evilc66 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Rust in the ocean is a vastly different deal than rust in our small little glass boxes. While the concentration may be the sameat any given time, the concentration in the ocean is constantly moving and diluting. Not so much in our tanks. While Hydorman seems to think that there is no direct contact between water and magnet, something has to be causing the rust. anyone actually check to see if the magent is actually wet once they take it apart? Again, it may be more than rust that is creating the problems. There have been numerous threads here about a random screw or impeeler shaft rusting causing issues in the tank, and going back to normal once the issue is corrected. Screws are an alloy, just like the magnets and have other components other than iron that can leach in to the water. Even stainless steel is not safe. Fortunately, once the magnets are coated and reinstalled, the problem should correct itself over time, if this indeed is the problem. Link to comment
StevieT Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 wtf! "even if its rust"?! what the heck else COULD it be! ahahahaand who are they to tell us what affect it may or may not have on our systems! we have hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars of LS in them! and did they do a study to see if the rusty magnets really have NO effect whatsoever? i think not... well i didnt spend the money to buy some faulty equipment, i spent it on stuff i thought was quality andwould help my reef THRIVE, not potentially create a toxic situation! you have no idea yet if that is the cause of a problem or not. Also it doesn't sound like you an issue that you can directly pinpoint to a magnet. You should wait for better information before you impulsively blame someone or something. I'm not taking a side either way, I just don't like these threads becoming a scapegoat for random problems. I think Prof has handled it well. Rust in the ocean is a vastly different deal than rust in our small little glass boxes. While the concentration may be the sameat any given time, the concentration in the ocean is constantly moving and diluting. Not so much in our tanks. While Hydorman seems to think that there is no direct contact between water and magnet, something has to be causing the rust. anyone actually check to see if the magent is actually wet once they take it apart? Again, it may be more than rust that is creating the problems. There have been numerous threads here about a random screw or impeeler shaft rusting causing issues in the tank, and going back to normal once the issue is corrected. Screws are an alloy, just like the magnets and have other components other than iron that can leach in to the water. Even stainless steel is not safe. Fortunately, once the magnets are coated and reinstalled, the problem should correct itself over time, if this indeed is the problem. I was directly responding to what was quoted. Link to comment
Sapphire Aquatics Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I'm with StevieT on this one. Everybody likes to get fired up about what they perceive to be a problem. Keep in mind that we add rust to our tanks on purpose, and gladly mind you, to remove phosphates from our water. Phosphate absorption media is Ferric Oxide, the most popular of which is GFO at the moment, also known as granular ferric oxide, also known as rust... I'm not saying that whatever elements they add to the magnets composition are not potentially harmful but I seriously doubt any harm will come of it. Link to comment
corallineadam Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 you have no idea yet if that is the cause of a problem or not. Also it doesn't sound like you an issue that you can directly pinpoint to a magnet. You should wait for better information before you impulsively blame someone or something. I'm not taking a side either way, I just don't like these threads becoming a scapegoat for random problems. I think Prof has handled it well. personally i have not been experiencing any problems with my reef. i do however have 3 koralia nanos running in all 3 of my tanks, so i am concerned. my point is, why didnt hydor just make the pump with the magnets fully enclosed? then we wouldnt have to worry... but ywah i dont even perceive any problems with my picos (corals seem happy and everythings good, thank god) but it does worry me... Again, it may be more than rust that is creating the problems. im wiht you on this evil, i dont like having random metal objects in constant contact with my system's water -- it seems like the perfect opportunity for heavy metals to leach into the water column and cause problems in the long-term cumulative toxicity is a very hard thing for even specialists to quantify... i dont want my corals to suffer down the line because the metals in that magnet have been slowly leaching... Link to comment
corallineadam Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 i just called hydor in sacramento and spoke to the rep over there. he did not know much about the situation. he said he had spoke to bonsai earlier about the same issue.he said he was waiting to hear back from the tech's over there about what exactly the magnets were made out of and what exactly they were coated with. he said that unless the coating comes off or corrodes away, the magnets are coated with a protective coating that resists corrosion. he also said that if my magnets were bad, or if i wanted to replace them, he would send me new ones. they wanted the serial numbers of my powerheads to make sure it was not an issue with the entire batch of nano's that my pump came from... Link to comment
evilc66 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 im wiht you on this evil, i dont like having random metal objects in constant contact with my system's water -- it seems like the perfect opportunity for heavy metals to leach into the water column and cause problems in the long-termcumulative toxicity is a very hard thing for even specialists to quantify... i dont want my corals to suffer down the line because the metals in that magnet have been slowly leaching... I don't want unkown metals in my tank either, but we do need to quantify exactly what is causing the issues with certain tanks before we start pointing a loaded gun. For all we know, the issues are completely unrelated to the rusting magnet. There is the possibility that it is creating issues though. What we need to do now is collect information. We need to know if the magnets are wet when they are removed. If they are, there is a greater chance of leaching than if the magnets are dry and it's just rusting from trapped humiditymoisture in the assembly. We also need to know what the magnet composition is. This will just help us make more educated assumptions about what is potentially happening, not find a scapegoat. We also should implement some of the proposed fixes on some of the tanks that are experiencing problems, like Weetie's tank. If there is notable improvements with no other changes in the tank, then it's safe to assume that the magnet was creating issues. I agree with StevieT that Prof handled this very well. We all need to follow suit and take this step by step in an orderly fashion. Chaos and panicing gets us nowhere fast. Link to comment
Muggz Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I don't want unkown metals in my tank either, but we do need to quantify exactly what is causing the issues with certain tanks before we start pointing a loaded gun. For all we know, the issues are completely unrelated to the rusting magnet. There is the possibility that it is creating issues though. What we need to do now is collect information. We need to know if the magnets are wet when they are removed. If they are, there is a greater chance of leaching than if the magnets are dry and it's just rusting from trapped humiditymoisture in the assembly. We also need to know what the magnet composition is. This will just help us make more educated assumptions about what is potentially happening, not find a scapegoat. We also should implement some of the proposed fixes on some of the tanks that are experiencing problems, like Weetie's tank. If there is notable improvements with no other changes in the tank, then it's safe to assume that the magnet was creating issues. I agree with StevieT that Prof handled this very well. We all need to follow suit and take this step by step in an orderly fashion. Chaos and panicing gets us nowhere fast. I agree. I also have a Korelia Nano in my BC8, and have issues with corals not growing fast enough (or in some cases not at all), but there are dozens of other contributing factors to that than just the Nano - The first one could possibly be overly-high expectations for coral growth in my tank. I will also check my nano when I get home though. Link to comment
corallineadam Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 as i said before, i have had no adverse effects from my nanos as far as i can tell. my pumps are band new and might not have begun to corrode yet. i will check them later today let you guys know... either way it might not be a bad idea to take hydor up on their offer for free replacement magnets. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I would suggest everyone not flood Hydor with requests for new magnets. It's a quick way for them to pull the offer. Let them figure out if the issue is legitimate. When they decide to take action, they will and will have a program in place to replace magnets. Anyway, if they give you new magnets now, they will just have the same defect. Link to comment
fewskillz Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I'll check mine tonight. If it's rusty I'll be sure to post/email/call with my serial number for Hydor's research. Link to comment
got2envy Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Holllllllllllllllllllly ####. That's just wrong on so many levels. Link to comment
HydorMan Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Let me reiterate that out of the TENS OF THOUSANDs of nano magnets out there, I have only seen pictures of 2 sets of rusty magnets and only a handful of people have even claimed they have had rusty magnets. Statistically speaking you have a better chance of getting in a car accident today and dieing than having an issue with your nano magnet. All nano magnets are sealed in a non reactive, corrosion resistant epoxy which prevents saltwater from coming into contact with the magnets. The only way for saltwater to get to the magnet is if the epoxy coating is damaged. If you have an issue with your Nano, its magnets or any other Hydor product feel free to contact us. Link to comment
lajz9 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 We have found a new scapegoat! Really though, I hope the new ones are sealed lol...I have several... SCAPEGOAT indeed. Now everyone who has a Koralia in their tank is going to blame the magnet for their tank issues...awesome. Link to comment
supertech99 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 do you guys have any suggestions on a materal or coating that the diyer could use to ensure that his magnet does not rust due to chipped or faulty coating? could we just shoot it with spraypaint or some silicone to keep the water off if it? I just recently picked up my first nano (not my first hydor) and noticed the mounting system was different. Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 SCAPEGOAT indeed. Now everyone who has a Koralia in their tank is going to blame the magnet for their tank issues...awesome. It will be funny when we find out (just a guess) that only a few do this and it has no adverse affects. Well time will tell... I used scapegoat and now everyone is, I feel special... Link to comment
corallineadam Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 SCAPEGOAT indeed. Now everyone who has a Koralia in their tank is going to blame the magnet for their tank issues...awesome. or anything else thats going on in their life -- lost your job? getting a divorce? DAMN THAT KORALIA NANO!!! Link to comment
reefinghokie Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 do you guys have any suggestions on a materal or coating that the diyer could use to ensure that his magnet does not rust due to chipped or faulty coating? could we just shoot it with spraypaint or some silicone to keep the water off if it? I just recently picked up my first nano (not my first hydor) and noticed the mounting system was different. You could use something like this. Dont know which is safe but have seen it used before. You can find in at HD. http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip Just super glue fishing line to magnet and dip. I did this for magnets I use for frag racks. Hope this points you in right direction. Link to comment
Professor Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 I was afraid this was going to happen. Before I go any further, I would like to point out that a couple of years ago the Hydor Koralia was the best thing since canned beer in the reefing world, particularly here on NR. It was considered (and should still be) a cost effective alternative to the Tunze and many also considered it to be more aesthetically pleasing as well. This company also brought you the Flo and the Theo heaters which many of us continue to use today. This potential issue is small in the grand scheme of things and under no circumstances did I intend for this to be a rant against Hydor or a thread to try to discourage someone from buying their product. Also, Thanks to Bonsai for talking the point and contacting Hydor on behalf of the community. Stevie, Evil and the rest of the cooler heads out there thanks as well. Again, this was posted for informational purposes. Along that vein my magnet was wet (with salt water) when it was removed. The S/N for my Nano is P19501 with a 729 off to the right. I cannot detect a protective coating on either the wet or dry side. Mr. Hydorman, I am providing this information to help you see if you have a potential issue with a particular batch/lot of Nano's. Anyone who has confirmed a rusted magnet should do the same if for no other reason than to help Hydor out with identifying the problem. I am not concerned with and do not seek recompense, replacement or compensation from Hydor. The course of action others chose to take is up to them. I intend to fix mine and continue to use it. I plan to do this with full knowledge that any warranty I may have left will probably be voided. I will post my fix and procedures for any who wish to use it, at their own risk. Look for that this weekend. Finally, while I freely admit that my evidence that my tanks issues was caused by the rusting magnet is anecdotal at best, I do take offense at those who claim no adverse effect is possible, including Hydorman's statement. Until it is known what the composition of the magnet is, we do not know what is leaching into our tanks. Most heavy metals only cause adverse effect cumulatively over long periods of time (lead, arsenic, etc). In a closed system this would only be worse in my opinion and is consistent with my situation. Hydorman, thanking you for taking the time to check in on this. I am looking forward to further inputs. Let's keep our sanity here guys! Happy Reefing! -Prof Link to comment
Professor Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 I need to amend my above statement. Under magnification it does appear a protective coating is present in my magnet, however it has been compromised and allowed water intrusion under it. -Prof Link to comment
Professor Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 For informational purposes, here is a pic of my rusted magnet under 10X magnification. You can clearly see where the protective coating is starting to bubble underneath (whitish areas) the okay areas (gray) and the lower left hand side where there is full on corrosive action. This portion protrudes ~ 3/16" of an inch above the level of the magnets surface. -Prof Link to comment
psykobowler Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 A modded tunze 6025 gets around 1100 gph for the price of two koralia 1s. No rust issue. Ok, let's worry about something else like global warming or what's for dinner. Link to comment
corallineadam Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 i have had wonderful experiences with hydor koralia pumps as well. i have one koralia 4 that i was running for maybe a year before i tore down that tank. the pump still works fine and i use it to mix water change batches. i have one koralia 1 thats been working great for a few months. i have three koralia nanos. and i have had no problems with them. however, i did inspect my pumps magnets earlier today and although there was no rust, some of the magnets had gouges in the protective epoxy coating. according to the rep at hydor there are two coatings over the rare-earth magnet -- one of zinc, and one of epoxy on top of the zinc. according to the tech i spoke to, the magnets from my pumps were all from the "same batch" (he asked for the serial #'s on the back of the nano). even with the scratch on the epoxy, the zinc coat protects the magnet from exposure to saltwater (but i wouldnt want ZINC leaching into my water either!!! ) either way, they said that this is an isolated incident and they are sending me new magnets. i trust that this shouldnt cause any problems, as my tanks have been doing WONDERFUL and i have a non in each of them either way, i agree no need to panic i am glad that prof brought this issue to everyones attention -- even if its not causing any problem its good to be aware of things that can rust or "go bad" in ones hardware... A modded tunze 6025 gets around 1100 gph for the price of two koralia 1s. No rust issue. Ok, let's worry about something else like global warming or what's for dinner. haha! global warming is a good issue to start worrying about... maybe if everyone on nano reef started biking to work/school wed make up for all the hydrocarbons our tanks are burning (or better yet we should all go solar (i was thinking pv panels, but it just ocured to me -- sun-lit reefs ) Link to comment
Professor Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 A modded tunze 6025 gets around 1100 gph for the price of two koralia 1s. No rust issue. Ok, let's worry about something else like global warming or what's for dinner. Thank you for contributing nothing of value. i have had wonderful experiences with hydor koralia pumps as well. i have one koralia 4 that i was running for maybe a year before i tore down that tank. the pump still works fine and i use it to mix water change batches. i have one koralia 1 thats been working great for a few months. i have three koralia nanos. and i have had no problems with them. however, i did inspect my pumps magnets earlier today and although there was no rust, some of the magnets had gouges in the protective epoxy coating.according to the rep at hydor there are two coatings over the rare-earth magnet -- one of zinc, and one of epoxy on top of the zinc. according to the tech i spoke to, the magnets from my pumps were all from the "same batch" (he asked for the serial #'s on the back of the nano). even with the scratch on the epoxy, the zinc coat protects the magnet from exposure to saltwater (but i wouldnt want ZINC leaching into my water either!!! ) either way, they said that this is an isolated incident and they are sending me new magnets. i trust that this shouldnt cause any problems, as my tanks have been doing WONDERFUL and i have a non in each of them either way, i agree no need to panic i am glad that prof brought this issue to everyones attention -- even if its not causing any problem its good to be aware of things that can rust or "go bad" in ones hardware... haha! global warming is a good issue to start worrying about... maybe if everyone on nano reef started biking to work/school wed make up for all the hydrocarbons our tanks are burning (or better yet we should all go solar (i was thinking pv panels, but it just ocured to me -- sun-lit reefs ) Glad you have a resolution that makes you happy. I am a bit concerned about the Zinc coating. I intend to contact Hydor later this evening to get some more particulars on the magnet and it's manufacture to scratch my own itch and statisfy my curiosity. I will post anything I find out. -Prof - Link to comment
HydorMan Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I believe it is actually nickle plated not zinc. Link to comment
FiRsT-aNd-LaSt Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I have my MP20 now, but I am using the koralia in my sump for extra flow, guess i'll be checking it. Link to comment
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