help! can't keep astrea snails alive

[Jason7504]

my tank is about a month old and after the ammonia and nitrites hit 0 for a week i put 5 snails (2 ceriths, 1 astrea and 2 nass) in and the ceriths just sat there for a while and then dug into the sand a little and didnt move much but were alive..my nass snails were cruising around but my astrea never moved and i checked if it was alive and it was dead. it never moved since it was in my tank..my nitrate was around 5-10 at the time

 

i bought another astrea and that one did the same, it never moved and then was taken out because it died. my ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrates are around 2-4. I did a water change and have a skimmer and fuge running..would that high of nitrates kill astreas?

[bagoegg]

How long did you leave it sit there?

[Jason7504]

How long did you leave it sit there?

 

for about a week and took it out and the smell confirmed its demise

[Otto]

I cant keep mine alive because they keep tipping over and I got tired of flipping them over all the time.

[bagoegg]

Hmm. I dont see why your nitrates would be the problem. I have had mine for months and have had the nitrates that high before. Have you tested your copper?

[Jason7504]

no i dont have a copper test kit but wouldn't that show up on my TDS meter?

[SmittyCoco]

no i dont have a copper test kit but wouldn't that show up on my TDS meter?

 

Well yes. In your ro. What if you have some equipment leaching it into your tank though? If I were you I would try drip acclimating your snails first. Are you just tossing them in right away? Astrea snails can be sensitive to a big salinity change all at once. I.e. Your lfs keeps there sg real low like 1.020 and your throwing them in your 1.025 tank. I would try this first . I had a couple die on me when I brought some home to my well established tank once. I was like wtf? I tested the lfs water and it was like forementioned. Buy one snail and do this , then add accordingly. Also you mentioned your tank is only 2 months old? What size is it? There might not be enough of a food source to support all your snails?

[Jason7504]

i did drip acclimate them for about 10 minutes.. why do the lfs keep the salinity that low? my tank is about 1 month old but i have quite a bit of algae and i put some mysis shrimp in my tank after my ammonia and nitrite stayed at 0 for a bit to test if i had enough bacteria for livestock..so there is some food for the snails..i have a 34g..my nass and most of my cerith snails are alive though

[Koshmar]

Drip acclimate for longer (30 min - 1 hour), excessive yes but it would be cheaper in the long run. I had an astrea die one day out of no where, IME they are one of the more fragile snails. Though I have just thrown them in before without acclimation and they all survived. LFS usually have low or high salinity to hault disease spread or for prevention. Also, having a low salinity is cheaper than having a higher one because of the salt expense. Remember that your lfs is a business first and as such they need to cut costs when appropriate.

[SmittyCoco]

Drip acclimate for longer (30 min - 1 hour), excessive yes but it would be cheaper in the long run. I had an astrea die one day out of no where, IME they are one of the more fragile snails. Though I have just thrown them in before without acclimation and they all survived. LFS usually have low or high salinity to hault disease spread or for prevention. Also, having a low salinity is cheaper than having a higher one because of the salt expense. Remember that your lfs is a business first and as such they need to cut costs when appropriate.

 

+ a gazillion thanks for typing EXACTLY that so I didn't have 2 !

[BibleSue]

If you drip that long how do you keep the water from getting cold? They don't do well with large temp shifts either. I have not had much success with Astrea's. I stick to other snails. Mexican Turbos graze more than any snail I have seen. They are large so be sure you have enough for them to eat.

[gena]

If you drip that long how do you keep the water from getting cold? They don't do well with large temp shifts either. I have not had much success with Astrea's. I stick to other snails. Mexican Turbos graze more than any snail I have seen. They are large so be sure you have enough for them to eat.

 

 

I've had pretty good luck with astreas. What I do....I drip acclimate for an hour plus. After the drip acclimation and before I put them into the tank I float them, in the bag, in the tank. This temp. acclimates them. Haven't lost one yet.

[Jason7504]

If you drip that long how do you keep the water from getting cold? They don't do well with large temp shifts either. I have not had much success with Astrea's. I stick to other snails. Mexican Turbos graze more than any snail I have seen. They are large so be sure you have enough for them to eat.

 

mexican turbo's also can knock over corals and some rocks

[Nosey]

I'm the same, but i pore my bag with the snail and water from the LFS into a small rubbermaid container, then clip it to the inside of my tank. I then do a drip for about 45 min, then pick the snail out, and just drop him into the main.

[Jason7504]

well i checked this morning and neither my new astrea or mexican turbo has moved..what the heck!

 

my ceriths and nass are fine but now im having trouble with astrea and turbo's and they were fine when i got them from the lfs...i dripped both of them for about 20 minutes, not 15 like i said before, but are turbo's as sensitive as astreas?

[supreme_spork]

You need to compare the specific gravity of your tank vs. the LFS -- if yours is at 1.025, for example, and the LFS is at 1.021 or so, you should try acclimating your snails at a rate of .001 per hour to see if that makes a difference. As a general rule, if my water is more than .001 different than the source water I acclimate for an hour per .001.

 

My current LFS keeps their tanks at 1.026, which is the same as my tank, and I've never had a problem. A former LFS kept their tanks very low to save $$, and I lost a number of inverts when transferring.

 

You will also need to keep the temperature constant and equal to your tank during this time.

[Jason7504]

You need to compare the specific gravity of your tank vs. the LFS -- if yours is at 1.025, for example, and the LFS is at 1.021 or so, you should try acclimating your snails at a rate of .001 per hour to see if that makes a difference. As a general rule, if my water is more than .001 different than the source water I acclimate for an hour per .001.

 

My current LFS keeps their tanks at 1.026, which is the same as my tank, and I've never had a problem. A former LFS kept their tanks very low to save $$, and I lost a number of inverts when transferring.

 

You will also need to keep the temperature constant and equal to your tank during this time.

 

yup its confirmed my turbo and astrea is dead and hanging out of there shells

 

ok i will ask them what there SG is...how do i keep the temp constant if im drip acclimating for several hours?

[Jason7504]

i just called my lfs and they keep there tanks at 1.023-1.025

[supreme_spork]

yup its confirmed my turbo and astrea is dead and hanging out of there shells

 

ok i will ask them what there SG is...how do i keep the temp constant if im drip acclimating for several hours?

 

the easiest way is to clip a thin disposable plastic cup -- like one of those flimsy clear plastic dixie picnic cups, the larger size -- to the side of your tank so that the body is under the water line, and empty the bag water into that cup. let the temperature equalize for 15 minutes or so, and then use a syringe (i usually go for the 5ML kind that you get with some test kids, but you can also use an eye dropper) to remove a tiny bit of water (usually 2-5ml at a time) and replace it with a tiny bit of tank water every 10 minutes or so... it's a bit of a pain but will keep the temperature stable and will allow you to replace the water very slowly over a period of a couple hours... once the SG is identical you can just dump the snails in the tank.

 

this is overkill for a lot of people, but it will tell you definitively if the problem is with acclimation or something else.

 

EDIT: make sure to have the main tank lights off when you do this so they don't heat-up the water in the cup faster than the surrounding tank water can cool it down.

 

EDIT 2: you should also be testing their tank water yourself once you get home... just use whatever is in the bag. it's always best to do your own verification.

[Jason7504]

how do you clip the cup to your tank?

[supreme_spork]

how do you clip the cup to your tank?

 

I use a big document clip like this -- http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=...pplies-_-838056

[Shack]

Additionally, make sure your LFS doesn't have diseased snails. I had 5 snails die on me from a single LFS, and when I want back there,I saw 2 different people arguing with an employee to give them a refund for their snails, because they died. As you can tell, I am not buying snails from them again

[Jason7504]

Additionally, make sure your LFS doesn't have diseased snails. I had 5 snails die on me from a single LFS, and when I want back there,I saw 2 different people arguing with an employee to give them a refund for their snails, because they died. As you can tell, I am not buying snails from them again

[/quote

 

yeah i bought another turbo from a different lfs and im acclimating it for like 2-3 hrs and im going to get a Cu test kit tonight so i can rule them out if it still dies(but hopefully it will stay alive this time)

[PoopCola]

I just tossed my astreas in and I haven't lost one to date

 

weird

 

 

I dont think drip acclimating for hours is a good idea

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/review2

 

this is a great article to read in general

 

here is what Im talking about specifically

 

1. "I drip-acclimated my fish for XX hours just like I was told." XX can be anything from four to eight hours, sometimes more. There are only two specialized instances where acclimation times this lengthy are justified: when moving a fish from lower specific gravity to a tank that is much higher and in cases where the shipment time was in excess of 36 hours. In both of these instances, life support is maintained by aeration and keeping the temperature within range. In the case of lengthy shipments, the pH / ammonia issue must be dealt with.

 

Think about this - you have been outside without a coat, you are hypothermic, you are then given the choice of going inside and sitting by a space heater or moving into the garage to warm up just a little, and then an hour later, go into the house - your choice is? It is the same with fish and inverts - any temperature acclimation times of more than 15 minutes are useless. Temperature shock is a much rarer thing than you might think - many more fish die due to low dissolved oxygen or high ammonia while being acclimated too long for temperature (Hemdal 2006). Perhaps worry about photo-shock, pH change and specific gravity increases, but don't go overboard. Ultimately, ask yourself; what is more stressful to a fish - acclimating them in a bare Styrofoam box or bucket for five hours, or having the water parameters abruptly change, but then being able to hole up undercover in a dark cave inside a good quality aquarium to recuperate?

 

 

also

 

Dont hurt me supreme spork!

[Jason7504]

yeah but there might be a salinity difference between the lfs water and mine so i should acclimate for atleast 2 hours