Fishless Cycling w/ LR & Ammonia

[k1netics]

After about two weeks of no noticeable increase in any of the water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) I decided to spike the ammonia using 100% pure ammonia. Once I did this, I noticed that the switch to nitrite was very quick (about a day) and have also observed quite a large diatom bloom on the rock and sand. There are definitely little white specs on the glass and throughout the tank (copepods?). As I speak the ammonia level is at 0.25 and dropping with nitrites at about 4ppm and nitrates at 10ppm.

 

My question is, should I continue to feed the tank with reduced amounts of ammonia or stop the input and let the tank just do its thing?

[seabass]

let the tank just do its thing?

Yep, let it do its thing.

 

What did you use as pure ammonia?

[k1netics]

Regular liquid household ammonia with no phosphates or any sulfactants. Pure stuff.

[lakshwadeep]

You should not be adding ammonia if there is live rock because you don't know if the amount of ammonia you're adding is going to be the same as what your livestock will be producing (i.e. you could increase the bacteria population to higher levels than necessary). Not every tank will have a noticeable ammonia spike, and that is actually a good thing since it means you can add livestock soon. I'm guessing you have freshwater experience; the role of live rock as a filter can be hard to believe since there is no exact FW equivalent.

[k1netics]

You hit the nail on the head lakshwadeep. I'm very familiar with freshwater and am confused with the live rock. So what do you suggest I do now as i've already been adding ammonia?

 

I will obviously stop adding it now that I know the live rock is producing it however small that may be. I'm assuming I can wait until I get 0, 0 and a nitrate level and then do a 50% water change before adding CUC?

[lakshwadeep]

Just leave the tank alone. Ammonia is safer than adding some type of dead shrimp or other thing that could decay, and household ammonia you used is likely very dilute.

 

Your assumption is correct. To get a head start on choosing a CUC, read this:

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/cleanupcrew.html

[Arkayology]

pee in the tank

[k1netics]

Lol. I would if humans actually pee'd ammonia. Nice try SoCal!

[callmesaul8889]

hey, i dont mean to jump in, but it seems as if you don't fully understand the steps of a cycle? hopefully this will explain live rock as well...

 

ammonia->nitrites->nitrates

 

now the only reason most people get an ammonia spike is because they buy live rock, get it shipped to their house, and during the shipping, some of the bacteria on the rock dies.... when anything dies in your tank, it gets decomposed and turned to ammonia. so an ammonia spike from the excessive die-off from live rock when comes from one of the following: 1. not fully cured rock 2. cured rock that's then shipped 3. anytime the rock sits out of water for a period of time or finally 4. cured rock thats been exposed to harsh water conditions(kind of)

 

so what live rock essentially does is houses bacteria that converts ammonia->nitrites->nitrates

 

by adding ammonia to your tank, you could possibly be killing the bacteria that's still on the rock.

 

check out the soft cycle post in the biological filtration forum. hopefully it will help shorten your cycle

 

if i'm wrong by any means, someone please correct me

[r33fn00b]

As I was going to ask the same question, I will post in here. So it is safe to assume that if you have live sand and live rock, you put everything in and let it sit for a week or two, and you really dont get any spikes, that it is ok to assume that the tank has cycled and you can add a CUC?

 

My params are the same as they were the day I put in the tank:

 

Ammonia: 0

Nitrites: 0

Nitrates: 0

PH: 8.2

 

Is there something wrong? Should I, like k1netics add something to the tank?

[seabass]

Is there something wrong? Should I, like k1netics add something to the tank?

No, don't add anything (LR is all you need). Just add livestock slowly and continue to monitor the levels.

[r33fn00b]

I also hear of tons of people that will cycle their tank and have lots of algae for a clean up crew to eat. I do not have this. Would it be smart to get fish and then cleanup or still get the cleanup first?

[lakshwadeep]

Add the clean up crew first (you don't/shouldn't have to add a lot) because they have a low impact on bioload. Algae is inevitable in almost any new tank.

[callmesaul8889]

yeah, i just upgraded tanks, i wasnt expecting any algae at all, and i had a mini diatom bloom. it should happen sooner or later

[organism]

I also hear of tons of people that will cycle their tank and have lots of algae for a clean up crew to eat. I do not have this. Would it be smart to get fish and then cleanup or still get the cleanup first?

 

I'd go with a small clean-up crew first, but you can get those and a fish at the same time if you'd like. The main thing is to not start adding in too much at once or you can have some issues.