bottom, is it really worth saving $50 to $70 on the other tank? Just a thought.

 

Agreed but it was also a gift from the wife for my birthday, so... I'll probably talk to the guy at the LFS to see if he'll let me swap it some time when the wife is not around.

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ajmckay
Agreed but it was also a gift from the wife for my birthday, so... I'll probably talk to the guy at the LFS to see if he'll let me swap it some time when the wife is not around.

 

:ninja: Dude.... Total ninja move. haha

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andru24
:ninja: Dude.... Total ninja move. haha

 

So I'll be getting the LFS to order me a replacement Aqueon 40 breeder instead of the marineland. The guy didn't believe me that they weren't tempered on the bottom but I showed him the website, so I should have it on Tuesday.

 

So to summarize the plan as of right now.

 

- Aqueon 40 breeder bottom drilled

- Probably a 15g or 20h sump with chambers as follows: skimmer | middle return | refugium (t'd from the drain pipe)

- MP10 Vortech

- Maxi-Jet Submersible Utility Pump 4500, 1175 gph (950 @ 2ft, 750 @ 4ft). So I figure it will be around 850 or so in the sump.

- Tunze Nano Doc skimmer

- Lighting: unsure as of right now. Probably MH pendant

Edited by andru24

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andru24

So I am settled on a bottom drilled tank for my drain and return lines. I am planning on doing a Herbie drain with.

 

What size should my two drain lines be? 1 @ 1.5" and 1 @ 1"?

 

How about the return line?

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fishieCJ

From what you have said only shooting for about 800 gph through the sump i think the 1 @ 1.5" and 1 @ 1" but if you didnt want to mss with different size pipe 2 @ 1.5" would be fine too. Also i believe that the size of your return depends on your pump.but i think the maxijet utility 3000 is a 3/4 inch return.

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andru24
From what you have said only shooting for about 800 gph through the sump i think the 1 @ 1.5" and 1 @ 1" but if you didnt want to mss with different size pipe 2 @ 1.5" would be fine too. Also i believe that the size of your return depends on your pump.but i think the maxijet utility 3000 is a 3/4 inch return.

 

Does 800 gph not seem like enough?

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andru24

New goodies!

 

IMG_1792.jpg

 

The MP10 is in my BC29 until the new tank is ready. That thing is awesome... well worth the money.

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andru24

One plumbing question:

 

1) The pump has a 1/2" or 3/4" discharge nozzle. Does it matter which one I go with? I'll probably go with the 3/4" all the way to the tank then I can always downgrade it to 1/2" for the loc-line. Seem reasonable?

 

 

For the drain pipes I think I am going to go with 2 1.5" bulkheads, herbie-style just so I don't have to get a third size glass cutting saw.

 

So in total I will have 3 bulkheads, 2 @ 1.5" and 1 @ 3/4".

 

I am still waiting on my LFS to get my new 40breeder after returning the original tempered one. Once I get that the construction of the stand will begin.

 

-Andy

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andru24

I am thinking of getting a coralife aqualight pro 150W mh 36" fixture for this project. Does this seem like a good option? I wasn't sure if 150w was enough or whether I should jump up to 250w.

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Trolldoll

I'd go with a good T5 or two 150w MH

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